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Worrying observation about Polish attitudes to lying and cheating


Janf  
19 Nov 2006 /  #1
I should start by making the declaration that I am half Polish and this observation is made by someone that has grown up in England.

I have observed over the last few years of living in Poland that from a very early age children in Poland are quite often actually encouraged to lie and cheat. This is seen by most as completely normal way of getting good results at school and keeping up with the neighbours. The Polish people are very touchy about the whole subjet of honesty given that they are a catholic nation but this grounding in deceipt therefore runs very deep. It actually to me makes my netral attitude to Religion much more negative and cynical. It also has taken alot of shine off my built in pride of 'being part polish' that I grew up with.

Can anyone challenge this observation or convince me I have read it all wrong...??
Arien  
19 Nov 2006 /  #2
well, I have lied about some big things before. but never cheated. I guess some people just lie for various reasons, and because I used to do it, I think it's easier to forgive others when they do it. depends on the reasons and consequences.

not justifying anything, but poverty is a good reason to lie. where I come from, it's sometimes better to bluff and lie than to end up in the hospital. that's just how it is when your neighbourhood isn't exactly upper-class.

but in general, I think it's ridiculous to say that someone from poland is more or less of a liar than any other nationality. I'm not too fond of religion and church myself, but I don't think it's right to say lying has something to do with religion?

my two cents. :)
BubbaWoo 33 | 3,510  
19 Nov 2006 /  #3
the biggest and most hurtful lie i have ever been told was by an EX-polish girlfriend... stupid cow
Arien  
19 Nov 2006 /  #4
well, basically, I always thought some lies wouldn't hurt people. now I know better. but I agree that lying about love (cheating etc.) is probably the worst thing you could do to someone.

my polish girlfriend - was only calling and writing her, her friend (my friend.) tried to couple us. set a date to meet her. - she told me she loved me, told me things about brothers she didn't have. jobs she didn't do. later, my friend found out even her name - the one she told me - was fake..

so thank you andrea. :) she destroyed my trust. shame I ended up doing the same to someone else which I regret.

but hey, bubbawoo, do you have someone else already? (before I say more silly things.) :)
BubbaWoo 33 | 3,510  
19 Nov 2006 /  #5
but hey, bubbawoo, do you have someone else already? (before I say more silly things.)

dont worry mate... this was in the days of way back...

do i have someone else...? nah... very happily single...:)
Arien  
19 Nov 2006 /  #6
alright, if you're happy, that's what counts. :) just wondering if she made you feel so down that you gave up already or something.

we don't want that. :)
OP Janf  
19 Nov 2006 /  #7
No you didnt understand. The religous connection is to say that how can a nation that prides itself on its catholic religion be so ambivalent about their children cheating at school ?

(as long as that family turns up to church each week they must be good people)

When commenting as a Polish person please tell me honestly whether (in your experience) it is common for children to cheat at tests in school. I can honestly say that (in my experience) it is very very rare in England.I can also say that my parents would have been very ashamed if I had.

Your main perception of what is wrong and right is based on your parents.So it cannot be ridiculous that this can have an effect.

You also didnt get the point that I want to be convinced that I am wrong on this.
Arien  
19 Nov 2006 /  #8
No you didnt understand. The religous connection is to say that how can a nation that prides itself on its catholic religion be so ambivalent about their children cheating at school?

I do understand, but to say they are all so ambivalent about their children at school is not a fact, and is a generalising statement.

When commenting as a Polish person please tell me honestly whether (in your experience) it is common for children to cheat at tests in school. I can honestly say that (in my experience) it is very very rare in England.

I'm dutch, well, I know enough girls and guys from england who cheated on their gcse's I'm sorry, same goes for some of my old classmates..

Your main perception of what is wrong and right is based on your parents.So it cannot be ridiculous that this can have an effect.

partly, if you get caught up with the wrong people and you've done something you know your parents wouldn't forgive you, then you wouldn't tell your parents everything would you?

anyway, I think you get my point, parents are an example through childhood that much is very true, but if you're fair you would admit that even when you hit puberty you've been perhaps a bit mischievious and naughty sometimes?

haven't we all been? my point, you can't put people in categories. everyone makes decisions and mistakes on their own account at some point.

from my personal experience, the polish don't cheat more or less than other nationalities.

