Genealogy / My grandpa was from Poland - Gresom Jopfa [44]

This stuff was all scanned by Agnes Miller, the daughter of Samuel Drobnik who is the subject of the third baptismal record I mentioned above. Her dad came here too but apparently he didn't know my grandfather was living here until my grandfather died back in 1995. He died in 2003.

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According to this, Marienberg is now called Malbork.

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Everybody on all the certificates is a rustici!

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Apparently the Jopfa, Spek, Rybacki (originally Ryback), and Adamczyk (originally just Adam) families were driven into Poland by the Germans, although it says the Kontnik and Drobnik families were both from Poland originally. There are also related related Klas, Kubik, and Sienko (originally Stenk) families. I don't get all the name changes...

This is all pretty confusing...

Genealogy / My grandpa was from Poland - Gresom Jopfa [44]

Hmm... so "Gersomus Jopfa, saint Gregorius?" Is that then part of his name?

Yes, the other parts I am still working on, but apparently Samuel Jopfa and Anna Spek were from a different place called Manenburg and Anna Adamczyk was from a place called Zetichowo, but its all written pretty small so I could have a letter wrong from the scanned copy. She also scanned another baptism from about two years after my grandfather's of another person with the same grandparents, different parents: Ioannes Kontnik with parents Simonus Kontnik & Anna Jopfa and grandparents Ioannes Kontnik & Anna Adamczyk and Samuel Jopfa & Anna Spek, so a double first cousin of my grandfather it looks like. Then there is a third one for Samuel Drobnik who is the son of Stephanus Drobnik & Judith Jopfa whose parents are R. Drobnik & M. Rybacki and S. Jopfa & A. Spek, which, assuming this last pair is Samuel Jopfa and Anna Spek again, makes him another first cousin.

"MIE.A. RZYM-KATOL.SKA PARAF. DUBLIKAT" is stamped on all three of them like five times. Does that mean anything other than that it's a duplicate copy?

Anyway, I can't find Manenburg on a map and there are several places called Zetichowo, but I think it probably is the Zelichowo (and not Zetichowo) which is really close by. Any thoughts on Manenburg though?

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I wish it would just let me post a new message. But it's Marienburg not Manenburg, just like it was Zelichowo and not Zetichowo. But there were a lot of Marienburgs according to Wikipedia. Any ideas?

Genealogy / My grandpa was from Poland - Gresom Jopfa [44]

Thanks, Wroclaw, it did! I know, I have been looking all morning so far!
Does anyone here know that area? Szczecinek is in an area called West Pomeranian Voivodeship. I'm still not sure where the actual town (or the ruins of it) is in relation to Szczecinek but apparently nearby. Also, from the baptism record (Jews don't have baptisms, do they?) do you or does anybody else know what the "sw. Gregorius" part means? Is that like "nickname Gregorius" or something?

Genealogy / My grandpa was from Poland - Gresom Jopfa [44]



No, evidently you have a lot to learn. The kind of thinking that Jews are an ethnic group and not a religious group is the same kind of thinking that occurred on both sides leading to the Holocaust. Were you educated in the United States or in a country where myths and prejudices continue to be perpetuated to the detriment of all? Or have you bought into some contrived myth of oneness despite an education that would have taught you correctly?

Gersom may be a "Jewish name," but if it is a part of the Bible --which it is-- it's also a Christian name, like, for example, Noah, Benjamin, Samuel, David, Daniel, Elijah, Moses, Adam, Aaron, Elisha, Nathan, Solomon, Joseph, Joshua, Caleb, Jacob, Seth, Eve, Ruth, Rebecca, Rachel, Esther, Elizabeth, Susan, Sharon, et al.

Since there are no atheist names for historical reasons, they are also names of atheists.

If you're so keen on the discredited notion that Jews are an ethnic group, how can you possibly believe that the two quotes of yours above can both be correct? They can't be. Jewishness is passed through the mother in accordance with religious dogma. If, in fact, Judaism was an ethnicity (again, discredited), that wouldn't be true - the child of such a union would be half Jewish. If Judaism is a religion and not an ethnicity, then a person cannot be Jewish because he is a descendant of Jews.

You don't all live in Israel? No kidding, I live in New York City and there are many Jews here. Do you know what their ethnicity is? White Americans, black Americans, Middle Eastern Americans, and others. They all practice Judaism, but I can guarantee you that the black girl who lives next door whose parents came here from Ethiopia and my white Jewish friend whose ancestors have been in America longer than mine sure as heck aren't the same ethnicity.

As it happens, I have now found online my grandfather's immigration record. He came over to New York in 1937 from Poland. What's more is that I found him by his birthday on a baptism record for "Gersomus Jopfa, sw. Gregorius" researched in Poland by a relative I didn't even know about before I began to look on these websites.

My grandfather Harry Juva a.k.a. Gersom(us) Jopfa was the son of Marek Jopfa & Anna Kontnik, and their parents from the baptism record were Samuel Jopfa & Anna Spek "rustici" and Ioannes Kontnik & Anna Adamczyk "rustici." I am told "rustici" means villagers from the town of Stare Miasteczko, which according to my relative online was destroyed in WWII but is about 11 kilometers from the city of Szczecinek.

