History / Polish Jews - they changed their Jewish surnames to Polish [532]

This is my last post here.

Making a list does involve copying and pasting names one by one. It is a legitimate time-saving procedure that computers were made for. It involves discrimination and selection. Again, most other forums don't mind the participants doing that, only pseudo-protective, anal ones. It's the selection of names and copied material that makes the point, not random copying for copying's sake. I don't need lessons in originality from you, bud.

History / Polish Jews - they changed their Jewish surnames to Polish [532]

Moderator,

What's with your anal action of deleting my list of famous Polish Jews? This is the only forum I've participated in where the moderator takes it upon himself to comment sarcastically on a participant's post (at least that what it looks like on page 15) and deletes a couple of hours of someone 's time and effort just because they don't like the message implicit in the list. This forum started out as a list, however flawed and inaccurate. I know that police state habits and party line control die hard, but this is 2007 in Poland after all.

All I can say to you is: GO **** YOURSELF, PINHEAD!!!

History / Polish Jews - they changed their Jewish surnames to Polish [532]


Bad things about Polish Jews? You have to be more specific here.
You see, my father was Jewish, and he spent 1944 and part of 45 in Auschwitz and Bergen Belsen. He was the first to admit that some German guards saved his life in the camps. However, I'm sorry to say that he didn't have any kind words for the Poles or Ukranians that he came in contact with, inmates or guards. They were invariably rabidly anti-Semitic. Now, I'm trying to strike some balance here by saying that it is a well-known fact that some Poles harbored Jews during the war and that many were not rabidly anti-Semitic but were unable to do anything. Still, the fact remains ( and this forum proves it) that anti-Semitism is a national disease in Poland. Claude Lanzman effectively proved it with SHOAH, especially in the scenes where the villagers are finally admitting that Jews bear the eternal guilt as Christ-killers and in another village, where the peasants relate the fate of their former neighbors with some glee and amusement.


The purpose of my participation in any forum is not to become popular but to express my opinions and present some facts, however unpopular they may be. That's the price one has to pay sometimes. If the participants are half-way civil and informed and do not display overt bigotry, I'll treat them with kid gloves, like I'm treating you. However, if they are from the lunatic fringe, like the guy who's accusing Einstein of plagiarism or the guy who sees a sinister plot in every Jewish name, then I make no bones about using strong language and expressing contempt.


How can a debate about anti-Semitism be called metaphysical? That's one of the central problems of history and is central proof of any nation's maturity as to how it positions itself on that issue or about the mistreatment of any other minority, not just Jews. It has to do with the loss of lives of countless millions throughout history and the suffering of countless people because of irrational, prejudices, accusations and fears. And my friend, that issue is solvable and has been solved in the civilized world but not yet fully in Poland.

nor do purported diagnoses of psychiatric illnesses. Indeed, is it really ethical of you to hold yourself out as a mental health professional and engage in this conduct - I think not.

I am participating in the forum as a private individual, not as a psychopathologist. However, that doesn't prohibit me from using professional knowledge in the assessment of some of the views expressed. I do repeat that I stand behind a previous post that states that any kind of racism is a type of mental illness because it's underlying cause is persecutory delusions. That's state of the art established opinion in the field. It's always uncomfortable to hear the truth about one's psychic shortcomings because they undermine one's identity and one's good opinion of themselves, but one can always seek treatment. We don't use shock therapy any more, and we don't lock people up (I guess someone was unduly influenced by "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest".).


As for Corey Haim, well, as I said before about Pee Wee, if that is your only undeserved entry from the lists I submitted, I'll take him out.


This refers to my post on page 17 about Jesus, the Bible, and the Papal proclamation Nostra Aetate. I quoted it, but the moderator erased it.

History / Polish Jews - they changed their Jewish surnames to Polish [532]

Matyjasz

Well, sometimes you reap what you sow. And it was you that used the word 'bastards', not me.

I do not agree with the Israeli government's harsh policies towards Palestinian civilians and neither do many Israelis or non-Israeli Jews. I believe it was a major historical mistake for the Jews to go back to Palestine and live in the sea of natural enemies. However, let us not forget that the Palestinians and Arab governments in general have never "missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity" in their own dealings with the Israelis. Arafat had a unique chance to close an extremely favorable peace deal with Ehud Barak and Bill Clinton, which would've led to the creation of the Palestinian state, but he chickened out because he was afraid that the hardliners in his own government would assassinate him for making peace with what they considered their mortal enemy.

