Well, noone cares about your opinion nor your respect.
You deserve it! A nice Polish person is better than a nasty Irish person in my view...
If you`d take out the inter war period and the last 17 years then we had this situation only for some 200 years, before that it looked quite different. And communism, though I`m strongly against it, wasn`t that bad to live in to even think about comparing it with the life during WWII.
No but the point is that Poland has been held back. Not allowed to develop under her own steam. Communism by definition is completely against this. It destroys any desire for someone to try to better themselves. If everyone is supposed to be equal and everyone is supposed to have an equal share then nobody needs to work harder than anyone else... I don't believe any system is fool proof and all systems fail the people. At the heart of it Communism is a good idea but it does'nt work. The truth is that some people seem to be more equal than others... I'm sure all the boys running the country were not short of any money for themselves? Jesus Christ was the first communist. At least that is the message he preached. I have no love of the Capitalist world either but i would say that living under communism was bad. Any system that lies and keeps truth from the people by shielding them from the outside world has to be bad. If Poland had not have suffered Stalin and the USSR then Poland would now be at least 20 years ahead of where it is now. Europe has a lot to answer for. Ireland has had to drag itself up from similar circumstances. We did not suffer communism but we did suffer a dictator. Dictators suck the lifeblood from a country. Take their resources and export them back to create employment in the mother country. We suffered terrible unemployment during 1950's - 1980's. This was the aftermath after getting independence. This is much the same as what Poland is having now after the fall of communism. As a nation we know how it is to be poor and on the wrong side of the door. This situation for Poland is only a phase. Unemployment is high, 22% i believe. This will not last forever.If Poles need to migrate to other countries for work then that is what they have to do. Poland is a member of the EU and that is their right. The Irish emigrated to the USA and Britain. During the years of the Famine (1846 - 1848) we had 4 million die and emigrate to these countries. We had no choice. it was either that or die. If Ireland must now return that favour to another country then i feel humbled to receive them. Poles work hard and have a good reputation here. Bigots would do well to keep their mouths shut. Perhaps it is they that are looking at things through rose tinted glasses. Since they have never been forced to up and leave their homes, families and friends just so they could find work!
No but the point is that Poland has been held back.
I agree 100% - but the problem under communism was not that people didn`t had money - cose under communism all people had money - and the difference in wealth between the government/pary members and the rest was minimal - the problem was the availability of products... Just imagine - you have the money, but you can choose to buy only 3-4 kind of cars for it or 10-20 sets of furniture ..3 kinds of chocolate or 1 kind of toilet paper.. no to mention the fact that i.e. during the 80s people had to wait for a coupple of h to buy a toilet paper.
During communism we had also a private sector where there were various entrepenours who were more wealthy than the rest of the people.
So it`s not that simple as you may think.
If Poland had not have suffered Stalin and the USSR then Poland would now be at least 20 years ahead of where it is now.
Yep - when it comes to GDP per capita we`re 18 years behind the UK.
Unemployment is high, 22% i believe.
It`s 15,2% - but about 1/3 of those people who are registered as unemploued has work - they only don`t want to pay the proper taxes.
The Irish economy is an inspiration for us - and as a matter of fact I find it should be an inspiration for the whole Europe, instead of the Scandinavian model. Your country had shown that a country that once had been poor had achived very much thru very hard work, but you have to see that in many ways we are similar, yet we`re not the same.
no, not the same but the situation is very similar. Irelands situation changed through large resources being put into education. Education of the masses is the key. Up until the 1970's Ireland was largely a farming nation. All our money was put into it. A change of tactics proved successful. Tax incentives were given to big American corporations etc. to set up in Ireland. This made sense for them getting a gateway into Europe while allowing them to make huge profits. in turn employment was created here.Ireland boasts one of the best education systems in the world which has lead to a huge turnaround from farming to micro electronics and software development etc. Ireland is the biggest exporter of software in Europe i am told. This a major turn around for us and hopefully it will continue:).