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That is a very respectable answer and it is not as offensive when there's a good explanation to go along with it. About there being a Jewish nationality, though, there isn't. But I take your point Switezianka. If you don't mind giving an answer, what is your background? Aside from my grandfather, I am a quarter French and half Cuban.

Genealogy / My grandpa was from Poland - Gresom Jopfa [44]

Please don't say that big nose thing, that is so horrible, even if my grandfather is not Jewish. But it is antisemitic and wrong, it's disgusting.

I don't know if he had ancestors who were Jewish, all I know is our family have always been atheists. My grandfather Harry used to call the Christians dumb cows, which I'm sure no one here wants to hear since you all seem so anti-atheist. So that gives you some idea about what he thought of being part of a religion. So even if he had ancestors who were Jews, he was an atheist so it doesn't make sense for him to be called "Jewish" by people who have no idea who he was. Plus, you can't have a "Jewish name" as though it were some kind of other nationality. He was absolutely Polish, if maybe he had a name of another non-Polish origin from some long dead ancestor, I don't know, but that doesn't mean he was any less Polish.

Switerzianka, thank you for putting so much into Polish and Polish Jewish. I am going to go back to Jewishgen and try again with some inquiries. Anyway, I also got a message from another source talking about a Greek Polish variation on the name Gregory, which is also not Gerson/Gersom/Gerszom but is nonetheless Polish. Anyway, you've been big helps so far even if it seems unbelievable that we're getting somewhere.

Genealogy / My grandpa was from Poland - Gresom Jopfa [44]

I'm doing everything wrong? Great....

I was hoping to hear from some more people about their ideas too. I'm thanking you for your help though. I don't understand what you mean -a Jewish name in a Catholic country? How can you have a Jewish name? Judaism is a religion. He was from Poland, not Israel. I didn't know that about Jewishgen though and I am looking at it.

Genealogy / My grandpa was from Poland - Gresom Jopfa [44]

He didn't believe in religion.

Genealogy / My grandpa was from Poland - Gresom Jopfa [44]

No need to scan it, I am 99 percent sure it is Jopfa. It isn't indistinct, I was just conceding there is a possibility it isn't that, but it doesn't really seem like anything but Jopfa.

Gregorz might be just a different version of Gregory. When dealing with the past, I like to keep in mind that what someone who has been there knows often trumps conventional wisdom. In this case, the actual man -Harry, Gregory, Gersom- explained it and I am persuaded he probably knew what he was talking about when it came to his own name.

Any luck on the town of Masteshca / Mastetchca / Mastishca / Mastitchca?

Genealogy / My grandpa was from Poland - Gresom Jopfa [44]

No, he always pointed out that his name was a form of Gregory from Poland before he changed it to Harry. No he wasn't Jewish, he was a solid atheist - very well rooted in reason and science.

And no, it's actually split on the form where he wrote prior names as first name Gersom and last name Jopfa ... I guess it could be Sopfa or Topfa based on the writing, but that wouldn't make as much sense as Jopfa which you could see how it could become Juva.

Genealogy / My grandpa was from Poland - Gresom Jopfa [44]

Yeah, of course I did look into that right away. With what I have there are some old Polish little books, although I'm sure my Aunt Arlene has more (but she's unlikely to share it). Of course it's impossible for me to read the books since they aren't in English. Little leather bound ones. Of course, and it's a good idea anyway.

Also interested in what Swettianklia has to say when she has a chance.

Genealogy / My grandpa was from Poland - Gresom Jopfa [44]

Hey, that was a good idea about the military records since my grandfather was a Navy scientist. And I looked in his box and she was right that the name wasn't Juva with a V. Where it says previous names he has Gresom Jopfa and that's what became Harry Juva. Still have to figure out about the town of Masteshca though.

It's really something since if we didn't have this conversation I wouldn't have ever known my maiden name was actually Jopfa and not Juva. I can't imagine why he would spell it so different.

In a some ways related issue, I am very interested in world cultures. In college, I studied over in Thailand. A good way to introduce yourself to the culture of a place is through its cuisine. What's a good place to learn about the kinds of food and drink my grandfather would have had growing up in Poland? The only thing I remember him making often was roast beef and potato hash. Gotta find out more...

Genealogy / My grandpa was from Poland - Gresom Jopfa [44]

If I add his picture here maybe someone else might recognize him.

I also reread it, but I can't add to it yet. This is very fascinating since it cracks the wall a little but I don't think we can jump to conclusions about the name Juva vs. Juwa. They might not be related.

If the town could be pinned down it would be easier to figure out on the web. Hopefully she will have an idea about the real spelling of the town.

• 
  Harry Juva, born in Poland as Gersom (Polish Gregory) Juva, 84 in 1994
  

Genealogy / My grandpa was from Poland - Gresom Jopfa [44]

Yeah that's right his original name was Gregory (actually the Polish version of Gerson) Juva but he changed it to Harry Juva when he came to New York City.

Do you have any idea where Masteshca is?
I don't know how it's spelled. That's just how it sounds when it gets said.