Ystad
27 Jul 2008
Ystad
29 Jul 2008
Language / Verb forms and conjugation [28]
Hi ArcticPaul,
It sounds as if we're pretty much at the same level. I'm relying on Bielec's helpful 'Basic Polish' and I agree that '301' really is a lifesaver....
It's pretty much "2 steps forward; 1.9999 steps back" for me at the moment - it feels more like a code than a language at this stage, but I'm really enjoying it! I hope it's going well for you too.
Hi ArcticPaul,
It sounds as if we're pretty much at the same level. I'm relying on Bielec's helpful 'Basic Polish' and I agree that '301' really is a lifesaver....
It's pretty much "2 steps forward; 1.9999 steps back" for me at the moment - it feels more like a code than a language at this stage, but I'm really enjoying it! I hope it's going well for you too.
Ystad
22 Sep 2008
Language / Instrumental form in Polish [65]
I'd certainly like to read Switezianka's explanation here, if possible! And I'm very grateful to her for introducing me to the word 'rheme':)
My own stumbling thoughts on the subject are that being "the biggest obstacle" is an aspect/characteristic of "Church", but this cannot apply vice versa.
Perhaps in the same way, in Pawel jest prawnikiem, being "a lawyer" is an aspect/characteristic of Pawel, but "Pawel" cannot conceptually be an aspect/characteristic of being "a lawyer". Of course, you could have an emphatic sentence, "The lawyer is Pawel", but perhaps that is too "demonstrative" (?) to invoke the instrumental... Prawnik, to Pawel ???!
Anyway, my head hurts! Thanks for a helpful thread:)
I'd certainly like to read Switezianka's explanation here, if possible! And I'm very grateful to her for introducing me to the word 'rheme':)
My own stumbling thoughts on the subject are that being "the biggest obstacle" is an aspect/characteristic of "Church", but this cannot apply vice versa.
Perhaps in the same way, in Pawel jest prawnikiem, being "a lawyer" is an aspect/characteristic of Pawel, but "Pawel" cannot conceptually be an aspect/characteristic of being "a lawyer". Of course, you could have an emphatic sentence, "The lawyer is Pawel", but perhaps that is too "demonstrative" (?) to invoke the instrumental... Prawnik, to Pawel ???!
Anyway, my head hurts! Thanks for a helpful thread:)
Ystad
20 May 2009
Language / Piotr trwał w drwiącym wietrze [7]
Hello Czwartek,
I had lots of difficulty cracking this... Initially, this was because I was trying to create the trill effect in the back of the throat, in the French gutteral way. A very good teacher explained that the Polish 'r-r-r-r' actually comes from just behind the teeth, with the front of the tongue flapping loose as the air passes over it. It took me ages, but she gave me this technique which eventually worked:
- right at the front of the mouth, say 't-t-t-t-t-t-t' as quickly as possible
- repeat with 'd-d-d-d-d'
- change to 'tr-tr-dr-dr-tr-' so that you can feel the tongue vibrating against the front palate just behind the teeth when you exhale:
Eventually this should enable you to say 'r-r-r-r-r-r' just by exhaling ('War-r-r-rszawa' was the word that first enabled me to do this. Itfeels so unnatural initially!), but I still can't manage 'g-r-r-r-r-r' or 'k-r-r-r-r' because the initial consonant sound is so far back (in my English pronunciation, anyway) that I can't change the tongue position quickly enough.
Hello Czwartek,
I had lots of difficulty cracking this... Initially, this was because I was trying to create the trill effect in the back of the throat, in the French gutteral way. A very good teacher explained that the Polish 'r-r-r-r' actually comes from just behind the teeth, with the front of the tongue flapping loose as the air passes over it. It took me ages, but she gave me this technique which eventually worked:
- right at the front of the mouth, say 't-t-t-t-t-t-t' as quickly as possible
- repeat with 'd-d-d-d-d'
- change to 'tr-tr-dr-dr-tr-' so that you can feel the tongue vibrating against the front palate just behind the teeth when you exhale:
Eventually this should enable you to say 'r-r-r-r-r-r' just by exhaling ('War-r-r-rszawa' was the word that first enabled me to do this. Itfeels so unnatural initially!), but I still can't manage 'g-r-r-r-r-r' or 'k-r-r-r-r' because the initial consonant sound is so far back (in my English pronunciation, anyway) that I can't change the tongue position quickly enough.