I beleive this is only the begining for countries like Poland. All the Iron curtain countries (Poland, Lithuania, Czec Rep, Slovakia, Yugoslavia etc.) are now at the begining of what should be a major turn around for them. History has a funny way of shifting the balance when its least expected. As my favorite singer/poet Bob Dylan quite rightly said 'He who is first soon shall be last, for the times they are a changin'. This rings true in so many ways. If you look at the situation in Europe 100 years ago things were very different. England was still a world power. Communism was on the rise with the fall of Russia's monarchy. Revolution was in the air. All the old powers (England, Holland, France, Russia) were still clinging to their colonies. World war 1 was about to begin. By the end of the second worl war Europe looked very different. The only power left was Russia and that was a corrupt clone of the post revolution Lennnon tried to create. I see the fall of Russia as the next stage... Contries like Poland are now able to breath at last and their time will come. It may take a bit of time but it will happen. The world is going through a very dangerous time right now and its hard to know where things will go but what is sure is that the structure of the worlds economy is ready for a big swing. The lack of oil will see to that. Who knows where it will lead?
wishful thinking... doubt if it will benefit poland.
The world is going through a very dangerous time right now and its hard to know where things will go but what is sure is that the structure of the worlds economy is ready for a big swing. The lack of oil will see to that
true, poland will come out second best and will be at a disadvantage...sorry
I see it as justice, but I wouldn`t say that the it`s such a terribly huge change. History is only repeating itself and the World is getting to a similar balance of wealth and power as it had been before the XVIII century. Those old powers aren`t really old and some of them, haven`t existed untill recently (i.e. Germany is only 200 years old and Russia is only c.a. 500 years old). The best example for that things are getting back as they were is China, which for most part of the the last two thousand was the worlds largest economy. We`re simply moving into the past.
When it comes to Russia - I would say that communism and the monarchy wasn`t that different in that country - all of the methods of repression used by the communists were invented during the times of the monarchy. And I also don`t think that Russia isn`t going to fall - It`s actually getting stronger because of the lack of energy and other resources - that Russia has in almost unlimited amounts.
Coming from a country that had to put up with similar tyranny for 800 years i completely sympatise with other nations
Stop fucking bleeting about the past....think about what the IRA have done, not exactly without blood on your hands now are you my friend - or can you say planting a bomb in a bin in a crowded shopping area the day before mothers day is okay???????
During the years of the Famine (1846 - 1848) we had 4 million die and emigrate to these countries. We had no choice. it was either that or die
Hmmmm change the tune, I had relatives come over on one of those skanky boats from Galway as did a large proporation of people in England - I think they were just glad to be in a civilised country - and unlike most I have no interest in tracing any F.....'s in Ireland! and please get your dates correct it was 1845 - 1849 tut tut shame on you!!
Racists show themselves by their inability to keep their mouth shut... I'm sorry if i hit a nerve but fact is fact. As for the IRA i would not consider retaliation from irealists in defence of a population that is downtrodden, unallowed to vote or elbowed out in the face of employment as anything that should not be expected. As for having blood on our hands you are full of shit! When it comes to the IRA and the UVF for that matter you are dealing with exteamists. Paramilitaries are uncontrollable and do not speak for the common man or an able bodied government. Yes the IRA have killed people and so have UVF, INLA etc. but i ask you this? Has the Irish army ever opened fire on the public? Have they ever drove an armoured car into a football ground and opened fire on the crowd? I think not. Maybe your pathetic governments ideas of control can be justified in your eyes but sadly not in mine. So don't say we have blood on our hands. Your unashamed history speaks for itself. I can hold my head up. Ireland is the victim in this story not the other way around. Don't ever forget that. You can only beat people down so far before they will fight back.
And as far as the famine goes you might like to reread your history to find that the dates i metioned refer to the peak time of the famine where the majority of people died. Try looking up 'black 47'... And as for coming from a civilised country you could hardly describe England as anything but civilised after all the horror it has caused to other nations accross the world and is continuing to do in this present day trying to relive some sort of sick glory by being Americas lapdog. If anything you have more to answer for than anyone else!
