News / SHOULD POLAND/EUROPE BE WORRIED ABOUT RUSSIA?? [90]

As I post before on these forums there is one big geopolitical issue between Russia and Poland. It is unfortunate but it is reality.
So, once again: the name of that issue is future of Ukraine and Belarus.
Poland see this countries as future members of UE or at least strong and independent democracies. Russia see them as future members of some multinational entity lead by Russia or at least dependent countries. For both countries this is a critical issue, so this conflict extrapolate on other things. For last couple of years there are clearly visible trends:

- in Russia policy towards Poland - prevent Poland from growing bigger in economical and political sense (mainly in EU forum)
- in Poland policy towards Russia - prevent Russia from entering central european markets, blocking Russia in EU.

Obviously Poland is much weaker in that game. We are still playing only because EU leverage and strong support for independence in Ukraine. Belarus is almost lost. So, yes, from that point of view Poland can be worried about Russia.

PS. Can we be friends? I hope so, but I'll believe in that when Kaliningrad become kind of Hongkong. Now it still is like one enormous air craft, obviously something to worry about.

History / Polish Anti-semitism - origins? [186]

Some good stuff here, let me throw few more general reasons (and some of this was working not only in Poland but in all Europe):

- traditional jews couldn't mix with not jews, so they never trully integrated with the rest of the population,
- they kept their own language, moreover most of them came to Poland trough Germany so they also used much of German words
- Jews were mostly merchants and craftsmen, they mostly lived in the towns, Poles mostly were farmers. So when industralization took place, Jews were better positioned and richer,

- Poland was for a long time occupied (mainly XIX), because Jews weren't integrated they didn't care much about it. So simple "who is not with us is against us" was working in Polish minds,

- and for most centuries important "christianity versus older brothers in faith" but not only in a way you think of. In "Pillars of Earth" by Ken Follet, which of course is not historic but fabular book, there is nonetheless interesting passage: <Some knight wanted money, what did he do? He borrow it from some Jews>, because Jews were for long time important part of banking system. If some bishop needed money he borrow it too. From time to time, when they had to pay off debt, they just unleashed propaganda in churches about this "diabolic jews" in consequence there were riots, many Jews were killed, and few of the dead ones accidentally was bankers. For nobility problem was solved, but hatred stayed. (If I remeber properly one of true reasons of drive out Jews from Spain in XIV century was debts and fight for reign.)

In begining of XX century Jews in Poland actually started to trully integrate. More and more of them started to be just a citizen with different religion. Many of the greatest Polish artists and scientist were Jews in that time. And that was the case in all Europe. THE SAD thing is that WWII happend and destroyed that.

PS. Bratwurst Boy: "Why do you think the world is focusing on Poles..."
Simply because you tricky Germans choose Poland as a main place for concentration camps... So many not very good educated foreigners tends to write about "Polish concentration camps". Very clever indeed, that and this funny idea that WWII and all this attrocities was commited by nazist not Germans... There is actually a lot of Germans that trully belive in that crap :-)

History / Polish Anti-semitism - origins? [186]

Thanks Seanus, my English is what it is... Sometimes I just have to make comment and hope not to make to many errors :-) But if you have in mind that part about "Germans beliefs" then unfortunately present time is necessary. (unless you have in mind some gramatic rule regarding past tense). Not so long ago (few years?) in Germany there was quite a discovery. They found out that Wermacht actually did similar stuff that SS. Better late than never...

PS. about this "Polish camps", it happens all the time. Now, when it happens, proper Polish embassy makes protest, usually journalist appologize, but not always. Recently even name for camp in Unesco was changed, from

"Concentration Camp Auschwitz" for "German Nazi Concentration and Extermination Camp".
We will see if that helps.

History / Polish Anti-semitism - origins? [186]

If that was rather meant sarcastically then sorry Bratwurst Boy, my english sucks too... :-)
Mine "tricky Germans" was too rather meant sarcastically... But not in the whole. Planned or not, it is what it is. Typical foreign tourist in Poland is like this:

1. Krakow
2. Wieliczka
3. Auschwitz-Birkenau

And then he/she return home and make blog about trip and write:
"uhhh, I was in Polish concentration camp, very tough experience. How could they do things like that..."

PS. Thanks DtLebowski

History / Polish Anti-semitism - origins? [186]

yehudi, I didn't say Jews are saying that. The last accident I can remeber was some Canadian journalist. It isn't of course main problem, that is why originally I post it in PS. section.