Still, the main difference between Israelis and Arabs today is that Israelis would be perfectly willing to consider Arabs as equal human beings and partners worthy of respect if the Arabs showed an inkling of desire for cooperation. The Arab governments don't want to do it because the open Palestinian question serves as a release valve for the pent-up political and economic tensions in their own societies. Also, the expressions of Arab anti-Semitism in official newspapers have reached such a frenzy and have been cultivated for so long that most Arabs in the street think of Jews as subhuman. I am submitting an article from the best-known Egyptian daily, Al Akhbar. Remember, this is Egypt, with which Israel has a long-standing peace accord:

memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=sd&ID=SP37502

Matyjasz

Here's the situation with Polish jokes. No American stand-up comedian will tell Polish jokes in public or jokes about any other nationality other than his own. That's simply not accepted. Now, Jewish comedians are allowed to tell jokes about Jews, Polish about Poles, and so on down the line. It's a convention that serves everybody's sensibilities well. However, privately, people will tell jokes about various nationalities regardless. It's always been like that, and it always will be. Something tells me that Jewish jokes (especially those of the Auschwitz type) are much more cruel than the Polish ones. I can asure you that the Poles are very rarely the butt of a joke these days.

I also qualified my statement that the prejudice against Poles is a stereotype. I have yet to hear an equivalent sentiment about prejudice towards Jews from you or others in this forum.


Symptomatically, everyone jumped on Pee Wee for masturbating but no one on Stravinsky for loving Mussolini. Doesn't that speak volumes about this forum participants?

Nobody's had the guts to tackle this either. Most of the responses dance around the margins (the lunatic fringe?) but never take the important issues raised head-on.

History / Polish Jews - they changed their Jewish surnames to Polish [532]

WAKY,

Anti-Zionism and self-professed love for the Palestinians are an old fig-leaf of modern anti-Semites. You don't fool me with that. You don't give a **** about the Palestinians - they're just a convenient stick to beat Jews on the head with so as to assuage your own guilt about your own anti-Semitism. In a way, you're displaying your ideological camp's defeat because bigotry is not an officially cherished virtue in the modern value system of the West the way it used to be, so you can't quite come out and say that you are anti-Jewish.

But, I guess that's why Poland is where it is today and why the Western Europe and America are where they are.

Matijasz,

Doesn't bother me. I'm not hung up on bodily functions like some of the forum are. If that is Pee Wee's only sin, I'm pretty sure his place in Heaven is secure. I'm not so sure about 90% of the participants here.

Matyjasz

Let's not play at semantics. And how can it be irrelevant whether you like or hate Jews? A lot of Americans think that Polish Americans are not very bright, and there is even a host of Polish jokes on the subject. Is that irrelevant to you? Even though I may laugh at some of the jokes, I know that it's a stereotype which doesn't have much basis in reality.

Anyone who would accuse Spielberg of being anti-Semitic is a pinhead. Very few might have. Are we going to change our view of reality or lose touch with it because of that?

History / Polish Jews - they changed their Jewish surnames to Polish [532]

WROCLAW

It all started with a book you might have heard of - the Bible - written by Jewish apostles! And a Jewish guy named Jesus, who preached love and tolerance among all men. Little did they know that they would be accused of unfashionable political correctness 2,000 later.

A lot of Polish Catholics on this forum remind me of the saying about a girl who wanted to be screwed without penetration. Your version of Christianity certainly doesn't square with that of the Bible. You can't profess yourself to be good Catholics and to harbour anti-Jewish or anti-any nationality feelings, especially after the Papal 1965 Nostra Aetate proclamation that Jews are not responsible for the death of Christ and that their descendants are even less so. If you don't agree with that proclamation or with the Bible teachings, be a brave representative of your convictions and say that you disagree with them, that you agree with Hitler, Goering, Goebbels, Himmler, Stalin, and Bin Laden. If you say that you are a good Catholic despite being a racist, then you have no idea about the basic values of the Judeo-Christian culture you live in and you are a hypocrite.

WAKY, WAKY,

The only weapon we have against unreason and delusions is reason and its most potent arm - science. I do psychoanalyze patients for a living, and it often works. It seems to me most of Poland has long been ready for a collective therapy.

History / Polish Jews - they changed their Jewish surnames to Polish [532]

PILSUDSKI,

Your replies are growing increasingly incoherent. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove. You seem to be unhealthily interested in Jewish names and seem to be displaying a delusion that if only Jews didn't hide behind Anglo, Polish, etc. names, their control would be loosened. See my reply to Wakeup about delusional disorders.

