Return PolishForums LIVE
  PolishForums Archive :
Archives - 2005-2009 / Language  % width 23

SILESIANS WANT THEIR LINGO RECOGNISED


Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448  
29 Jul 2009 /  #1
There is reportedly a movement afoot in Śląsk (SIlesia) to have their dialect recognised as a regional language the way Kashubian has been.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
29 Jul 2009 /  #2
Well, I could easily show how different it is by asking forum members to translate into real standard Polish. If it needs to be translated, it's a different language. I think it's one step beyond a dialect when spoken by people from Chorzów, for example.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,218  
29 Jul 2009 /  #3
There is reportedly a movement afoot in Śląsk (SIlesia) to have their dialect recognised as a regional language

The movement has really been afoot for years (at least ten) now.

If it needs to be translated, it's a different language.

The difference is mostly in vocabularly rather than in syntax. The Sileasian dialect apart from having assimilated lots of German words has preserved plenty of old Polish vocabulary.

Well, I could easily show how different it is by asking forum members to translate into real standard Polish.

All right, let's give it a go then.

The Kashubian language should have never been regarded as a dialect of Polish as it belongs to the Slavic Pomeranian group of languages (just as the Polabian language in the now German island of Rugen which survived there until the 18th century or the language słowiński having survived in the area near the seaside town of £eba until around 1960).
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
29 Jul 2009 /  #4
OK, here are a few words to translate HONESTLY, an A-Z:

Antryj = ?

Bifyj = ?

Chasiok = ?

Danga = ?

Elwer = ?

Fach = ?

Gipsdeka = ?

Hawiernia = ?

Ipta = ?

Jodło = ?

Kopruch = ?

Lyjberwoszt = ?

Miech = ?

Nupel = ?

Oberiba = ?

Pampoń = ?

Queenhaus = ? (I made this one up, lol)

Raja = ?

Sornik = ?

Tasia = ?

Uja = ?

Vandalvolk = ? (another fictitious one)

Wojok = ?

X-mannschaft = ? (hmm, desperation)

Ynta = ?

Zeslik = ?

OK, that's my first A-Z of testers. No cheating please. If you don't know, then say so. If you can guess my intention for Q, V and X then you get 3 points. Out of 26 in total :)

Answers will be given after 21:15 tonight. They are all nouns btw.
frd 7 | 1,399  
29 Jul 2009 /  #5
hehe first two are from a well known rhyme that is:

W antryju na bifyju stoi szolka tyju. : p
antryj - przedpokój / hall
bifyj - kredens / cupboard
Chasiok - kosz na śmieci / litter bin
fach in polish means craft, but I'm not really sure if it's the Silesian "fach" : o
gibsdeka - sufit / ceiling
kopruch - komar / mosquito
tasia - torba / bag especially one of those plastic bags
I forgot what raja means..
that's all I know without googling.. I'm not a 100% ślunzok :/
Torq 32 | 2,897  
29 Jul 2009 /  #6
Elwer = ?

a penalty kick?

Fach = ?

a job?

Jodło = ?

food?

Vandalvolk = ?

Arka Gdynia supporters?

X-mannschaft = ?

erm... Bayern Munich?

:)
Lyzko  
29 Jul 2009 /  #7
Apropos, still seaching for a site showing a contrastive list of standard Polish with the góral "language" (dialect??) of the Tatry/Zakopane highlanders. Thus far, I'm only familiar with 'godzinnek' for standard P. 'zegar'. Cute, huh? There must be sundry others, equally as delightful as those Old Polish ones in Silesian!

Think I might have posted something of this nature almost a year ago.-:) LOL
frd 7 | 1,399  
29 Jul 2009 /  #8
food?

I'm pretty sure "Jodło" would be food for a highlander.. I'm not sure if it's the same in Silesian.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
29 Jul 2009 /  #9
Aha, some sharp cookies here I see. Nobody is so wide of the mark and many are correct but that's all I'll say for now.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,218  
29 Jul 2009 /  #10
Here is the Silesian impression on a well-known poem of Julian Tuwim ""LOKOMOTYWA". Below the first several verses of the original ...

Jest na banhowie ciynszko maszyna,
Rubo jak kachlok - niy limuzyna,
Stoi i dycho, parsko i zipie,
A hajer jeszcze wongiel w nią sypie.
Potym wagony podopinali,
I calym szfongym kajs pojechali.


[na bahowie = na stacji, german Bahnhof; ciynszko = ciężka; rubo = gruba; kachlok = ?; hajer = palacz; wongiel = węgiel; calym szfongiem = całym składem (?) or bardzo szybko (?); kajs = gdzieś]

W piyrwszym siedziały se dwa Hanysy,
Jedyn kudłaty, a drugi łysy,
Prawie do siebie nic niy godali,
Bo sie do kupy jeszcze niy znali.

W drugim jechała banda goroli,
Wiyzli ze soba krzinka jaboli,
I pelne kofry samych presworsztóf,
I kabanina prosciutko z rusztu.
Pili i zarli, jeszcze śpiywali,
Potym bez lokno wszyscy żigali.


[presworsztóf = ?; bez lokno = przez okno]
--------------------------
Stoi na stacji lokomotywa,
Ciężka, ogromna i pot z niej spływa -
Już ledwo sapie, już ledwo zipie,
A jeszcze palacz węgiel w nią sypie.
Wagony do niej podoczepiali
Wielkie i ciężkie, z żelaza, stali ...