Seanus about this brainwashing. I didn't want to imply that Germans believe in "Polish concentration camps". I've wrote:
"Very clever indeed, that and this funny idea that WWII and all this attrocities was commited by nazist not Germans... There is actually a lot of Germans that trully belive in that crap :-)"

What I mean is that in Germany you can still encounter people strongly beliving that there was honourable Wehrmacht and diabolic SS. Germans vs Nazi contradiction.

Which is false. I'm aware that Germans after war went trully through some kind of purgatory and I respect that. But this soldiers, fathers, brothers and uncles from army went back home. And from things I've read they were like "we don't talk about it, we were simple soldiers". It is understandable, everybody has to live with oneself. But because of that, again what I've read, some kind of false dichotomy was born. Only recently, probably beacause all this old men are simply dying, this dichotomy is falling down. So if we can use term brainwashing, then it would be brainwashing on the family level, kind of big family secret.

PS. And again it was only in PS section, I didn't intend to make from it big issue on that thread

History / Polish Anti-semitism - origins? [186]

"Puzzler: What are the origins of the Jewish hate of the Poles?"
Well... that is harsh question... First and simple there was (still is) some anti-semitism in Poland. It is working in both directions like third Newton rule. But this is simplification.

What move me the most in this regard was some documentary about couple of old Jews on the trip in Poland. The question was: "What do you fell in Poland, what do you think about Poland?". The answer was in short:

1. for them Poland is one big cementery, and in some way we are walking on theirs ancestors graves
2. they bear a grudge against Poles, I understood because Poles didn't protect them (in general, Jews)
After such tragedy emotions are stronger than rationality, they knew about it, but they couldn't change what they have felt. I think that this feeling is transfering on younger generation. But younger generation has no connection with Poland, and not every young Jew has enough of will to learn that:

ad.1 Poland is even bigger cementary for Poles, but we will still live here exactly because of that
ad.2 6000 from 22000 trees in Yad Vashem are trees for Poles.
During the German occupation in Poland if somebody was hiding Jews, punishment for that was death. Unfortunatelly in real live number of heroes is limited.

History / Polish Anti-semitism - origins? [186]

Puzzler, I've wonder if I should answer you or not, because it seems to me that you could be a troll, and the main rule is "don't feed the trolls". But maybe I'm wrong, so I've post this and will see what happens. It would be great dissapoiment if my concerns will confirm because that thread become quite interesting. So:

<
First and simple there was (still is) some anti-semitism in Poland.
Puzzler - And what do you specifically mean in the above statement, what facts? Give them.
>
From personal view: persons in my family which just are against Jews but don't know why. In general, wall descriptions, Jewish cementery vandalizm what happens from time to time. But to make you feel better, from my perspective it is vanishing thing, and is nothing like in France for example but from different reasons.

<1. for them Poland is one big cementery, and in some way we are walking on theirs ancestors graves
Puzzler - And what do you specifically mean by that? IS Poland in reality such a cemetery, or ISN'T? In what way are you and others (you refer to you all as 'we') walking 'on theirs ancestors graves' [sic]? Give facts.

>

"Poland as a big cementery" - such sentence is called metaphor. The fact is, that almost entire Jewish population was killed on our land, and it is enough of facts to make such metaphor. But if you try read all my previous post you will see that I'm against such view of my homeland, I just understand their (some Jews) position in that matter.

<"they bear a grudge against Poles, I understood because Poles didn't protect them (in general, Jews)
- Is the 'grudge' justified by facts, or not?
>
Again if you try read all my post you will see, that I don't agree with that view, but I understand emotional background here.

Thats all, now enough of your questions, answer me the same questions you've make to me. Give me some proper argumentation and discuss in cultural manner. Show me that you are not a troll.

History / Polish Anti-semitism - origins? [186]

Puzzler I've wrote you could be, now I'm sure you are a troll.
Everyone, pls don't feed him, I'm sorry that I was feeding him. I'm affraid this thread is lost.

"PS. You allege I did not exhibit 'cultural manners' while talking with you. Where, when? Give the facts."
I saw how did you talk with the others, that is enough for me. One cann't be cultural partially.

History / Polish Anti-semitism - origins? [186]

Everyone who don't know or forget, definition of internet troll is here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

Just please don't feed him, it is the only way (if you are not an admin).
Conversation is pointless.

History / Polish Anti-semitism - origins? [186]


It was a Pyrrhic victory. Poland history was written by Soviet Union and local communists for fifty years.