May i also apologise for this outburst but such blunt racism boils my blood. I was not having a go at the UK but merely quoteing history. If that offends then I am sorry but i'm not about to rewrite history for your benift.
May i also add - Do these people come onto these forums looking for an argument? This is a forum about poland and Polish people. Its not a place for Brits to have a go at Irish or vice versa. I was disscussing The similarities between Poland and Ireland with my Polish friend here only to have to suffer this shit? Grow up and take responsibility. No one had a go at you. If you don't like to accept what is fact then nobody can help you. The world sadly is a very violent place. Not much has changed since the cavemen. No one is blaming a modern English person for their ancesstors faults. I have many English friends who happen to agree with me. No one should be made feel they have to defend their country in an argument. Thankfully the English people i've met have more cop on than to entertain such foolishness. At the same time there is no shame in taking pride in ones country either. Learn to control your racist views and the world will like you better for it. As an English person you are going to have to accept that England has pissed off quite a lot of countries over the years (Canada, America, Ireland, France, Hong Kong, Africa, India, Australia etc. etc. - the list is endless) It may seem to you that everyone should get over it but you country was'nt the one being raped and pillaged. If you are not big enough to accept that fact then maybe they are right for hating you? It seems nothing is learnd from the past. Present world current events are evidence enough of that!
It's amazing really, I spent a good time living in Munich 10 years ago and the attitude of the Germans is completely different. From my own personal experiene i found that the youth of Germany do nothing but appologise for their counries behaviour during the war. So much so you get bored and have to tell them to shut up. I'm sure the Poles here would agree that the horror the Nazi's caused during the war can not be matched and for you i'm sure it would be very hard to forget. At least the Germans take responsibility for their actions and don't try to justify it just to make themselves feel better.
It seems to me, some of the soundest people i've ever met are English. Truly lovely people full of love and wit. The best music scene in the world and cutting edge in social forward thinking. I mean that honestly and true. And then there are mindless racists who seem to forget the world is for all of us. The bit they never seem to get is... Ironic but true...No one wants a racist! Racists are scum!
It's amazing really, I spent a good time living in Munich 10 years ago and the attitude of the Germans is completely different. From my own personal experiene i found that the youth of Germany do nothing but appologise for their counries behaviour during the war. So much so you get bored and have to tell them to shut up. I'm sure the Poles here would agree that the horror the Nazi's caused during the war can not be matched and for you i'm sure it would be very hard to forget. At least the Germans take responsibility for their actions and don't try to justify it just to make themselves feel better.
I am not so sure about it. There are still lots extreme right-wing racist there. I would describe German attitude to Poloand as patronising and not very friendly. Far away from any apology.
I can only speak from my own experience. They were the people i met. I am sure there are dickheads everywhere you go. Germans are no exception. Any of the German students i met were very friendly and not like that at all. There is a famous Brittish comedy called 'Falty Towers' where there is a sketch with Germans. It's very funny. They keep saying 'Don't mention the war' because there are lots of Germans about. What made it really funny when i was there was all my friends kept saying 'Dont mention the war' all the time but the Germans would'nt shut up about it. It was hillarious. In fairness to them i found a deep respect for the Germans i met as they could'nt be further from Nazi's. I felt sorry for them as they kept trying to tell us that they feel ashamed of their country and in all fairness it is not their fault. They have to inherit a shame that is not theirs from a bunch of loony biggots who inflicted terrible things on the rest of Europe. Having said that, I also encountered hostility from the older generation. Mostly old ladies and old men. I suppose they would have been around to experience some of that upbringing. They would give out to you about your clothes or hair on trains etc. As if it was any of their business! There seems to be a big devide between the old people and the Youth of Germany today. At least that is what i perceived when i lived there. Berlin is the best example of this. Berlin is just a mad place:)
ALL I CAN SAY THIS - HATRED IS A POISON REGARDLESS. WE ALL MUST STOP BLAMING OTHERS AROUND US AND START TAKING RESPONSIBILITY FOR OUR OWN LIVES AND BEING THE PEOPLE WE WANT TO BE. WE ARE FREE NOW, SO LET'S JUST BE FREE AND LIVE A GOOD, SUCCESSFUL LIFE. NO ONE IS STOPPING US FROM DOING THIS AND IF YOU SAY THEY ARE, YOU JUST DON'T HAVE THE STRENGTH TO TRULY CHANGE YOUR OWN LIFE FOR THE BETTER. ALWAYS EASIER TO BLAME SOMEONE ELSE, OR A COUNTRY, OR AN ENTIRE GROUP OF PEOPLE.
