News / Poland..wake up to a multicultural world [1059]


My grandmother was a Catholic but I am not. Christianity was an integral part of British culture but not these days. I, like many Brits, have no meaningful cultural connection with Christianity whatsoever.


English and Polish are nothing like each other. How you can descibe


as a cultural bond is beyond me.


This is a relevant cultural similarity? My football team is called Renaissance, but that's about as far as it goes. Britain colonised the world, Poland was effectively colonised. How is that a similar history?


Having spent this Christmas in Poland, I know how different our respective celebrations are. We don't even celebrate it on the same day!!

Either way, arguing that you don't mind opening Poland's borders to Europeans, based on the fact that they celebrate the same festival, is a bit tenuous don't you think?


No it isn't (see above)


I believe in equality for homosexuals and freedom of choice in regards to abortion. I also believe that the use of contraception should be actively encouraged. Do you agree with me? Does the average Pole agree with me?


Sorry, I was under the impression that you have been to the UK. Obviously not. No Muslim has ever tried to convert me, and I know a hell of a lot of them. Funnily enough, the only people who have tried are Jehovah's witnesses and some prick on Oxford St with a megaphone, who has since been handed an ASBO for pissing shoppers off (He is a Christian btw).

Gone on, tell us the real reason why you prefer "native" Europeans...

News / Poland..wake up to a multicultural world [1059]


Muslims? So your media example speaks for the entire Muslim population?

How about I take my example of the prick in Oxford St, (anyone who has been there will know who I'm talking about) and use that as proof that all Christians try to convert people?

While we're at it: timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article5711595.ece


What if some mad Catholic started preaching that contraception does not prevent AIDS? Would you beat the sh1t out of him? No, you encourage these savages.

You are bigoted hypocrite and you can't even see it.

Have you ever been to the UK?

News / Poland..wake up to a multicultural world [1059]



Your original point (quoted) made no reference to violence, only conversion. I merely posted an article about Christians trying to convert non-Christians in the UK. Why do you have a problem with Muslims doing this but not Christians? For a non-religious person like myself, a Christian trying to convert me would be just as annoying as a Muslim doing so.

If your point was purely about conversion through violence then I wholly agree with you; It should not be tolerated. I would also point out that if you are actually suggesting that forced conversion to Islam through violence is a common practice amongst the 2 million or so Muslims living in the UK, then you are a complete idiot with no knowledge of your subject matter. Surely you weren't suggesting that Sokrates?


What about a hard working Muslim who respects the law of Poland and contributes to society like any other decent person? What if he is a doctor who comes to Poland and works saving Polish lives? Is he welcome? If not, Why not? Because he doesn't celebrate Christmas?

I hate bigoted religious fundamentalists as much as the next person. I have no time for Sharia Law and oppose its introduction to British society. I do not agree with arranged marriages (although some perceptions of them are completely wrong), and I think the sort of people who picket soldiers homecoming parades are the scum of the earth. I also despise people who discriminate against homosexuals based on their backward religious beliefs (that one isn't just restricted to fundamentalist Islam). Despising the above is completely different to pigeon-holing an entire group of people based on the idea that they all conform to the above. Quite simply put: Not all Muslims are backward fundamentalists.

Come to East London Sokrates, I can introduce you to a number of decent Muslims who work hard, respect the law and integrate in to society. Granted they probably wouldn't want to spent so much as 5 minutes with a horrible little rascist such as yourself, but who could really blame them?


I think this hits the nail firmly on the head. It's got nothing to do with culture. I have clearly demonstrated that our cultures are completely different, yet you would accept me in Poland because I am white European (actually my great-grandfather was a Jew so I guess you probably wouldn't welcome me). It simply boils down to skin colour which simply makes you a racist. You try to justify your views by somehow suggesting that every Muslim has a ton of semtex under their bed, waiting to carry out Allah's commands, but once again, only an idiot would believe that.

There are people in the UK who believe the Polish are inferior based on misonceptions about their culture. These people are no worse than you.