News / Polish engineer beheaded in Pakistan. [347]

Many people here says "Islam - religion of peace" or "most muslims are moderate".
It is just not true, at least from outside view...
There are over bilion of them. Why there are only "moderate muslims" and fanatical muslim terrorists? Where is big group of fair and noisy muslisms? Ok, maybe there are a few, but A FEW in over bilion population ?! Why, if this big "moderate" group is so peaceful and just, there are no "march for peace" or "march against fanaticism" organized and attended mostly by muslims? When some draughtsman did funny picture with Muhhamad, then was big outrage, where is this outrage now, when innocent man was killed?

FOR OUTSIDERS MUSLIMS LOOKS LIKE BIG MASS OF SECRET ADMIRERS OF MUSLIM TERRORISTS.

When someone is silent then his/her voice doesn't count!

USA, Canada / Senate Approves $838 Billion Economic Recovery Package [9]

It doesn't look good. I recommend you this site: market-ticker.denninger.net

It seems to me that this guy knows what he is talking about. I hope he is wrong... but if he is right then America will end in Depression. I wonder how it will influence Poland. Not only economical, but also for example what will happen with NATO?

What he points out today is news from Bloomberg which says:

"China should seek guarantees that its $682 billion holdings of U.S. government debt won't be eroded by "reckless policies," said Yu Yongding, a former adviser to the central bank.

The U.S. "should make the Chinese feel confident that the value of the assets at least will not be eroded in a significant way," Yu, who now heads the World Economics and Politics Institute at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, said in response to e-mailed questions yesterday from Beijing. He declined to elaborate on the assurances needed by China, the biggest foreign holder of U.S. government debt."

What will US do when Chinese stop buying treasuries? FED cann't buy everything (it is already buying some of it!)

News / More and more jobs moving to Poland from other parts of Europe... [50]

Poland is and will be for some time a place with cheap labour. Wasn't it the same in Ireland twenty years ago? I feel sorry for people in Limerick, but at the same time I'm happy that Lodz will get some new jobs... Nothing is for ever in this world...

News / More and more jobs moving to Poland from other parts of Europe... [50]


They will not all move to asia. The reason for that is duty... There is a lot of talking about free trade but in reality EU is very good in defending internal EU market. Especially during crisis I don't see any new successful WTO meetings. I think that in the long view some tax equality among competing countries in EU is inevitable.

PS. Important thing is that Dell isn't european company. So we shouldn't worry about Dell, we should rather think what should we do to have in europe more companies like Nokia. I mean companies which are modern and originate in Europe. I think EU should support biotechnology sector. I'm from IT sector but I think future belongs to biotechnology.

News / More and more jobs moving to Poland from other parts of Europe... [50]


Public help plus I believe somewhere there: ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/customs/index_en.htm

you can find out that tax for parts is lower than tax for finished electronic goods.
At least that was the case in the past.


I think that is the price for english as an international language :-)
There are not many Indians speaking polish, german, dutch... :-)
I assure you that at least in Poland we don't plan to accept english as an official language, so call centers for polish customers are safe :-)

PS. Hm... curiosity is that recently in Poland opened up call centers for European customers... For example HP opened such branch in Wroclaw for French customers...

History / Why communism failed in Poland? [275]

The problem with communism is, that everywhere it was introduced with some military power and everywhere there is/was some kind of dictatorship. From ancient times, every dictatorship fails sooner or later. There is no long term stability without freedom.

Communism in Poland failed because it was introduced by Soviets = external dictatorship.
When soviets failed, their puppets in Poland failed too.


Man, what a bullshit... The only things USSR built in Poland was "Palace of Culture" and military bases... Yes, Poland was devastated, but Poles rebuilt it, nobody else...

Ok, Poland got part of Germany, and lost territory on the east, but before Poland got it, Russians took away every single screw from factories there. Wroclaw (Brezlau) in 1945 was a desert in very essence of this world.


Hm... where have you been between 1989 - 2000? During this period Russia had even bigger problems than Poland, Czechs, Hungary... It is obviously quite contrary to your statement


what can you say then about even more agrarian Russia in 1917? :-)

History / Why communism failed in Poland? [275]


Where did find these revelations? Only because Poles were ruled by communists doesn't mean, that everything Poles build in Poland between 1945-1989, counts as "brotherly support". And yes, there were some Soviets on contracts in Poland, but there were also Poles on contracts in USSR. Usually it wasn't for free...


Well, this palace is not so bad, there is nice view from a top, if you know what I mean ;-)

History / Why communism failed in Poland? [275]


Well, I know... In fact I really like "Palace of Culture" and I'm not eating in McDonald, but...


OMG! One Palace of Culture is enough!

Hm... maybe Palace of Culture wasn't the greatest architectural communist sin.
The worst was Great Plate(?) = Wielka Płyta. I think we need at least another fifty years to get rid of that....