I can only speak from my own experience. They were the people i met. I am sure there are dickheads everywhere you go. Germans are no exception. Any of the German students i met were very friendly and not like that at all.
Now more than ever in today's global economy you will find that intelligent,open-minded young people are similar throughout the world.In fact,you will probably have more in common and a similar outlook on life with intelligent,travelled young people in India and China than with less intelligent,less travelled people in your own country.Its mostly ignorance that causes problems.
There are still many black people in America, who hate whities, because over 100 years ago they were their slaves. I guess it's human nature to blame others for their misfortunes.There's a quote: "Life is 10% what happens to you, and 90% what you do about it"
Now more than ever in today's global economy you will find that intelligent,open-minded young people are similar throughout the world.In fact,you will probably have more in common and a similar outlook on life with intelligent,travelled young people in India and China than with less intelligent,less travelled people in your own country.Its mostly ignorance that causes problems
I agree with you. I didn't want to write it not to sound a little snobbish but it is true. It is strange but open-mindeness and education make people so similar. And you always find bigots, racists people with narrow minds.
When I hear about polish in England- some people opinions are so.....bad. I agree as there are so many of us here that not all are perfect you find few thieves, rough people. But in general we easy adopt, learn english , work hard have good education and skills.
Few days ago there was article in Daily Express that polish workers cause unemployment in England? Where? I thought they fill workplaces where employers were struggling to find someone. Another thing is if some some polish people work better than English - I thought that in England it is free and competitive market so employer choose better person.Just capitalism.
I can only speak from my own experience. They were the people i met.
I suppose you are right younger generation is different.Older people feel maybe some bitternes, they were brought up in different way.
England has pissed off quite a lot of countries over the years (Canada, America, Ireland, France, Hong Kong, Africa, India, Australia etc. etc. - the list is endless
America wouldnt be the country it is now if we hadn't gone there! India - they all have lovely british passports now so i dont think they're that bothered
Few days ago there was article in Daily Express that polish workers cause unemployment in England? Where?
Well most of dont believe that - but there is the fact that some companies will pay Polish workers less and it's a competitive market and this will drive wages down in a country that has high taxes and a inflated house prices - it's difficult.
Well most of dont believe that - but there is the fact that some companies will pay Polish workers less and it's a competitive market and this will drive wages down in a country that has high taxes and a inflated house prices - it's difficult.
that is true but it is difficult to control it. It is the same in USA lots illegal workers who don't pay taxes are paid less than minimum.
Well i do not blame Polish people for lack of jobs inflated house prices etc in this country WHY? because i would do the same if it was the other way round.All blame lies with the government but to me its greedy british companies who are to blame if they employed every1 the same whatever nationality same pay there would not be so much racism they go for cheap option using and exploiting foreign agency workers on the cheap leaving no jobs for uk workers.As for landlords they buy up propertys put up to 10 in a house could not give a damm bout what noise is made for the family next door why because they probably have a nice house in the country or some swanky appartment.So basically what im saying is do not blame the Poles they are decent hard working people trying to make a living doing only what we would be doing if the boot was on the other foot the blame lies elsewhere.