As for Pee Wee, let me repeat my previous claim that it doesn't matter what he calls himself or what his real name is. What is important is the fact that for a while, he was deservedly a big hit with kids and the critics of the entertainment industry. To masturbate in a darkened movie theater was foolish, and he's paid a heavy price, but for me and so many others, it's not a mortal sin. Look in the Bible. Does it say anywhere that you're going to hell for masturbating? However, I think the Bible might mention in a few places that you should love and forgive thy neighbor, meaning all the inhabitants of the planet.

I never claimed that Pee Wee was a good role model. He was a TV and movie character, who very rarely appeared as Paul Reubens. The world of entertainment or any other field is full of professionals who could do their job admirably but were not so admirable as private persons. Still, we judge their work separately from their private persona. Stravinsky was a musical genius, but he liked Mussolini and was an anti-Semite. Does that change my opinion of his compositional skills? Of course not - I can still enjoy his music, but I am disappointed in Stravinsky the man.

History / Polish Jews - they changed their Jewish surnames to Polish [532]

WAKY, WAKY,

I prefer to do it this way.

Hey, I'm no expert on physics, but you must be. The physicists are certainly gonna change their mind because of Bjerknes and a few other nutcases just like the historians changed their mind because of David Irving regarding the Holocaust. You also have a book for us from The Flat Earth Society or the Creationists challenging the theory of evolution?

Here's a review of Bjerknes's book for those on this forum whose mind has not totally gone astray:

physicsworld.com/cws/article/print/17201

WAKY, WAKY,

I may not be as self-respecting as you, but I AM a professional. My diagnosis was a provisional one, based on the clearly expressed symptom of anti-Semitism. If you don't believe me, consult a psychiatrist or clinical psychologist where you are. And yes, a car problem can be provisionally diagnosed too by an experienced mechanic just by the description of the engine sound, smoke color, and fluids on the ground.

It is an established position in the field that racism (which includes anti-Semitism) is a form of mental illness because it represents a delusional disorder. Anyone that feels that Jews (or blacks, or Moslems, etc) are responsible for most problems in the world or their own communities exhibits a delusion which fits into the American Psychiatric Association category of delusional disorder, persecutory type ( DSM-IV). The fixed, paranoid, and erroneous belief of many bloggers and forum participants that all Jews are evil and conspiring to control the world clearly qualifies as a delusional disorder under the DSM-IV criteria.

Rigid and categorical or stereotyped thinking are common aspects of a variety of mental disorders. So are fear and paranoia. We can easily observe these tendencies in the expressions of racists and bigots.

But, listen, maybe all of us professionals in the mental health field are wrong. Maybe racism should not be called a disease of the mind but of the heart.

History / Polish Jews - they changed their Jewish surnames to Polish [532]

KILKLINE,

Since most posts on this forum tend to be anti-Jewish, I thought yours was a sarcastic statement, in line with many others. I didn't have much from you in the way of previous posts to know what your position is on this issue. I apologize if I misunderstood you.

History / Polish Jews - they changed their Jewish surnames to Polish [532]

PILSUDSKI,

Entertainers of any nationality like to take stage names because their real names may sound outlandish for wider acceptance. In the case of the Jews, they had even more motivation to do so because of the types like you and most other participants in this forum. It's called mimicry, and sometimes it would save their lives. It was a common practice for new U.S. immigrants of any nationality to anglicize their names, or the border officers in the 19th and early 20th centuries would change them themselves since they misheard the pronunciation and wanted to make it easier for themselves. It seems to me that people like you want to have all Jews to have transparent names so that when the time comes again for the Hebes to be singled out for discrimination or extermination, you can point them out without any doubt.

If you don't believe that some persons I listed are Jewish, you can always check them out on the Internet yourself. Some of them are part Jewish, so that can influence the names also. I compiled these lists not on a hunch of what might be a Jewish name but based on the biographies that mentioned Jewish origins. 'Miller' is a frequent Jewish name in America because it's anglicized from German 'Mueller'. I don't know why Mel Brooks, Albert Brooks, and Richard Brooks have those last names, but they are all Jews. In any biography book or encyclopedia, the artist's real name is usually listed next to the stage name. And most of what you consider to be typical Jewish names are actually German, so ethnic purity is not contained in their names anyway.

We can all have our own opinion about the relative merits of the actors and actresses mentioned. The thing is that all of them have achieved a wide acceptance in the U.S. and most of them around the world. The Jewish producers and studio bosses, just like the non-Jewish ones (and there's much more of them) are not gonna hire and keep somebody just because they're Jewish. As you said, it's a business, and they can't afford to run a profitable business on an ethnic basis, especially where talent and ability to produce count.