PS. Juche, are you really from North Korea ?! Man, you have a communist masterpiece in NK, don't you?:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryugyong_Hotel

It is AWESOME ;-)

History / Why communism failed in Poland? [275]


Man... I'm really hoping you are joking, but if not, that's interesting:
Have you been paid for work? I see volunteer, but anyway, have you been paid?

History / Why communism failed in Poland? [275]

You mean you have been working for free ?!? Some would called that slavery, but maybe only because it looks like Egyptian piramid...
Who do you (as a nation) plan to bury there?

History / Why communism failed in Poland? [275]


Maybe... but I think that the most important is a fact that in 80' oil prices went down.
It killed USSR, because it was sources driven economy. I think Gajdar did nice article somewhere about it.

The same thing is now with Russia, but at least there is no weapon race, and they have big cash reserves. This time they will survive I think.


:-)

History / Why communism failed in Poland? [275]


Hm.. Warsaw has one line but this line has more stations that yours two combined :-)
This red line is metro:

Warsaw lines

In fact neither of this two cities can be proud of their metro net :-) Fifty years of communism.... It is not like during communism nothing is build... The problem is that much less usable things is build because of misallocation of resources. Juche think about this big hotel of yours? Wasn't it a waste? so many years for what? Some concrete skyrocket? You could build third metro line instead...

History / Why communism failed in Poland? [275]

Ok Juche, I surrender...


?
Maybe some good czech humour could help you, any Czech on forum?
I think you should read "Adventures of good soldier szwejk"... It would give you an idea what I think about "march to drill music"...

News / Most important invention made in Poland [53]

Reverse Polish Notation: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_Polish_notation

More interesting things there: powells.com/biblio?isbn=9780792322931

Here something I hope I will understand some day: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banach-Tarski_paradox
:-)

History / Why communism failed in Poland? [275]


Isn't that a perfect description of current China?

History / Why communism failed in Poland? [275]


Yeah... this worked out perfectly on Siberia... so many cultures mix together.
From Pole point of view the only difference between German fascism and Soviet Union communism during Stalin rule was in scale and instruments used for slavery and extermination. Fortunately after Stalin it was mostly only kind of slavery.

I have to say that Soviets were much cleverer, especially regarding propaganda. I cann't believe so many people still believes in that system, especially french "intellectuals".

We can argue for what extent soviet type of communism was real communism,
but it is insanity to claim that this system was working and was benefiting simple man.


It Poland quality of food was much better to, at least between 1978 - 1989. During that time shops were empty, so people used to get food straight from relatives in the village

(if someone was lucky enough to have them)... :-) So this was very ecological food...

History / Why communism failed in Poland? [275]


Well if it is the most realest then there is no hope for communism.
Communism has a tiny chance only if there is no personality cult. NK doesn't pass that test.
If real communism is some kind of optimum point, then NK is aproaching it from the wrong direction something like -1/n where n->infinity...

So I have to disagree with you Juche, I think that the most realest communism is in Sweden they are like 1/n where n->infinity... I hope that they will stop at some point because you know they will clash with you, o wait that is impossible, well at least they will be very close to you, if you don't stop that madness :-)

PS. Juche, did you get that book I've recomended you? You really need it :-)

History / Why communism failed in Poland? [275]


OMG... I've really started to believe that you are from NK, now I finally see you are joking :-)

History / Why communism failed in Poland? [275]


The problem is that Russia wanted to inherit only this what was good in USSR, in symbolic level as well (national anthem for example...). No other past soviet state do that (?)...

Because of that there is still a lot of "white stains" in Russian history books (I only heard about it, didn't see). Because of that there is for example this unnecessary obstruction regarding Katyn in Russian court.

Simply put: you cann't just take what was good and forget what was bad, and start saying around the world how tragic it was that USSR collapsed (Putin). It is simply incoherent message.


Germany... They have some pull back recently, but still they've managed with their past quite well. Personally I don't require from Russia any big moves, just this constant denial is tiring. Of course important factor here is time... to many important people in soviets era are still alive.

History / Why communism failed in Poland? [275]


I must be my terrible english :-)
For example (simplifacation):
USSR made Sputnik, this was great achievement, so Russians used to say: "we did that".
USSR made Gulag, this was terrible thing, Russians used to say: "it wasn't our ancestors fault, it was this evil outsiders. Stalin? Stalin was from Georgia!".

And so on.. This process lead to idealization of USSR. In that way history is rewritten.
Putin indeed said that USSR collapse was great tragedy...

So, Russians cann't expect that other nations will accept Russia as a heir apparent of USSR achivements without taking USSR faults.