What really represents Polish people? What would be the symbol of Poland...

Because I wasn't talking to 1jola. You were.


I only asked if you really meant "bigotry" when referring to Black Madonna.
It wasn't about the typo, it was about the use of a word which was not
suitable and could be considered derogatory.


At least we can agree on that :)

Polish women represent Poland people.I think you've got it all.

And kielbasa.

Our soldiers

• 
  800pxKarpac.jpg
  
• 
  221il.jpg
  
• 
  BTv8g2B2kKGrHgo.jpg
  
• 
  BVEcooQmkKGrHgo.jpg
  

The 4 cornered hat

• 
  100NIKONDSCN3462_DS.jpg
  
• 
  001polpiech394hh.jpg
  
• 
  004kavof3hz.jpg
  

Surely not one element, representative, physical object, memory, person or sign represents Poland, it has to be a mixture of them all

I got it... thanks to everybody! That was helpful =) but if you have other ideas, you're very welcome to write ;)

I haven't read any Pole say here that it wasn't representative of our nation. Even a Polish atheist or Jew would agree. Catholic religion has been and is very much part of our culture.


Can we see it?

When your design is complete, would you be good enough to scan it & post it here? I'd love to see it. Thx.

I don't think that religious symbols are a good representation of Poland. Poland has been a "Catholic country" since WWII - before the war it was quite a multicultural state. Also, not all famous people considered symbols of Poland were catholic, e.g. Mikołaj Rej (Calvinist), Maria Skłodowska-Curie (atheist), and, of course, many Polish Jews. Poland was one of the few countries that were religiously tolerant: while other countries had religious wars, Jews, Hussites, Arians and others settled in Poland to escapes persecution. Therefore using a Catholic symbol as a symbol of Poland would be ignoring Polish history and contribution of non-catholics into Polish culture.

I also think that regional symbols are not a good choice. Highlanders are cool, but they only live in a very limited area and have nothing to do with most of Poles. For someone living in a city in central Poland, highlander culture is something alien. Using folklore as symbol of Poland was very popular during the times of communism, because communism was supposed to be for the folk, but I don't think it really represents Poland. First of all, there are very little people who consider folk culture as their 'natural' culture in which they live (Polish folk culture is now rather an exotic thing for Poles), and second, in the past it was limited to peasants and had little contact with the rest of Polish culture (Romantic period and Młoda Polska is an exception here). Again - this is something that cannot represent a country as a whole.

And the eagle - well, that's connected with the legend about founding Poland - so it can be viewed as something common. Even Polish Jews lived on the land of descendants of Lech.

The flag would be a good start. Red and white is like krew i wolność, blood and freedom.

Are you talking about the same multicultural Poland in both sentences?
How is the Polish eagle representative of Ukrainians, Latvians or Germans?

I'm not much of a religious type but I'd still think that religious symbols. Black Madonna comes to mind and it does have serious Eastern Orthodox ties and it could be easily used to represent Poland throughout history.

Also, RC religion marks the beginning of Poland, offers moral support for Poland's many struggles throughout its history (Defense of Czestochowa, Solidarity movement to name the most striking examples). You would have found religious symbols pretty much anywhere in Poland for the last 1000 or so years, while the eagle was a symbol used mainly by the nobles, and then only by some. For most of Poland's history Poles gathered around religious symbols, not around coats of arms. That came later, probably around the end of the 17th century but before that, and on that level, loyalty to non-religious symbols was very local.

Dear anubis,
I cannot promise that it will be soon though: Poland is not the only one I'm doing! =)

a beetroot

Poland has been a "Catholic country" since its very beginning as the nation, ever since Mieszko was baptised in 966, this event was also known as the baptism of Poland and nothing has changed ever since. For you to state otherwise is just false. People of other faiths lived in Poland and were free to practice their religion including Jews. This fact shows us that it's not the religion itself that causes the tensions but the intolerant people who just can't stand the fact that someone, somewhere might be of a different opinion then themselves. This holds true to the people of faith as well as those that do not practice any religion. As far as I know atheists consist of a very small percentage of Polish population. Although you're obviously of a different opinion the fact remains that the majority of people will disagree with you and state that religious symbol is appropriate to represent Poles therefore Poland itself, especially the image of MB Częstochowskiej. As for Poland being almost a 100% Catholic after WWII you have no one else to blame but yourself. Allow me to explain. In your zeal and vigour to impose the communist utopia, it was the communist atheists that have shifted the borders, forced resettlement on local populations ensuring that only one ethnicity and one religion exists.