Ystad
1 Jun 2009
Language / Textbook from 1938 - try these translations. [7]
I am reading an old Polish Grammar book ... It was printed in 1938 by the Polish Department at the University of Wisconsin, and it's got some wonderfully unusual sentences in its translation exercises.
Here are just a few:
1. Dwaj misjonarze zostali uprowadzeni.
2. Poważny stan będzie mi bardzo odpowiadał.
3. Niech zaprzeczy, że nie umiera na markość wątroby.
4. Posłałem po montera wodociągowego, a nie po gazowego.
5. Dziewczęta często sypią na twarz za wielu pudru.
6. On ma aż trzy pary portaczek kąpielowych.
7. Grejpfruit jest apetzczną zakaską i smacznym deserem.
8. Proszę nie zrywać za wiele piwonii z jednego krzaku.
I'll put the book's official translations of these up later today, but I thought Polish speakers might find them funnier on their own:)
Pozdrawiam!
Here are the translations, as given by the book.... Please ignore the first three sentences. They were a random 'copy + paste' which somehow got into my document.
4. Posłałem po montera wodociągowego, a nie po gazowego.
I sent for a plumber and not a man who repairs gas fixtures.
5. Dziewczęta często sypią na twarz za wielu pudru.
Girls often put to much powder on the face.
6. On ma aż trzy pary portaczek kąpielowych.
He has three pairs of swimming trunks.
7. Grejpfrut jest apetzczną zakaską i smacznym deserem.
Grapepfruit is a delicious appetizer and a savoury desert.
8. Proszę nie zrywać za wiele piwonii z jednego krzaku.
Please do not pick too many peonies from one bush.
I am reading an old Polish Grammar book ... It was printed in 1938 by the Polish Department at the University of Wisconsin, and it's got some wonderfully unusual sentences in its translation exercises.
Here are just a few:
1. Dwaj misjonarze zostali uprowadzeni.
2. Poważny stan będzie mi bardzo odpowiadał.
3. Niech zaprzeczy, że nie umiera na markość wątroby.
4. Posłałem po montera wodociągowego, a nie po gazowego.
5. Dziewczęta często sypią na twarz za wielu pudru.
6. On ma aż trzy pary portaczek kąpielowych.
7. Grejpfruit jest apetzczną zakaską i smacznym deserem.
8. Proszę nie zrywać za wiele piwonii z jednego krzaku.
I'll put the book's official translations of these up later today, but I thought Polish speakers might find them funnier on their own:)
Pozdrawiam!
Here are the translations, as given by the book.... Please ignore the first three sentences. They were a random 'copy + paste' which somehow got into my document.
4. Posłałem po montera wodociągowego, a nie po gazowego.
I sent for a plumber and not a man who repairs gas fixtures.
5. Dziewczęta często sypią na twarz za wielu pudru.
Girls often put to much powder on the face.
6. On ma aż trzy pary portaczek kąpielowych.
He has three pairs of swimming trunks.
7. Grejpfrut jest apetzczną zakaską i smacznym deserem.
Grapepfruit is a delicious appetizer and a savoury desert.
8. Proszę nie zrywać za wiele piwonii z jednego krzaku.
Please do not pick too many peonies from one bush.
Ystad
2 Jun 2009
Language / Textbook from 1938 - try these translations. [7]
A few more:)
----
1. Latem moja siostra lubi leżec na hamaku i wachlować się.
In summer my sister likes to lie on the hammock and fan herself.
2. On popchnał tego chlopca pod stół. (?!)
He pushed this boy under the table.
3. Emilia kasała sobie wczoraj zrobić wieczną ondalucję. (Very useful!)
Emilia had a permanent wave yesterday.
4. Lubię obierać pomarancze i banany. (Hmmm?)
I like to peel oranges and bananas.
5. Antka bardzo swędzi głowa.
Anton's head itches badly.
6.. Czy widziałeś kiedy, jak holownik wprowadza statek do portu?
Did you ever see how a tugboat leads a ship into the harbor? (I will need to ask this often!)
...and my favourite one:
7. Nigdy jeszcze nie byłem w kosnicy.
I was never yet in a morgue.
A few more:)
----
1. Latem moja siostra lubi leżec na hamaku i wachlować się.
In summer my sister likes to lie on the hammock and fan herself.
2. On popchnał tego chlopca pod stół. (?!)
He pushed this boy under the table.