You completely miss my point. The respective languages may have some similarities, but that does not act as a cultural bond. I could not hold a conversation with my girlfriend's parents when I went to Poland at Christmas. Aside from understanding the odd word/phrase, they might as well have been speaking Bengali to me.

News / Poland..wake up to a multicultural world [1059]


I like it Sokrates, although it's a bit unusual to promote a law which would see yourself locked up for 25+ years. I guess you must enjoy the thought of all that shower time.


I can't quite work it out. He's either being serious and is therefore one of the most ignorant people I have ever encountered, or he is on a total wind-up and the joke is on us! I would like to think it's the latter but I suspect not.


If you want to debate something without making racist slurs then go ahead. I could debate/b1tch about immigration, asylum and abuse of the benefits system all day without turning it in to a race issue.


Why not extend this law to everyone in Germany? Deport all of the scum? Or just deport the brown scum?

News / Poland..wake up to a multicultural world [1059]


That figure is clearly rubbish, but let's role with it. You believe that an entire family (clan)should be deported if one family member breaks the law? Would this proposed law extend to the tiny majority of white German criminals (the 1% if you like), or is it a law based on discrimination?

What if a family of Poles (say 3 generations) comes to live and work in Germany, and the 18 year grandson old is caught with a small amount of cannabis (a clear breach of the law)? Should the entire family be deported back to Poland? What if the same situation was applied to a family of Turks?

News / Poland..wake up to a multicultural world [1059]


Well I guess you can answer my hypothetical question then?


I support immigration/asylum reform as do many Brits I'm sure. Peronally I just refuse to do this by promoting laws which disriminate based on race. It's really a very simple concept.


You have just surpassed yourself HB. I honestly didn't think you could post anything more stupid than some of the sh1t you have already come out with but congratulations, you just have.

News / Poland..wake up to a multicultural world [1059]


No problem with that at all, as long as it is extended to every immigrant. But you don't think it should be:



Regardless of how many crimes in Germany are committed by Poles, why do you think they should receive a different punishment to Turks, Aabs etc? Can you not see how this could be deemed a racist position to take?


I think the answer to the above is obvious.

Why doesn't Germany curb immigration from the countries in question? Why doesn't Germany base it's immigration criteria on employment skills? Why doesn't Germany punish its criminals properly? Why do European countries accept asylum seakers at all? There is clearly a problem (as there is in Britain), and these are the questions which need to be adressed. The answer is not to implement racist policies which discriminate against current citizens of the country.

Crack down on crime, immigration etc by all means, but the moment you start creating laws which discriminate against your own citizens (3rd generation Turks for example) based purely on their religion/ethnicity, then you are playing a very dangerous game. I would have thought this would be obvious to you given Germany's recent history!


If you are honestly suggesting that the following explanation of British immigration policy holds merit then... well... I despair.

News / Poland..wake up to a multicultural world [1059]

Whilst I don't dispute the above, I would point out that we openly accept non-Muslim individuals who are connected to groups which have blown up civilians. What's worse is that we have elected such individuals/groups.

Love / If a guy was nice? [42]


This is PF, what do you expect?


amen.


That maybe true, but it's hardly a justification for spouting racist bile.

As per my earlier post, this entire thread is the clearest example of a fishing exercise you will see.

Love / If a guy was nice? [42]


That's not the point. Deepak is an internet troll on a wind-up. He may or may not have brown skin but he is a brain-dead bigot on a fishing trip (the delightful PM I just received from him confirms as much).

I'm not digging you out, I was just wondering why you feel the need to stoop to his level? You didn't criticise the bigotry of his posts, you just responded with a load of equally bigoted bile!

Love / If a guy was nice? [42]


Yep, Leytonstone (or New Johannesburg).


No, I haven't noticed many. I do have a friend who is in a black/Polish relationship though.

News / Should Poles become a minority in Poland? [150]


How old are you talking?

Even prior to the more recent waves of immigration, England (or the English people) constituted a mixture of Celts, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Norse, and Normans.

There are some rather obvious physical differences between Vikings and Celts.

News / Should Poles become a minority in Poland? [150]


None at all? What about my ethnic group? My family has lived in England for many many generations but I am white with dark hair? Are you honestly suggesting that all white English people are from the same ethnic group?