(and I think I've been around hundreds and understand enough polish to follow certain conversations.)

convinced or not? hope you are, because to me it makes sense. :)
BubbaWoo 33 | 3,510  
19 Nov 2006 /  #9
didnt misunderstand... just went off on a tangent... :)

it is common for children to cheat at tests in school.

yeah... i agree that it is perhaps unusual for brits to cheat at school/uni but having taught in a number of countries... and taught even more nationalities... i can say that this most certainly isnt the case for a lot of countries...

italians, for example, are some of the worst cheats i have ever met... in fact cheating is a matter of pride... so is pulling one over on someone... in english, the fox is seen as a sly animal and has negative connatations... in italian... forbo - fox - has a very different meaning... is there a catholic connection... probably....

the chinese - and i dont like to generalise... but - plagerise like there is no tomorrow... and get really upset when you point out to them that the bit of work they have asked me to mark is written in perfect english and therefore cant possibly be theirs... does this disprove the catholic connection.... probably

You also didnt get the point that I want to be convinced that I am wrong on this.

apart from the dirty towrag girlfriend who thought i was stupid enough to believe her stories i havent had much, if any experience of lying and cheating in poland... but i keep hearing stories... which worries me at times...
OP Janf  
19 Nov 2006 /  #10
It helps.
I know it is wrong to generalise but the facts as regards percentages are worrying to me. I know people who have cheated in tests at school but they are rare. In Poland from the teenagers I speak with it is rare for people not to...... That is a very different set of standards across a nation.

Therefore I conclude that this has to effect the people of percentage that feel it is acceptable to lie and cheat. To play it down as something you grow out of I think is a get out clause. Or are you saying that in England we just catch up with cheating later :)

Bubba - I feel happier that I have found a person to worry alongside. :)
Worrying is great when shared :)

No NO NO I want to be convinced I have it all wrong
kryzs  
19 Nov 2006 /  #11
Can anyone challenge this observation or convince me I have read it all wrong...??

Let me try.

Everyones in every country wants better than there Neighboor.
Regardless of where there born or who they worship. ( see Borat )

But seriously. Many people want more then there neighboor .
The kids see this lieing and cheating by there parents.
So this is what they learn to do.
Kidds are like sponges. So think about it.

If you walk around the house swearing and caring on about something in front of your kids .
what do you think there going to do.

It does not matter if your Black or White. It does not matter if you speak polish ,french, english. Romanian, russian.
it makes no difference.

It just matters what your neighboor has and how you can get something better.
So some people will lie cheat and steal to do better.

And then theres people who could care less what the neighboor has, And they will teach there kids not to be like the neighboor. Not to worry about the expensive car or whatever.

It all depends on you . It depends on yoyu as a human being to teach your kids from right and wrong . To teach them what is important .

It has nothing to do with religion.

It has to do with you. You are what they look up to.
There are many atheist, who teach there kids from right and wrong.
There are catholics who do the same .
there are christians who do the same
there are mouslams who do the same.
You name it and there out there somewhere.

So just do what you feel is right , Don't blame the kids , blame the parents.
The blame the religion . Blame your self.

peace out
BubbaWoo 33 | 3,510  
19 Nov 2006 /  #12
No NO NO I want to be convinced I have it all wrong

yeah me too...

... sometimes polish people just confuse the bejeezus out of me...
kryzs  
19 Nov 2006 /  #13
The blame the religion . Blame your self

It was to say

Don't blame religion , Blame yourself.
OP Janf  
19 Nov 2006 /  #14
What about you women ? no comments to add on this one or are you all busy checking your Polish Boyfriends mobile :)

Well the link into Catholism seems to be hitting the nerves. Please explain to me how so many catholics find acceptable for their children to lie ?? I can almost forgive them lying because we all get corrupted but please at least try to keep your children free for a while...
ola123  
19 Nov 2006 /  #15
Well the link into Catholism seems to be hitting the nerves. Please explain to me how so many catholics find acceptable for their children to lie ?? I can almost forgive them lying because we all get corrupted but please at least try to keep your children free for a while...

