Daffy and Donald aka Lech and Jarosław Kaczyński together on tape, thoughts?

this is pretty funny. What went so wrong after this? ;) ;)

they were abducted by aliens?

I don't know Seanus - are Kaczynskis this unpalatable for the Westerners - what do you actually know about them - not just what you are being served by some international media? - they may have their wrongs and bads but still they are not half as cynical as Mr Tusk and his school

I was joking in a way. Lech puts Poland's case really well abroad. He was forthright in his presentation with Obama and I think he isn't afraid to speak his mind. Jarosław, well, he had the decency to stall on the missile shield.

maybe I am not following the thing closely enough but I think you got it all wrong - it was Tusk who tried to ruthlessly bargain with the US (even risking reaching any agreement) - from the prospective he might have been right with the new administration bound to land in Washington and not that enthusiastic about the project (with the credit crunch unwinding)

The Kaczynski's get a bad press in liberal europe because they defend Polish values.. the right not to promote homosexuality and abortion as just a "normal" event are such examples.

They are far from perfect but they speak for the silent decent majority...

Sad that so many get fooled by the western press, even worse that Poland is being dragged into the morally bankrupt age... when drugs, prostitution and the desertion of family values are acceptable.

Nope, Jarosław was involved in negotiations too but wasn't as keen as Tusk. He was holding out for the best deal but Tusk jumped on in. The Kaczyńskis had more reservations but still were broadly pro.

I wonder where do you get your info from Sean - it is not that I dismiss your ability to follow Polish politics - but you must have misunderstood something - or I missed out a lot (which I doubt)

Like what? The discussions were ongoing and Jarosław was a part of them. Lech is still pushing Obama for an alternative to the shield. What's your point? I know what I read and I read widely.

you read your news in polish, seanus?

Polish Morals, i think i'd call that religious crap actually :)

^^ yeah man.

Yeah sure they defend polish values, they wage war when somebody calls them a potato.. they are little schemers with giant egos and they are cultivating dity politics, war mongering, and forging false arguments against their enemies.

All the "defending" polish values by critisizing homosexuality and abortion is just a facade to get more voters. Nothing more.

I read some news in Polish, why?

how do you know? - by consulting your broad imagination??? hehehe

That's easy, they do things that they need to do to get more power even if they are doing something that stands against their outlook and policies. Example: fraternising with dodgy lot, people like Lepper or Giertych and their parties although these people were everything that was contrary to Kaczyński's policies - thugs, cons and neonazis. Why did they lost the trust of voters, exactly because of that, I know few people who were into PiS but after all that they changed their party, after watching blokes such as Ziobro spouting lies just to make some more media hype.

:)
I'm not saying I'm against everything what PiS has done, but I think the party would need another leader. I actually liked Dorn... but I guess he was to open minded for PiS..

hmmm - can you be more specific?

No they dont which is why PiS lost, please stop making stuff up.


Kaczyński gets bad press abroad AND in Poland because they're rude, propose no solutions and whenever questioned about their incompetence they become confrontational.


How about you stop manipulating people, i've got 2 master degrees i'm politically active beyond just voting and i daresay that a vegetable like you is more likely to be fooled then someone like me, just because i oppose something doesnt make me an easily deceivable fool, maybe i take competent people above political wh0res spouting slogans.

Kaczynscy have one primary motor and thats desire for power for powers sake, yes they try to defend Polish interests but they do this so clumsily they actually damage them and no they dont stand for any values, if euthanasia and abortion would get them elected they'd go with them.

They're more honest then PO but that doesnt make them honest people just smaller liars (pun intended).

for instance the famous doctor G case, during few interviews he was stating that man's not gonna kill again although there were no clear evidence that he is guilty of a murder. All at all, these charges were dropped. And Ziobro's got accused later of compromising personal goods by Doctor G.

(I'm not trying to defend that doc. He is still accused of other things but not of murder).
Anyways whole investigation and trial was started mainly to show how the new toy of Kaczynscy the CBA is important - it turned out that it was all a joke.