Are Poles and Germans from the same ethnic group? They're both white European. Right?


My sister goes out with an "ethnic" Turk. He was born in England (doesn't quite qualify as per your 6 generation rule) but he is as culturally British as Fish and Chips. There are no noticeable psychological, religious, mental or cultural differences whatsoever. Ethnicity does not determine character. Had he been born and raised in Turkey, the situation might be different.


Some people just make no effort and simply prefer to characterise people through physical differences. This is an ignorant thing to do.

News / Should Poles become a minority in Poland? [150]



Most of what you claim is written with pure ignorance. Where I come from, there are many people who are ethnically diverse yet enjoy a shared culture. I know many a second generation turk in London who lives their life just like an "indigenous" white person.

As for forcefull conversion, please stop embarrassing yourself. You make yourself look like a total fool by claiming that this is a common occurence in Britain. It really is pathetic.


Even the Polish ones? You ever been to London son?

I live in a very prosperous, middle class areas of London which has many Turks, Pakistanis, Greeks, Indians, blacks living there. Most Poles live in poorer areas. That is a fact.


Says it all really. "Scum" doesn't quite cover it.

News / Should Poles become a minority in Poland? [150]

Quite intentionally I might add.

News / Should Poles become a minority in Poland? [150]


But there are Polish slums right?


You've heard these remarks in the privacy of English homes? Mr Sokrates, the bullcrap is all yours. Of course some English people don't like minorities, but guess what, that includes Poles. I guess they don't confirm to your hierarchy of ethnic bigotry.


No it's not. Stop embarrassing yourself.

It's definitely not as common as white people putting cocaine up their nose and shoving glasses in to other people's faces in town centres all over England on a Friday/Saturday night. I wouldn't however for one second suggest that this is a predominent facet of English culture.


Or vice versa?


Ok, so you don't have a problem with people who feel the same about Poles in Britain?

News / Should Poles become a minority in Poland? [150]


Nothing imo. But then I attach very little (if any) importance to ethnicity. Judging the inidvidual is paramount, and making blanket generalisations about people based on their ethnicity directly contradicts this ideal.

News / Should Poles become a minority in Poland? [150]


You are referring to Americans of Polish descent right? Even so, I doubt that the above can be applied to every Polish community in the States.

Maybe I just took season 2 of The Wire too literally ;-)

News / Should Poles become a minority in Poland? [150]


I presume this is the fault of successive governements? I wonder why you would vote for a government that allows unrestricted immigration from third world nations.

News / Should Poles become a minority in Poland? [150]

workpermit.com/news/2008-01-17/uk/overview-points-scoring-united-kingdom-tiered-immigration-system.htm

There is a problem with permitting asylum seekers from war-torn countries to stay in the UK. Such people are unlikely to integrate quickly, but that is different issue entirely. There are abuses of the immigration system (dodgy marriages and student status etc.) but the system is designed to encourage immigration to the UK based on skills and merit rather than ethnicity.

Which is exactly how it should be imho.

News / Should Poles become a minority in Poland? [150]


Good post but there's little point offering rational argument to a bigot.

News / Should Poles become a minority in Poland? [150]


They are not mutually exclusive positions, so I'm not sure I understand your point.


Is it? You could at least quote me. I've never made that point to the best of my knowledge.

My point is that in a civilised country, a law abiding person should be free to go about their business, free from discrimination based on perceived ethnic stereotypes. As a member of the EU, where Poles are afforded the right to reside and work across Europe (in most cases free from such discrimination), their citizens would do well to remember this.

I just find the whole argument regarding "Poland staying Polish" to be a little absurd. The number of people who use Britain as an example of decay, overun with foreigners and losing its identity make me laugh. Especially when some of those complaining are foreigners who have come to Britain to live and work. It's kind of like me retiring to my villa in the South of Spain, sitting there with my copy of The Sun, speaking English and eating my full English Breakfast, moaning about vast numbers of Moroccans eating away at the Spanish identity.

You can't have your cake and eat it.