The practice of the coronation of the image of NMP started in Italy with Hieronim Paolucci in 1620.
Mary of Częstochowa is a Queen of Poland for a very long time. The coronation of the image took place in 1717. Ever since than till WWII, there were 196 other coronations of the image that took place in Poland giving an average of 1 every 1.16 years. After WWII there were only three such events, one in 1981, 1985 and 1995. As you can see for yourself Poland was very tolerant nation in terms of practising one's religion indeed till WWII. After the atheists took over all that has stopped and this practice was only allowed at the end of their stay in power, after the Solidarity movement, when it finally dawned on them that the majority don't share their ideology and simply oppose them and their days are numbered. During this period you will find many examples of the religious symbols used as the symbol of solidarity, opposition and like it or not of Poland. Do you think the Black Madonna image on the gates to the shipyard was there just for decoration? The wooden cross that stood on the spot that the first fatality of the 1970 strike took place in front of the gate to the shipyard with a sign “Walka o wolność... Gdy się raz zaczyna, dziedzictwem z ojca przechodzi na syna. Sto razy wrogów, złamana plagą, skończy zwycięstwem…” What was it doing there? Was it not a powerful political symbol? Representing those that believed in Catholic faith and those that did not alike? These are just two of the most recent examples. Religious symbols were always used by the Poles throughout our history.

Yes Polish Jews lived and still live in the land where Our Lady of Częstochowa reigns supreme as Queen of Poland, be it prior to WWII or even after WWII. Although you think that religious symbols are not a good choice, the majority of people will disagree with you. There is no such thing as 100% agreement on anything, that sort of thing only happens in communism. Not everyone has to agree on something or someone to be still represented by them, therefore whoever wins the election by majority has the right to represent the country as a whole, he represents all, the ones that voted for him as well as those that opposed him. Even during the Polish multicultural state somehow it was all so obvious to all those Catholics, Calvinists, Atheists, Jews and others, that if they give their neighbour the freedom to practice their faith they will extend the same courtesy to the people of other faith and unbelievers alike. The problems start when minority wants to impose their will on majority, not just on religious issues but all other social issues as well.

Its white & red - not the other way around ;)

Dear Piorun,

of course, you are totally right that about the fact that what the majority thinks is the symbol that should be used... it's just that I'mj doing a research on culture and religion is important, but it's even above culture... it's important, but something different... that's the reason why I don't really want to use it. It's not the most appropriate, as kielbasa is not very appropriate... you could thinik of Poland and Polish people when you think of it... but it's not the most important thing about Poland... it's not really communicating the spirit of Poland, the value of POlish people... you know what I mean?

By the way... if I wanted to use the eagle as a symbol or as one of the symbols... do I need a legal permission for that? Does it have a copyrighht protection or its public domain? Does anybody know?

No copyrights.
About the only limitation is desecration of Poland's national symbols.

Look, I'm not suggesting you should use a religious symbol as a symbol of Poland, that would be preposterous. That certainly was not my intention. Personally I would not use one either, there are plenty of other symbols to choose from that are far more suitable for that sort of purpose. I was merely explaining that it's not unheard of. My comments were in response to Switeziankas post. I'm sure you will make an appropriate choice. I just have one small request - share it with us.

Let's compromise : )

When Mieszko got baptised, there was no definite division between Catholicism, Orthodox Christianity and Protestantism. He was baptised simply as a Christian.


A lot has changed: there was the Great Schism, Reformation, Union of Brest, the territory of Poland changed and started incorporating lands with Orthodox population (still, around Białystok there's a lot of Orthodox Christians), assimilated Jews started speaking Polish and contributing to Polish culture (like Tuwim), not Jewish (like Singer). A lot of stuff

happened since 966...


The legend is about founding the first Polish town, Gniezno - out of which the state later emerged. The Eagle is representative of the land and the state, so it can be representative of every Polish citizen.