Why do you post this question on this forum. Do you think that every Pole is a catholic? Do you mean that protestants or muslims can cheat? It has nothing to do with religion or nationality.
OP Janf  
19 Nov 2006 /  #16
I guess it is because I was brought up a catholic and therefore am fighting to keep faith in that religion. My point which is being lost is that as an example of a religion it demonstrates alot.

I think that over 94% of Poles at the last count classed them selves in the faith so it may be pretty relevent.
Amathyst 19 | 2,702  
19 Nov 2006 /  #17
I personally dont like lies, liers always get caught out...like the time I said I was staying at a friends but really went clubbing (at 15 my parents really didnt think it was acceptable to do) so my father made damn sure I knew what the consequences of lying were....the bruises took several days to fade and I learnt quick that lying wasnt an option...my clubing days were short lived at 15!

Basically liers and cheats are always found out because they trip up on lies...

Im not saying I havent told a couple of white lies along the way through life (phoning in work sick after going on a bender the night before - I say Ive been sick, I was I just didnt tell them the whole truth to why I was sick), that would be a lie!

As for cheating in exams, the only person you are cheating is yourself...whats the point..

A survey was taken about how many people lie on their c.v. again whats the point...
kryzs  
19 Nov 2006 /  #18
Well the link into Catholism seems to be hitting the nerves. Please explain to me how so many catholics find acceptable for their children to lie ??

I don't know . When I lied to my mom or dad and they caught me .

It was ass whipping time....
OP Janf  
19 Nov 2006 /  #19
:) :) :)
well that then brings us onto leather belt fetishes
kryzs  
19 Nov 2006 /  #20
leather belt fetishes

Sorry . No ones timing me up for any time of leather belt action....
OP Janf  
19 Nov 2006 /  #21
:)

I wasnt offering to get you in trouble by receiving swollen goods HONESTLY as a full blooded masculine heterosexual englishman
miranda  
19 Nov 2006 /  #22
What about you women ? no comments to add on this one or are you all busy checking your Polish Boyfriends mobile

OOOOO - no - some women carefully read what some intelligent men write
OP Janf  
19 Nov 2006 /  #23
I wanted to prompt a valued opinion. (Probably not very subtlely I concede).
We only have one brain receptor you have several.
We see one focused view you see all round the subject.
miranda  
19 Nov 2006 /  #24
When commenting as a Polish person please tell me honestly whether (in your experience) it is common for children to cheat at tests in school. I can honestly say that (in my experience) it is very very rare in England.I can also say that my parents would have been very ashamed if I had.

You are right. There is no reasonable explanation for that. Majority of Polish catholics seem to think that they don't have to implement church ideas in public life. It's almost like 2 separate states. Weird and not logical.

Some ppl here will diagree but that will just prove my point.
OP Janf  
19 Nov 2006 /  #25
Thank you - but please give me arguments against my case. Remember I so want to be wrong here.
Arien  
19 Nov 2006 /  #26
why not do a survey? do we have poll options in the near future? should really think about implementing them! you gotta love polls! :)
OP Janf  
19 Nov 2006 /  #27
who would Police the policies on polish polls for polished results?
Its late I gotta go sleep . I knwo it when I try to get funny.
miranda  
19 Nov 2006 /  #28
Remember I so want to be wrong here.

Well - I cannot help you here.
You either want to find out the truth or to be RIGHT/WRONG. The latter - I guess.

Any chance for changing you avatar - it actually freaks me out:)
OP Janf  
19 Nov 2006 /  #29
i will tommorow . Thank you for making me smile . I will leave on that note :) goodnight
krysia 23 | 3,057  
19 Nov 2006 /  #30
About cheating in schools in Poland. I've been to 4 different school in Poland and cheating was wrong. During an exam, the teacher would walk around the class and watch everyone. that doesn't mean they don't cheat, because they do.

A funny thing about cheating. By the time you write down all the needed answers on your cheat-sheet , you have spent so much time creating it and have learned so much from it, that by the time you want to cheat, you find out you already know the answers.

Another reason why they cheat: level of education is much higher compared to the US and grades are very important, so students cheat because they are afraid of their parents and others who might think they are stupid.

In the US grades are also important, but it's no big deal if you have a weaker grade. You just go to Sylvian institute or have a tutor.

Or the teachers say the student needs drugs for ADD, which is another subject all together.

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