Lyzko  
29 Jul 2009 /  #11
Thanks, frd! Am looking for a sort of list though.

It's a help however-:)

Marek
Matyjasz 2 | 1,544  
29 Jul 2009 /  #12
W antryju na bifyju stoi szolka tyju. : p

Interesting, in Greater Poland we have a similar rhyme that goes:

W antrejce na ryczce
Stały pyry w tytce
Przyszła niuda, spucła pyry
A w wymborku myła giry!

:)

Antryj = ?

In GP it's antrejka, and it means hall.

Fach = ?

Craft?

Jodło = ?

Food?

Lyjberwoszt = ?

Liver sausage! In Greater Poland we call it "lebera", and it is a pate made out of liver that looks pretty much like a sausage. Delicious on a bread with pickled cucumbers mmmm...

Miech = ?

bag; sack?

Raja = ?

Is this the same as "rajka"? A line on a field where you plant veggies?

Sornik = ?

Cheesecake?

Tasia = ?

a bag or a purse?
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
29 Jul 2009 /  #13
I will reveal all at around 21.15 but you guys are on the ball. I like the cheesecake guess. I'd have guessed that too based on sernik but....
Bartolome 2 | 1,085  
29 Jul 2009 /  #14
...it's a 'roe'.
Co ta dziołcha s Tobóm zrobióła (:
frd 7 | 1,399  
29 Jul 2009 /  #15
Co ta dziołcha s Tobóm zrobióła (:

jerunie chopie kaj ten vault 13?
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
29 Jul 2009 /  #16
Antryj = Przedpokój

Bifyj = Kredens

Chasiok = Śmietnik

Danga = Tęcza

Elwer = A PK lub bezrobotny

Fach = Zawód

Gipsdeka = Sufit

Hawiernia = Kopalnia

Ipta = Głupek

Jodło = Jedzenie

Kopruch = Komar

Lyjberwoszt = Pasztet

Miech = Worek

Nupel = Smoczek

Oberiba = Kalarepa

Pampoń = Wieśniak

Queenhaus = ? (I made this one up, lol) The Queen's House

Raja = Kolejka

Sornik = Sarna, jelen

Tasia = Torba

Uja = Wujek

Vandalvolk = ? (another fictitious one) Wandaly

Wojok = Żolnierz

X-mannschaft = ? (hmm, desperation) X-men :)

Ynta = Upadek

Zeslik = Fotelik

Well done to all those who took the time to guess with a high level of accuracy ;)

If this thread stays alive, I'll add the next A-Z instalment in the near future :)
Bartolome 2 | 1,085  
29 Jul 2009 /  #17
I must admit I didn't know some of words above, but then again Ślónski spode £opoloł is different than Ślónski ze Zagłymbioł.

jerunie chopie kaj ten vault 13?

Joł myjśla ize bómba w niygo dupła

(:
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
30 Jul 2009 /  #18
It's hardened Silesian in many ways. I'm not familiar with many of the words
Ziemowit 13 | 4,218  
30 Jul 2009 /  #19
Joł myjśla ize bómba w niygo dupła

It's hardened Silesian in many ways. I'm not familiar with many of the words

It is in a way proof that Silesian shouldn't be considered a separate language. It follows closely the Polish syntax all the time, just the pronounciation and words are a bit different, but the sentence is clearly understandable (= Myślałem, ze bomba w niego trafiła).

Isn't it in a way just like Scottish English? The syntax is the same as in English English, but the Scotts pronounce the language differently and I believe they use a bunch of their own words.
Lyzko  
30 Jul 2009 /  #20
They sure do-:)

I'm totally not an expert in Scots English (rather than Scots Gaelic), however, there are literally tons of Scandinavian-derived words in Scots 'dialect', both Low-as well as Highland Scots. For example 'bairn' = child > 'barn' in Danish, or 'to lake' = play > Modern Swedish 'leka' etc.... Yorkshire dialect too is chock full of such vocabulary.

Once again though, back to things Polish, I find the góral expression 'godzinek' for standard Polish 'zegar(ek)' awfully sweet. LOL
Ziemowit 13 | 4,218  
30 Jul 2009 /  #21
There are literally tons of Scandinavian-derived words in Scots 'dialect', both Low-as well as Highland Scots.

That's what I thought by choosing the word "bunch" figuratively. Tons of foreign words both in Silesian and Scottish English dialects.

I find the góral expression 'godzinek' for standard Polish 'zegar(ek)' awfully sweet.

Once a friend told me she was asked a question by an old "góral" lady while on a visit to Zakopane: "Paniusiu, kielo no cykocu?" She didn't understand the question. Maybe you can figure out what it means (it has something to do with a watch as well)?
Lyzko  
30 Jul 2009 /  #22
No, może być, 'Proszę panią! Która (jest) godzina?'

Czy mam rację?? Rather guessing at that last one, eh?

))))
frd 7 | 1,399  
30 Jul 2009 /  #23
Paniusiu, kielo no cykocu?

I'm guessing that's "What time is it?" Silesian version is something like "Wiela na blacie?"

Archives - 2005-2009 / Language / SILESIANS WANT THEIR LINGO RECOGNISEDArchived