If Pee Wee Herman is the only name you can single out for criticism, then my lists prove the point I wanted to prove. But even in the case of Pee Wee, you're wrong. Despite his fall from grace for being caught masturbating in a movie theater, he still remains one of the best and most creative children's entertainers in the history of the genre, and not only children's. Again, popularity among children, joy and laughter on their faces as well as box office profits don't lie, but in this case the critics agree too. You should've picked Yasmine Bleeth instead to argue your point.

And yes, the Italian Mafia used to finance the movie industry. The Anglo-Saxon bankers used to and still do because they would be foolish if they didn't participate in the spoils of that industry. You and anybody else who thinks that financing any branch of economy can be limited to any ethnic group are very naive or uninformed. Of course, there is the third possibility of having a hidden agenda, but I'm not gonna beat that old horse again.

History / Polish Jews - they changed their Jewish surnames to Polish [532]

(I was temporarily unable to log in as BIGLARRY, so I re-registered as NED. Now I'm able to use BIGLARRY again, and hopefully, I won't have to change it)

(Kuc 671:
"But, on the topic, in most cases they changed their own names. Thus Lech Walesa's father has a different name, while Aleksander Kwasniewski's father also had a different name (incidentally Kwas's father was a prominent NKVD officer in Poland and responsible for ordering the execution of tens of Polish freedom fighters in the 1950's).")

The more time I spend on this forum and the more I read about the Polish political life, the more I realize what a nest of vipers and disinformation today's Poland is. In the 1995 presidential campaign, Walesa caused an uproar when he failed to criticize a friend, Catholic priest, for his anti-Semitic remarks. On another ocasion, Walesa accused Mazowiecki of being Jewish. An anonymous politician was qouted by New York Times during that same campaign: "We will see anti-Semitism in the presidential campaign, we are already seeing it. And Walesa obviously stands to gain because no one claims he has Jewish roots." The politician was referring to accusations by an opposing party that Kwasniewski father was Jewish.

This doesn't exactly square with your claim, Kuc671, of Walesa's and Kwasniewski's Jewishness? I was unable to find any evidence on the Internet about these two persons' Jewish roots. Are you and your ilk maybe labeling Kwas with the most odious label you can find in your vocabulary because he apologized on behalf of the Poles for the massacre of Jedwabno?

And even if it were true that Kwas's father was responsible for the deaths of many Poles - so what? Are the children responsible for the misdeeds of their fathers until the end of the world? No, everyone bears their own responsibility, and it ends with their death. That certainly had not been the official creed of the Catholic church for some 2000 years, until 1965, when an American nun, sister Rose, forced the Vatican to change it and admit to the unfairness of it. Unfortunately, it continues to be a virulent creed amongst the majority of the church's flock, especially in Poland. However, if Poland wants to join the modern world, the Poles must internalize that people should be judged on their individual merits, not as members of tribes and nationalities. There is no liberal democracy without that notion.

Instead of hanging out at these forums, listening to your parents', relatives', and friends' anti-Jewish indoctrination and reading right-wing pamphlets that only reinforce your prejuduces, you'd be better off sitting at a library and reading mainstream history books by reputable authors with established credibility.

---

kuc671

An English poet said, "Little learning is a most dangerous thing." He must've thought of you and your ideological friends. Your posts (and many others) are such jumbles of undigested history, half-truths and outright lies that to continue, I would consider myself a living proof of the saying that if you get into a dispute with fools, you run the risk of being called one yourself.

History / Polish Jews - they changed their Jewish surnames to Polish [532]

I didn't even touch baseball or American football and many other minor sports because those names wouldn't be familiar to European readers. My list is just the tip of an iceberg.

History / Polish Jews - they changed their Jewish surnames to Polish [532]

I am a specialist in psychopathology, and I am deeply concerned about wakeup's condition, which is displaying all the symptoms of paranoid schizophrenia. I hope you have good doctors in Poland.

---

If you're an expert in anything it's nothing to do with the psyche...

Why doesn't the respondent identify himself/herself, and why is he/she doubting my credentials? It looks like the webmaster might be giving their opinion here, which is unheard of in any forum that I've participated in. Are you a psychiatrist too? If so, can you offer a different clinical diagnosis based on wakeup's posts, especially the last one, in which he blames 5 million Jews (or 'Zionists', as he euphemistically calls them) for controlling the entire world. That's a classic case of pathological persecution complex or paranoia, which I encounter every day in my private and hospital practice, only the persecutors vary from case to case. There are good medications on the market these days for this condition.