What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others?

In a Europe of Regions (what will come to replace the national states) there is a place for Kashubians, Silesians, Lusatians etc.etc.etc...because you won't have to decide anymore for or against former hostile nation states....it makes sense to re-discover old roots and customs.

The coming Europe will be far more colourful and rich in heritage and at the same time more peaceful without the centuries old grievances.....

aer.eu

The US is a country of immigrants, so that everyone will have something from outside in their heritage to various degrees of mixing.

Russia has hundreds of different native ethnic groups and very few foreign ones.

Poland is slightly more complicated than it may first appear in this respect, but compared to the US and Russia, it is quite simple. Polish with a few other things thrown into the mix.


According to various calculations, my region is England, the East of England or Hertfordshire. The East of England, to me, is quite meaningless. I'm definately NOT an East Anglian.

The map you linked there shows huge differences in what constitutes a region. Scotland is just one, Belgium just two, France is divided into rather large departments, England into lots of little counties. How unfair is that! No Osiolia either.

Your "region" doesn't have to be where you live right now but which whose customs, dishes and dialect you grew up with, what means "home" for you. Local fairytales, famous people, history, the way of the people...all this stuff.

All modern nation states consist of many regions which were in earlier times quite independent and with a clear distinction to their neighbours. The need to forge a common society out of these often so different groups smothered and watered down these distinctions (sometimes forcefully) and sometimes even made them vanish, extinct. An incredible cultural loss for all of Europe!

It's time to reverse this process...

Scotland should definately be more than one. I'm sure there will be someone here to back me up on this.

I agree about the loss of diversity with the growth of power of the modern nation states. England, for example, has many different accents, even dialects, and some regions do have their own customs, traditions, cakes and so on. But a lot has already been lost.

Poland has 16 regions. Enough? Too many? Are they all in the right place? Can there be a right place if it is more about culture and customs rather than places?

cwgc.org/search/cemetery_details.aspx?cemetery=2016900&mode=1

I look forward to seeing photos of the candles you light on the graves.

Hmmm....I don't know much about Scotland but there surely are differences too...maybe between East and West? North and South? Highland and Lowlands? :)

I have no idea!

It isn't a matter of to much or to few...a region with a different dialect, different customs etc either exists or not. The people living there know best!

I think these regions are bound to places and areas though. That's where these distinctions developed and where they thrive.

For example I remember my grandmother speaking strong silesian dialect, I remember silesian dishes. That died out with her as her offspring grew up in Berlin and took on Berliner dialect and custom but when I would travel to lower Silesia I'm sure I would find those customs and dishes again....I would hate to see it dying out as a region!


This is an organization where regions voluntarily can become members to work together and strenghten their influence and develop their infrastructure etc.
It isn't complete...not every region is a member right now!

Tell me more about Osiolia...:)

BB you should visit Silesia and try their dishes. Very tasty, what is more you can try many dishes typical for eatern Poland all in all smashing majority of Silesian citizens have roots in Wilno and Lwów (thiey were expeled form there after WWII)

Regional party in uper silesia got 4% in last local elections ...

Poor sod Luki....

They were foreigners at one time too. The US isn't so much a land of immigrants anymore. It used to be. Now it's more like Russia with lots of ethnic groups. Migrations into Russia started earlier. Various invasions over the centuries were really migrations more or less, non?

I live in a part of the US that is extremely ethnically mixed and it's been said it has more ethnic groups than anywhere else on earth and most are american ethnic groups, not immigrants. Groups indigenous to this continent. Not everywhere in the US is the same.

Members of these groups keep their heritage and identify with the US at the same time. It's unsual. They are American but at the same time, not really American. Still, everyone manages to get along, more or less. It can happen. The population has to be willing. This place could be a stunning example to the rest of the world.

Native Indians, Indios....and?

I wonder what will become of the US once the balance is tipped for good and the hispanics have the absolute majority.
Till now the US is predominantly white anglo-saxon in culture, that will change.


Keeping and cherishing their heritage? Wasn't it you who would like to see everyone mixed up?

This was mostly carried out by Russians. Russia's history is one of fluctuating borders in the west and largely unchecked expansion to the east. Russians settled in lands foreign to them and Moscow turned these lands into Russia. There were movements into Russia from other parts of Europe - Jews and Germans to name probably the two largest groups, followed by a few people from countries dominated either by the Russian Empire or the USSR.

There is an interesting diversity in the ways of diversity.

...Vietnamese, Mexicans, Pakistanis, India Indians, Indonesians. I don't think I can name them all. I live near a university and people from all the world attend it because it's really inexpensive place to get an education compared to other locations in the US.

