Poland. Sold for nothing.

Another league? Smarter than who?
If you're thinking of Schröder, who was stupid enough to take a job for Gazprom right after stepping down as Chancellor, instead of just cashing their checks, i agree? Unfortunately that scandal was conveniently covered up by your beloved Springer Presse and a few weeks later nobody cared 2 hoots about it.

Merkel herself is not clever, but very cautious and first and foremost an excellent reader, not even speaker. Links? Google "Erblastentilgungsfonds" or "Brutto Netto".

I actually had the longer history in mind with Poland falling deeply after their golden age, getting partitioned and even vanishing form the map....that was not necessary.

Also wanting to brawl with the Nazis, thinking the french and brits will come and get their nuts out of the fire should the need be ("In one week in Berlin!")

Now again during the last years setting on Bush to gain some advantages but now again left hanging out to dry....all not very smart and not really necessary.

And yes Merkel is smart or she wouldn't even had made it to chancellor.
She is juggling an impossible coalition for some years now, presents Germany and her interests quite well internationally without getting in any war because of her skill to listen and to negotiate, makes Germany look good etcetcetc...

independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/merkel-named-most-powerful-woman-in-world-again-911891.html


What an "unsmart" woman...


But with that you are right...she isn't big in talking, rhetoric, posturing, chest beating, throwing tantrums, she doesn't even look like a model etc.

She prefers the quiet, friendly tones, prefering objective, businesslike policy, compromises, cooperation instead of antagonism...how stupid of her!



Yes, this lady is in a league of her own!

You must be kidding! Where do you find that stuff?
I guess, the Poles where also responsible for the "Reichskristallnacht" and for the "Gleiwitz incident"?

Well..I didn't say that...but the german/polish quarrel didn't start with Gleiwitz and you must be fairly new to this board if you don't have an idea about the long discussions we already had here.

Why don't you go through the archives?

Did you know that Poland denied the Germans even a railway connection to Danzig, feeling safe behind the french/british promises? Was that smart?

bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/countdown_390831_thur_01.shtml


So not smart!

Didn't they have the right to do so? It was supposed to be a "Free City" afterall.

Danzig had 98 percent german citizens who found themselves made homeless by the Treaty of Versailles...Poles around them threatening them "Become polish or leave".

They wanted (rightfully) back into Germany or at least a good connection.

Didn't they have the right to do so?

Dude, that's called selective reading.

Edit:


Just another pretext. And if Poland agreed to that they would have been overrun in days.
The people had actually an excellent connection by boat, but it's difficult to bring in troops by boat.

Just quoting...
But even Poles will tell you that the promises made by France and GB emboldened Warsaw to be uncompromising and not even trying to negotiate honest german questions.

Even spouting crap like "In one week in Berlin" and such...

Would Hitler had invaded anyhow if Poland had tried to negotiate? I don't know...maybe yes, but purposely antagonizing such a neighbour and trusting far away foreign countries with your safety instead is never "smart"!


Well..it wasn't difficult for the german army to bring troops without the corridor...they didn't need that for the invasion!

hmm interesting views, wonder how many historians share it

LOL That is an oxymoron.

contrary to Poles everything Germans did before and during the war was smart, perhaps bar losing of the war

sorry - even losing of the war by Germans was smart

Heeey...our conspiracy fan is back! :)

Looked under your bed for Germans and or Russians already?


Why?
It was a honest german concern which was important for many Germans...


Well..I don't think you read the posts I did or you would be know by now that I
included german politicians!

But that seems to hard for a smart kid like you, right?

Don't forget the closet...surely a Russian is hiding in there...or maybe a German bought your whole house already??? Better take another look...

by the way Bratwurst what are your views of the Gleiwitz incident

Poland simply could not accept ceding the corridor to Germans. It would cease to be independent state.

About Gleiwitz, surely with free internet and independent journalists people would have looked through that manouver soon.
But the time wasn't that developed and the relationships between us was already such that we could believe the worst...