He was also accused by many politicians of lieing, especially in Blida's case, in few lower house commision trials he attended ( these trials are usually a parody, a show and a way for a politician to get some voters ) he was always the shiniest star. Although a tad far fetched it says something about a politician.

Beside that he was accused by few other people ( usually of false accusation or slander, from what I know there are few court cases against him right now )...

Come on if somebody is clean as a whistle he doesn't have so many court cases. The only positive thing about him is that he was the hope for law students, he was trying to break the lawyer mafia. So younger lawyers and law students could have an easier start.

Polish verb zabić - does not necesarily mean to murder frd - so the thing was perhaps gross exaggeration but not a blatant lie, doctor G refused to operate a couple of people for no financial 'share' from their side as well as did not do proper treatment in some cases for the same reason.

you must have heard of Mr Kaczmarek - imagine most of his colleagues are as truthful as he is - do you take his colleagues word as a good coin contrary to what Ziobro says - I don't know the Blida's case this well (not the pre-arrest proceedings) - I can imagine that Ziobro was trying to arrange things so that there was massive medial coverage - but it does not instantly constitute a criminal act - if you look for Polish politicians who lie - they all lie - some however have some public interest in mind (so doing wrong thing to advance a good cause - which is after all not a way to go) while others just their own - this is in my perception the gravest difference between PiS and most other parties (I know that especially now PiS lack intelectual brilliance - and it is for the most part the fault of Kaczyński)


- you must be joking - every other Polish politician almost instanly sues anyone who says anything not favourable of him/her ESPECIALLY if there is some substance to it (relates to some facts) - you should've already noticed that staying this long in Poland

I know one thing - the outcome of the court case. Mr Ziobro lost big time. I guess the court know the only proper version of word zabić.


I agree. But I can't agree with PiS being any different than the others. I'm pretty sure all these parties have their share of wrong doing liers.


I am not joking. Most politicans know how to control their emotions. Those who are not have to pay the price.

don't tell me about Polish courts - I have read about the Supreme Court verdicts that contradict plain logic (guess what in a political case) - as if courts in Poland are run by cristal, unbiased people with no interest conflicts, no dirt behind their nails etc - this is actually the main obstacle to making this country a civilised one

Maybe in case of your average Kowalski, but not in Politicans cases - when Ziobro had his trials his mates from PiS would have noticed any offence that could have occured, they would have publicise it... nothing happaned therefore I reckon that the trial was fair.

But I'm all with you on unfair justice system for an average polish citizen. All those codices have various flaws - that allow people to break law without being punished.

Dubious educational claims dont make your waffle any superior... that you have to call people childish names says it all really.

A sad waste of an education

So do I. But I'm not really politically active. Only if the issue at hand is interesting to me. For the rest I'm bored pretty easily.

M-G (thinks it's time now that the Polish president signs the ratification of the Lisbon Treaty like he promised he would. In fact, Tusk publicly said he would do so swiftly)

I will however "call you names" if you attempt to sell political convictions as result of manipulation, thats manipulation on your own accord.

Kaczyńscy damaged our relations which just about everyone and that alone is enough to burn them, the sad theme in Poland is that whenever backward clowns like you meet someone who disaproves of their political views or supports a different party you parrot "you have been manipulated into it".

Respect peoples political convictions not matter how retarded they are and if you cant then come up with viable argument instead of parroting Kaczyńscy who claimed they lost not because they were a sad excuse of a politician but because the nation has been manipulated.


I'm against the Lisbon treaty but at this point we dont have much choice, problem is Tusk doesnt speak for Kaczyński even if he claims he does, hopefully the fugly duckling will do something right for once.

Really? When Mr Tusk say that he and his party support the Lisbon treaty, it means that they will support it. Kaczynskis were unable to keep clear stance. Their endless messing is disgusting.


But of course you don't waste an opportunity to vote at every occasion? Typical democrat! :)


I'm about 99% sure that he always supported constitution. All this mess just to gain some EU-sceptical votes. This guy is a disaster at every issue I can think about.