3. Emilia kasała sobie wczoraj zrobić wieczną ondalucję. (Very useful!)
Emilia had a permanent wave yesterday.
4. Lubię obierać pomarancze i banany. (Hmmm?)
I like to peel oranges and bananas.
5. Antka bardzo swędzi głowa.
Anton's head itches badly.
6.. Czy widziałeś kiedy, jak holownik wprowadza statek do portu?
Did you ever see how a tugboat leads a ship into the harbor? (I will need to ask this often!)
...and my favourite one:
7. Nigdy jeszcze nie byłem w kosnicy.
I was never yet in a morgue.
Ystad
4 Jun 2009
Language / Textbook from 1938 - try these translations. [7]
Thanks Ziemowit:)
There's also a very literal translation in this dictionary...
dict.pl/dict?word=plumber&words=&lang=EN
"Czy pani ma hydrauliczny problem? Jestem urologiem, czy mogę pani pomóc?"
....dangerous:)
Thanks Ziemowit:)
There's also a very literal translation in this dictionary...
dict.pl/dict?word=plumber&words=&lang=EN
"Czy pani ma hydrauliczny problem? Jestem urologiem, czy mogę pani pomóc?"
....dangerous:)
Ystad
9 Jun 2009
Language / Using "to, co" as a relative pronoun [3]
Hello,
I was wondering if "to, co" as a relative pronoun (meaning "which", "what" or "that which") always declines regularly?
For example, if I wanted to say:
I have finished what I was doing.
I think this would be:
Skończyłem to, co robiłem.
If this is right, then would "to" become "tego" in the negative?
Nie skończyłem tego, co robiłem.
And if "robić" changes to "szukać", does "co" become "czego"?
"Znaleźłem to, czego szukałem." OR
"Nie znaleźłem tego, czego szukałem."
Thanks in advance!
Hello,
I was wondering if "to, co" as a relative pronoun (meaning "which", "what" or "that which") always declines regularly?
For example, if I wanted to say:
I have finished what I was doing.
I think this would be:
Skończyłem to, co robiłem.
If this is right, then would "to" become "tego" in the negative?
Nie skończyłem tego, co robiłem.
And if "robić" changes to "szukać", does "co" become "czego"?
"Znaleźłem to, czego szukałem." OR
"Nie znaleźłem tego, czego szukałem."
Thanks in advance!
Ystad
9 Jun 2009
Ystad
4 Aug 2009
Language / Polish Present Tense - Please Help Me. [8]
I still fear the present tense more than any other aspect of Polish, and I do my damnedest to avoid it in coversation, using modal verbs (muszę + infinitive; mogę + infinitive) whenever possible:) Sadly I realise that this is not a viable long-term strategy.
I asked myself exactly the same questions as you, Jakob, and as far as I know, there really is no perfect "rule" for deducing the present tense endings from the infinitive, although most (all?)-ać and -ować/-iwać/-ywać verbs are relatively friendly. The books seem to suggest that 4 "regular" conjugations exist, but there are complexities even within those patterns. Thankfully, other tenses and moods in Polish derive solely from the infinitive.
I certainly endorse SzwedwPolsce's recommendation of 301 Polish Verbs. It's been of enormous help.
I still fear the present tense more than any other aspect of Polish, and I do my damnedest to avoid it in coversation, using modal verbs (muszę + infinitive; mogę + infinitive) whenever possible:) Sadly I realise that this is not a viable long-term strategy.
I asked myself exactly the same questions as you, Jakob, and as far as I know, there really is no perfect "rule" for deducing the present tense endings from the infinitive, although most (all?)-ać and -ować/-iwać/-ywać verbs are relatively friendly. The books seem to suggest that 4 "regular" conjugations exist, but there are complexities even within those patterns. Thankfully, other tenses and moods in Polish derive solely from the infinitive.
I certainly endorse SzwedwPolsce's recommendation of 301 Polish Verbs. It's been of enormous help.
Ystad
3 Sep 2009
Language / What is this type of word called and others like it? uwydatniając [14]
Thanks Pio - I have yet to tackle this frightening creature:) I must learn it soon!
What is it called in Polish when you make a noun from a verb, for example:
Czytać ----> czytanie
Mówić -----> mówienie
I am guessing, maybe rzeczowniki czasownikowe ???
Thanks Pio - I have yet to tackle this frightening creature:) I must learn it soon!