BB you must remember it was you Europeans who came and tried to destroy the native american culture. You tend to whine about people moving toEurope but you have to remember you Europeans have done a lot of harm in the world too. You never talk about the trouble you've caused when you whine about people moving into Europe, do you? Maybe you owe the world a thing or two?

They are all natives to North America??? Really interesting to hear....I take it they then emigrated from America and founded Vietnam and Pakistan later?

Nah, those are immigrants to the state, non citizens. There's lots of native tribes here and many nations. This place has soooooo many nations. You wouldn't believe it. It would probably give you a nervous breakdown, considering...lol

This reminds me of the convention of giving dates in years BP. It seems that BP means "before present", but it actually means 1950 AD (in the year of our Lord one thousand nine hundred and fifty). In what year (this is a question to BB) did things become fixed as to who is native to where?

Well...first you called Vietnames and Pakistani as


now you talk of the native indian nations.
Make up your mind girl!
And no, since I don't have to live there I won't get a nervous breakdown either...

B.B. these are nations. That is what you are going to have trouble with considering how nationalistic you are, lol. Nations inside the US. That is what each tribe is. Each tribe has a soviet, more or less. A tribal government. They are recognized by the US government as being independent nations within the borders.

They don't get their own militias or anything like that...
So, we have the state government, the county government, the city government, the tribal governments, and the Buereau of Indian Affairs that oversees the tribes.

Tons and tons of beurocracy here and stunningly we all get along ;) ;) ;) ;) ;-)
There's hope for you Europeans.

I KNOW about these nations! They ARE indigenious! Vietnamese or Pakis are NOT!
Do you get the difference at all???

Those are the immigrants. We got lots of those too ;)
We gots everyone!!!
Yes I know what you mean, but the damage has already been done by Europe...why stop?

You speak in riddles...

What I meant was, Europe pretty much had it's way with the US so what does it matter if people emigrate from Asia? For hundreds of years every disgruntled european found their way to the US. So why stop others from doing the same thing now? What would be the point? I think everyone should get to go where they want.

Another way of looking at it: every ancestor was at one time, an immigrant. Through the course of history people have moved. That's a fact. They all moved at different times. The ones who moved three thousand years ago are pissed at the ones who moved three hundred years ago. They should get over it.

He...They can clogging the US as much as they want. The US really are an immigration country, a mud pit or a melting pot if you so want.

(Even if the fact that many Americans still remember where their families came from once and still often adhere to old traditions speak against the "melting pot" ideal).

I just don't want that for european countries...

Haha, ask native americans that and they might answer differently. But there isn't much they can do about it. Europeans could be more like them. You just have to deal with emigration like the native americans did. It's just part of life.

Most native americans around here begrudgingly accept emigrants. Europeans can do the same. :D :D :D :D :D :D

Really? Na ja...maybe a life in a reservations with the money from casino licenses wouldn't be that bad....


Why should they?

European casinos. Whenever a group has trouble making money just open up a casino, works for the mob, for native americans and for Europeans too...

If that's your great new multi kulti world...thanks, but no thanks, it sucks!
I better stay nationalist and care for my heritage and the future of my people.

oh, btw, there aren't many reservations in the state I live, just one, I think. The rest are nations.

I was just reading this and wanted to share. Some of the numbers are higher than was thought within the full story. Other than this it offers first hand accounts from Polish military that survived.

Often within this post it has been questioned "What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others?" as to how our military felt about being betrayed, fighting for others in a quest to remain free and this as well as dealings with Stalin's lies about Katyn as shown.



historicaleye.com/montecass.html

This thread is still running!!

I have spent the last 10 days sampling the delights of Klusky Slanskie (sp?), Bigos and Jellied Carp (actually not so nice), whilst visiting Zakopane and Krakow. I thought I would give my final 10 cents worth on this thread before I head off for midnight mass at that big old church down the road in Czestahowa.

I have spent the last 10 days talking to Poles and this has not been a topic of debate. Most have more class. I think you will find that the vast majority of people have moved on, and do not demand apologies for a 'stab in the back' which amounts to war time politics. You've already acknowledged that Poland's woes were not cause by Britain, so why continue ot b1tch about it? Why not ask Bratwurst or a Russian poster for an apology for the rape of Poland? I have highlighted the parts of your post which indicate your personal grievance with Britain. I have done nothing. My country fought with yours during WW2 against a common foe (Germany). Unfortunately for your country, you also had a foe who was an ally of Britain. Sh1t situation? Most certainly. Could it have been avoided? Unlikely?

Continuing to cry and playing th blame game doesn't help anybody 'move on'. During WW2, Poland was bent over and f*cked by nearly everyone. I would suggest that Britain was at least 6th in line.

For that I sincerely apologise.

Merry Christmas.

Poland got recognition from us Scots :)