Well...and what did you got instead?

Of course you could have made a corridor...they only asked for a railway.
But then, you are so paranoid you would even feel threatened by a railway...no surprise here!

I think Polish doubted honesty of German proposals.

Another factor is Poland had it's military alliance with France. If Germans would turn against France Poland should attack on the other front. (and Polish military rather would fullfill their treaty obligations in such case) So yielding to German demands in the wake of September 39 would open serious questions whether Poland should furthermore stick to the alliance with the French or back from it. I guess there was at this point (British guarantees etc) decision made already we stick to French alliance. So yielding to German demands then would not stop further demands from German side cause Hitler's plan was to beat the French before going for Russia (we know it now - their logic has been different definitely but there was a feeling these would not be the last demands by Germans). If there were still Franco-Polish alliance in place after Poland gave in to the demands Germany would still have no choice but to fight and eliminate Poland from the play.

Only Polish abandoning the military alliance with France would change things. And it would mean some form of accepting German curatele and giving away certain amount of sovereignity perhaps some territory (and people were quite touchy on that) Even if it is wholy possible on paper it would have been much against the feelings of the nation. In a way Polish policy makers gave in to the moods in the society. But they have been considerably responsible for creating these moods before.

It was a ****** time in our both history, period!
And no German wants a rerun...what about you?

Poland sold itself out by releasing Podolski. Many are unhappy here in Gliwice, his city of birth, because he wasn't looked after properly. Just like when Lewandowski pulled the guy down for a penalty (which led to hatred of Howard Webb), they let him slip from their grasp. Mishandling of the situation both times.

Yes, it was a light penalty and Podolski wanted to leave too but still....look inwards!

Another "Gleiwitz incident"?

I don't think anyone reasonable in Poland think we are so very very important and so all powerful. My view is there are lot of Poles who consider surrendering to 'greater powers', conforming etc, reasonable (while I personally don't think it is reasonable as a rule). There are more Poland and Polishness loathers in Poland than anywhere in the world.

What makes you think so?

My own experience.

Another? You mean beyond when the Nazis dressed up as members of the Polish army and then proceeded to slaughter them?

Well...another...as in "not the same"...you know?
Did dressed up Germans slaughter Poles to get Podolski???


What experience?
You must have come to know many of those peoples...how? And where?
And what is their reasoning?

Poland got caught out there :(

it is enough to go to Polish chats or political forums Bratwurst

well they are in the defensive somewhat now btw

Come on gumi...give me more than just some foggy, mysterious hints.
What are these people? What to they want? And why???

That reminds me about your statement about Germans buying out Poland...when I ask for clarification you bring nothing...that is not enough for a serious discussion!

It is not done for free, EU will receive discount through gas transportation that will cover all your expenses + interest, BB - you are welcome!


What is irrational about it? If your enemy has air for breathing and you need it to survive, but he demands to sit and sh*t on your head in exchange, is he a friend? This is so German - inability to think through!

I believe it when I see it!
The Ukraine is broke, the generous EU will most likely never demand anything very seriously, not wanting to throw the Ukraine in the abyss...


Well...trying to antagonize the only one who keeps you breathing is "smart" yes? And you have thought it through thoroughly, yes? And you still think it's a good idea???

Oh and if the one who keeps you breathing still lets you live and makes sure you stay alive even after and during so much antagonizing is a real "horrible" enemy, is he!

Hopefully you will never get a worse enemy!

The German Army in Moscow...we made it...after more than 50 years....finally!

BB while Germany is the strongest economy in Europe its 'not' essential for its development, you're overlplaying Germanys role in Europe, a lot.

I actually meant the Russians and their energy resources, so did Nathan! :)

...at least I think so because till now Germany AND Poland are dependent on Russia for their gas mainly....but some Poles still talk about Russia as if they were their worst enemy ever..