What is it called in Polish when you make a noun from a verb, for example:
Czytać ----> czytanie
Mówić -----> mówienie
I am guessing, maybe rzeczowniki czasownikowe ???
Ystad
3 Sep 2009
Language / What is this type of word called and others like it? uwydatniając [14]
That's brilliant, mafketis! Really clear and helpful - thanks very much!
I didn't know about the "nie + czytąc form" , to mean "without reading". I'd been clumsily using "bez + czytania":
e.g. "Wypatrywałem się w gazetę, bez czytania żadnego artykułu." (???)
"I stared at the paper without reading a single article".
I never knew if this was correct Polish: it doesn't feel very "elegant"!
But with the "nie + czytąc" form, would this be right?
"Nie czytąc żadnego artykułu, wypatrywałem się w gazetę."
That's brilliant, mafketis! Really clear and helpful - thanks very much!
I didn't know about the "nie + czytąc form" , to mean "without reading". I'd been clumsily using "bez + czytania":
e.g. "Wypatrywałem się w gazetę, bez czytania żadnego artykułu." (???)
"I stared at the paper without reading a single article".
I never knew if this was correct Polish: it doesn't feel very "elegant"!
But with the "nie + czytąc" form, would this be right?
"Nie czytąc żadnego artykułu, wypatrywałem się w gazetę."
Ystad
3 Sep 2009
Language / What is this type of word called and others like it? uwydatniając [14]
Ah... yes! Stupid me - I forgot the 3rd person plural rule! Thank you again.
Ah... yes! Stupid me - I forgot the 3rd person plural rule! Thank you again.
Ystad
3 Sep 2009
Language / What is this type of word called and others like it? uwydatniając [14]
Aha! A Polish grammar challenge to lighten up my dull morning! Thank you Ziemowit!
This participle (called the Perfective Gerund in some books) is formed from the 3rd person masculine singular of the past tense [hence my confusion in the post above, when I failed to use the 3rd person plural of the present tense to form the present adverbial participle (or Imperfective Gerund)]. It has 2 variants:
1) If the form of the 3rd person masculine singular of the past tense is such that it ends in vowel + ł (e.g. przeczytał), the the ł is dropped and replaced by wszy: przeczytawszy - "having read".
Przeczytawsy jej list, dzwoniłem bespośrednio do swojej matki.
Having read her letter, I immediately phoned my mother.
2) But if the form of the 3rd person masculine singular of the past tense ends in consonant + ł, as in przyszedł, then the ł is not dropped, but w of the ending -wszy is dropped instead Hence, przyszedłszy.
Phew - my head hurts now:) Is that nearly right? I shall now spend the next 20 minutes editing this post while I confuse myself even further.
A tricky one! Some might have said: przyszedłwszy, but it would have been a mistake. Why? Maybe a homework for Ystad to answer this ...?
Aha! A Polish grammar challenge to lighten up my dull morning! Thank you Ziemowit!
This participle (called the Perfective Gerund in some books) is formed from the 3rd person masculine singular of the past tense [hence my confusion in the post above, when I failed to use the 3rd person plural of the present tense to form the present adverbial participle (or Imperfective Gerund)]. It has 2 variants:
1) If the form of the 3rd person masculine singular of the past tense is such that it ends in vowel + ł (e.g. przeczytał), the the ł is dropped and replaced by wszy: przeczytawszy - "having read".
Przeczytawsy jej list, dzwoniłem bespośrednio do swojej matki.
Having read her letter, I immediately phoned my mother.
2) But if the form of the 3rd person masculine singular of the past tense ends in consonant + ł, as in przyszedł, then the ł is not dropped, but w of the ending -wszy is dropped instead Hence, przyszedłszy.
Phew - my head hurts now:) Is that nearly right? I shall now spend the next 20 minutes editing this post while I confuse myself even further.
Ystad
4 Sep 2009
Language / What is this type of word called and others like it? uwydatniając [14]
I am honoured to be mistaken for Lyzko - he is much better at Polish than I am :) Thanks very much to both you and to Cinek for your helpful clarifications.
This sentence should have been addressed to Lyzko who is German, I believe, instead of having been addressed to you. I'm indeed sorry to have mistaken you for him (it is probably because the two of you two have similar problems in struggling with the Polish grammar)!
I am honoured to be mistaken for Lyzko - he is much better at Polish than I am :) Thanks very much to both you and to Cinek for your helpful clarifications.