**Seeing as some Poles living in Britain are alcoholic, pike plundering scum who refuse to integrate properly by learning English, surely it would be easier for the UK to not let in any of them?

You talk of Europeization, but the simple fact is that some parts of Europe are more backward than others. Why should an economically advanced state like Britain accept immigrants from the backwaters of Eastern Europe? Especially when these people are culturally inferior.

Some people in Britain view Poles in the same way as Muslims or blacks I'm afraid Sokrates. The simply solution is to deny entry to all immigrants. I mean what's good for Poland is good for Britain right?**

**Ironic post. Not to be taken literally**

UK, Ireland / Polish Spitfire shoots down BNP [63]


Man invents wheel.

News / Should Poles become a minority in Poland? [150]


And most parts of Poland.


I've sone no such thing. Your arguments often rely on blatent lies and that particular remark pretty much sums you up.


LMFAO - Keep telling yourself that ;)))


Adherence to outdated religious ideals... The same thing you accuse Muslims of.


Yes of course Sokrates, all Blacks and Muslims are murderers who try to forcefuly convert people to their religion. And of course, all Poles in Britain are good law-abiding citizens:

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-535052/How-Polish-killers-drug-smugglers-rapists-run-Britain-sent-home-Con-Air-flights.html

Nothing like a bit of balance in an argument, but I know that doesn't fit well with your particular agenda.

Life / Queering Krakow's Culture - Same-sex pairs of iconic Greek sculptures [16]


That's definitely not my cup of tea. It's a good job nobody forced me to attend such an event.


Spot on. With the economic benefit and freedom of movement and employment that the EU offers, comes a certain pressure to relinquish the rather antiquated principles associated with backward cultures/beliefs. It's one of the reasons that Turkey struggles for membership.

You can't have your cake and eat it.

UK, Ireland / Polish Spitfire shoots down BNP [63]


Easier said than done.

UK, Ireland / Polish Spitfire shoots down BNP [63]


I guess if you have no outgoings for rent c/tax etc. then you don't need all that much, but you're right. I could not survive on £60 p/w, even without a mortgage and bills. Some council tenants have their gas/electricity/water covered in a low weekly service charge, and some private tenants have their bills included in their rent covered by the Local Housing Allowance scheme.


Working Tax Credit is an incentive to work, but it only does so much.

Consider that Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit are reduced by a percentage of excess income (65% for HB and 20% for CTB), then the extra £200 p/w that someone will earn through actually working as oposed to claiming JSA will be swallowed up by rent and council tax costs. Then you consider that travel expenses (in London at least) can be £40 p/w then you have the following situation:

Sit at home all day with all of your rent and Council Tax paid and £60 p/w for personal use

or

Work 50 hours per week, earn £270 p/w, but have to pay £130 p/w towards your rent, All of your c/tax (£30 p/w) and £40 p/w towards weekly travel costs, thus leaving you with £70 p/w for personal use!!

Tough choice!!!

Even if the above receives an extra £60 p/w of WTC, £40 of that will go on their rent costs (rents in certain parts of London are astronomical), leaving them with an extra £20 in their pocket.

Who in their right mind would go to work for 50 hours a week for an extra £30?

What is the answer? We could start with refusing to pay HB to people who live in expensive parts of London, although I doubt that would be particularly popular given the ever increasing number of redundancies!

UK, Ireland / Polish Spitfire shoots down BNP [63]


I don't think a great deal has changed since then unfortuntely.

UK, Ireland / Polish Spitfire shoots down BNP [63]


I know people like that but they are few and far between unfortunately.


Spot-on, but an incentivised system would help.


How about £45 p/w per child!!

If she lived in central London, she would be entitled to a Housing Benefit allowance of up to £2000 per week. Why don't you just go and find yourself a nice 6-bedroom house down the Kings Road luv?

All tax-payers money.


If rents are that high, then why is the claimant living in such an area? I couldn't afford to live there earning decent money, so why should a benefit claimant be able to on tax-payers money?

UK, Ireland / Polish Spitfire shoots down BNP [63]


Sounds like a plan. PM me if you want your HB application fast-tracked ;)