Dont even respond to him, he's a waste of space who drinks too much and has a bloody opinion on everything and knows nothing
I think that this post was quite self explanitory dont you?
I read an article that said the explosion obviously forced the regeneration of the city centre that probably would never of happened.
this is quite true, but being the midst of a bombing isn't very nice and an experience and I wouldnt wish on anyone. But yes we have Harvey Nics now and Selfridges and a whole host of lovely new shops and a city to be proud of, but the regen is far from finished
And you dont! youre the biggest blabbermouth on here
the reason Polish people are racists is because they eat a lot of beans
quote=rafik, Post #260 ]if that was the reason then the brits would be the most racist people in the world.it must have been a cabbage which my mum fed me [/quote]
How cool I wonder if Heinz are going change their slogan
The BBC paints a lovely picture of the IRA that much is true. Now if only they done the same with the UVF, INLA, UFF etc... How much of their escapades do you know about? Both sides are as bad as each other. Take it from someone who lives in the country its constant tit for tat. What people forget is that the problems that began in the North in the 1970's have nothing to do with the previous conflicts that occoured over the previous centuries that was dealt with in the war of idependence. The racism that exists in the North is down to the civil rights movement for Catholics who were not allowed vote or work because of racism enforced by the potestant comunity. The marches that ensued were badly dealt with by the Brittish goverment and RUC which eventually lead to retalliation from the IRA. This was quickly followed by punishment beatings and executions from the UVF etc.
I could go on all day but can't be bothered because it goes nowhere and with that attitude would never end. The current situation is that the IRA have taken the inititive and laid down their arms. The UVF/Orange order have since the ceasefire tried to goad them out and encourage them to take up arms again because they fear that peace might lead to a calming and possible reunification.
They are all as bad as each other. Gerry Adams has his own agenda as do the IRA. I am not defending them but will also say that Ian Paisley is just as involved in the UVF and a biggot who will never give in. Why do you think he has never been shot? The answer is simple... He makes his position quite clear and shows to the world exactly what the Orange order really stands for because he can't keep his racist mouth shut!
It is a terrible situation and neither side is right. All arguments lose their meaning as soon as people begin to die over any cause. That is my opinion. I would be quite happy to have Northen Ireland and all its people part of the South as would most republicans but it is the fear of being a minority and seeing perhaps the tables turned and the fear of Southern retribution that keeps that from happening. Tony Blair would love nothing more than to get rid of the North of Ireland. That is a fact. It costs Britain billions to maintain and police every year. At the same time the Irish Government would be quaking in its boots at the prospect of having to take on that responsibility. Because the violence would not stop. There are too many racist loyalists living there that would run amok.
The point of all this waffle is that the real problem is racism not history. People must look beyond themselves if a solution is to be found. Violence only breeds more violence but do not be fooled by what you see on your TV screen. Here in Ireland we have the BBC. We also have RTE and we see both sides of the news and i can tell you that you are only hearing one side of the story. There is quite a lot you don't hear about. Now think of this... Someone somewhere is making that decision as to what the Brittish public hears about. These are the kinds of people who run countries. I don't know about you but that certainly does not settle well with me.
Its like the current 'War on Terror' and 9/11. Not once has SKY News ever discussed the true reason for these events. Islam extreamists, what a joke! Do these people truly beleive that we are all that nieve? They paint a very one sided picture. Go to america and watch CNN etc. its even worse. Makes me sice!
I concede, a lot of what you wrote was very true, especially about England wanting to get rid of NI it does cost us and I'm sure that people in NI are happy getting GP's treatment free and all the other bennefits- but if both sides were to come together again Ireland would be back to square one with the fiights and bloodshed - I remember as a child seeing on the news day in and day out the troubles in Ireland - it wasnt very nice and I'm sure that it was horrific growing up in certain areas - I never had a problem with the IRA (I didnt condone, neither did I condem) I understood that they were fighting for a cause but that changed when they did what they did in Warrington and I found myself in Manchester with a bomb going off - it sort of changes you opinion of things.
