I understand that a few years ago legislation was passed in Poland and some high commission or other august body of linguists was set up to police the language, in particular against English intrusions. That would be somewhat reminiscent of France's Académie Française and its unending war on Franglais (bastardised French). In Poland, someone not having a Polish-language shop sign or Polish wording on packgaing could be fined. Anyone know whether anything has come of this? Or is this yet another exmaple of the Poles' well-known straw-fire (słomiany zapał) mentality -- grandiose schemes with no follow-through?
POLISH LANGUAGE POLICE?
VaFunkoolo 6 | 654
27 Nov 2008 / #2
Just like most things in Poland, the language is much more complicated then it really needs to be
Scrap it and start again, just like most things in Poland
Scrap it and start again, just like most things in Poland
What kind of language reform would you suggest? Coupla years ago the Germans simplified their spelling a bit (ia replacing many of the ß with an ss). Possibilities in Polish migth include:
* replacing the sz cz and ż with a Czech (and other) style š, è and ž
* replacing rz with ž
* eliminating the ch and using just h everywhere (so the well known saying would be written: W šèebžešynie hžonšè bżmi w tžcinie)
* eliminaitng nasal vowels ą and ę and repalcing them vowel + m or n;
eg głemboki, sond, bende, wonhać
* eliminating past tense personal endings in the Russian manner: ja był, ty widział, my mieli, wy chcieli, etc.
* get rid of internal vowel alternations such as ciasto~cieście; all would be w miaście, w ciale, etc.
* do away with gender identification of verbs: kobiety, studenci, stoły i koty byli
* ja był, widział regadless if a woman or man were speaking
* one could go so far as to do what the sms-ers do and eliminate all diacritical marks too:
Eg: On sni o pieniondzach i slawie; cma spi w spizarni; ladnie sie spisal, wrenc (if no more è) zajebiscie.
Were you thinking along these lines?
* replacing the sz cz and ż with a Czech (and other) style š, è and ž
* replacing rz with ž
* eliminating the ch and using just h everywhere (so the well known saying would be written: W šèebžešynie hžonšè bżmi w tžcinie)
* eliminaitng nasal vowels ą and ę and repalcing them vowel + m or n;
eg głemboki, sond, bende, wonhać
* eliminating past tense personal endings in the Russian manner: ja był, ty widział, my mieli, wy chcieli, etc.
* get rid of internal vowel alternations such as ciasto~cieście; all would be w miaście, w ciale, etc.
* do away with gender identification of verbs: kobiety, studenci, stoły i koty byli
* ja był, widział regadless if a woman or man were speaking
* one could go so far as to do what the sms-ers do and eliminate all diacritical marks too:
Eg: On sni o pieniondzach i slawie; cma spi w spizarni; ladnie sie spisal, wrenc (if no more è) zajebiscie.
Were you thinking along these lines?
Scrap it and start again, just like most things in Poland
It's a grand idea!
I'm sure Poles would follow a good example of some simplifications of English spelling, according to this oldie but goodie:
In the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c". Sertainly, this will
make the sivil servants jump with joy. The hard "c" will be dropped in
favour of the"k". This should klear up konfusion and keyboards kan
have 1 less letter.
There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year, when the
troublesome "ph" will be replaced with "f". This will make words like
"fotograf" 20% shorter.
In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be ekspekte
to reach the stage where more komplilated changes are possible.
Governments will enkorage the removal of double letters, which have
always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the
horible mes of the silent "e"s in the language is disgraseful, and
they should go away.
By the fourth year, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing
"th" with "z" and "w" with "v".
During ze fifz year, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords
kontaining "ou" and similar changes vud of kors be aplid to ozer
kombinations of leters.
After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be
no mor trubl or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi to understand
ech ozer.
ZE DREM VIL FINALI KUM TRU!
the language
Scrap it and start again
Don't smoke crack, kiddies
Guest
28 Nov 2008 / #6
Ó ne jak !
Just as German had its 'Rechtschreibereform' (Spelling Reform) a few years ago, so too must the Poles and others follow suit, it seems--:):) Is there a Polish equivalent of the Duden-Gesellschaft, the OED or the Acadamie Francaise? If there isn't, there ought to be.
When English will finally have a long overdue spelling reform to iron out its sundry kinks and vagueries ('knight'/'night'/'nite' etc. ad infinitum....) is anyone's guess!
Some are calling for a German grammar reform!! Oh, Mark Twain would have been pleased to hear that, I'm sure. Looks like the Interpol of grammar police is going to be working extra hours. And rightly so, I say.
When English will finally have a long overdue spelling reform to iron out its sundry kinks and vagueries ('knight'/'night'/'nite' etc. ad infinitum....) is anyone's guess!
Some are calling for a German grammar reform!! Oh, Mark Twain would have been pleased to hear that, I'm sure. Looks like the Interpol of grammar police is going to be working extra hours. And rightly so, I say.
Why? When there are languages with spellings as bizarre as those found in English and French, why change? Polish orthography makes a lot of sense (once you get used to all the cz sz rz and the i for softening consonants and so on). There are only a few minor details that seem superfluous.
Change language, change thinking.
or
Let language develop naturally, let thinking develop naturally.
Change language, change thinking.
or
Let language develop naturally, let thinking develop naturally.
At least in German, the attempt was made to make the orthography more consistent with the High German standard, e.g. short vowels with 'ss' (Fluss, Schuss etc.) vs.long vowels with a so-called 'sharp s' or 'esszet' in words such as 'Fusss', 'Strassse' etc., both historically written the same way, although pronounced differently.
The idea was simply to streamline the spelling with the pronounciation in order to make the written and spoken languages more uniform.
Already Churchill, I believe, once proposed a Basic English for worldwide use with a simplified spelling. But it never caught on seriously--:)
The idea was simply to streamline the spelling with the pronounciation in order to make the written and spoken languages more uniform.
Already Churchill, I believe, once proposed a Basic English for worldwide use with a simplified spelling. But it never caught on seriously--:)