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Posts by celinski  

Joined: 14 Nov 2007 / Female ♀
Last Post: 5 Jul 2012
Threads: Total: 31 / In This Archive: 29
Posts: Total: 1258 / In This Archive: 1017
From: USA, Connecticut
Speaks Polish?: no
Interests: family history

Displayed posts: 1046 / page 6 of 35
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celinski   
9 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]

you are and you have just illustrated

whatever, I see many links with Britain's planes so for this to be the reason, I guess if it makes you feel better. IMHO Britain as well as others betrayed Poland and worse played games with Polands peoples lives by pretending to be coming to help vs. just telling the truth. I don't know what was worse. Polish could have altered military options had they been privy to "real ally plans". Instead they bought what they were told, hook, line and sinker.
celinski   
9 Dec 2008
History / Walentego Badlaka's well in the market square, Krakow (Katyn) [13]

he couldn't live with lies. he died for the truth.

From todays paper,

Russian courts openly mock the Katyn massacre. Exceeding in this is Igor Tulenev, judge from the Khamovniki district court in Moscow.

He gave another spectacular show yesterday. He was reviewing Memorial's complaint against the Chief Military Prosecutor's Office, which had refused to rehabilitate Lt Stanisław Karnkowski. He heard out the military prosecutor's speech, who argued that the officer could not be rehabilitated because no documents had survived from his interrogations and subsequent trial. He heard out the Memorial representative's speech, who pointed out that the Soviet Union leaders had decided in spring 1940 that the Polish POWs would be executed without inquiry or trial. Then, on the basis of those two speeches, Mr Tulenev adjourned the case until the prosecutor's office replied officially whether it had Karnkowski's inquiry and trial files.

celinski   
8 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]

What fighter aircraft did Britain have at this time to counter the Germans?

Maybe if you used this on Germany?

Britain was on edge, and an eagerness to
oppose any attack by bombers on the part of
Fighter Command led to tragic consequences: on
6 September 1939, Spitfires were scrambled from
Hornchurch to intercept aircraft seen crossing the
Essex coast heading for London; they were led by
Adolph 'Sailor' Malan, a South African who later
became one of the RAF's finest fighter leaders in
the Battle of Britain. When he saw the aircraft,
initially he gave the order to attack, only to
countermand it when he suddenly recognized
they were Hurricanes. Too late: the speed of the
modern fighter-to-fighter battle combined with
fighter pilots' eagerness to do what they were
trained to do with their Spitfires resulted in both
Hurricanes being shot down and one of their
pilots killed. They were the first aircraft to fall to
the Spitfire's guns. Known internally in the RAF as
'The Battle of Barking Creek', it was not admitted
publicly at the time, but there were other friendlyfire
incidents, in one of which two Whitley
bombers were shot down over the sea and one
crew member was drowned.

orionbooks.co.uk/extras/IvanRendall_TheSpitfire.pdf
celinski   
8 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]

Leaflets were dropped on Germany in 1942.

This was within the first 2 1/2 weeks.

Throughout the first two and half weeks of September 1939, Germany threw its entire air force, all of panzer forces, and all of its frontline infantry and artillery against Poland. Its border with France was held by a relatively thin force of second and third string divisions. The French army, from its secure base behind the Maginot Line, had overwhelming superiority in men, tanks, aircraft, and artillery. A concerted push into western Germany would have been a disaster for Hitler. Yet the French stood aside and did nothing. The British were equally inactive, sending their bombers to drop propaganda leaflets over a few German cities. Had the Allies acted, the bloodiest and most terrible war in human history could have been averted.

ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=28
celinski   
8 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]

German Navy and Luftwaffe noticing?

I would hope if you attacked they would notice. This would coincide with a declaration of war.

Labelling th e reasons for this a betrayal is your opinion (and therefore subjective).

No reguardless of reason, it's betrayal.
celinski   
8 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]

And the USA?

At least the USA didn't say they were going to help and declare war on Nazi's and then not show, Britain and France did and then continued to lie to Poland and say they were coming.

I would like to ask BB what German's say about Polish being betrayed?
celinski   
8 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]

What was then? Please specify.

Through Germany.

It was not just Britain, look at what France was saying to Poland as they were preparing for invasion, in hindsight it's almost comical,"threats to withhold assistance".

[quote]Polish forces had been partly mobilized in secret in the summer of 1939. Full mobilization was to be declared in late August, but was halted at French insistence. Mobilization was again declared on August 30, but halted to French threats to withhold assistance, and then re-issued the following day. As a result of this, only about a third of Polish forces were equipped and in place on Sept. 1.

ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=28
celinski   
8 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]

The concept of betrayal is a subjective notion, NOT a historical fact. The reason they are no longer in Poland is NOT because of Britain.

I don't recall my saying "The reason they are no longer in Poland is NOT because of Britain". I blame this part on "betrayal" by Poland's ally's. Yes, Britain was one as was US.
celinski   
8 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]

most French and British generals thought the Poles would be able to defend themselves better than they did, and that the Germans would wear themselves out attacking the Maginot line.

Seeing what they were being attacked by, what more could the Polish have done?

They are often found to have outdated cartoonish ideas about the land of their ancestors.

Or the truth of why they are no longer in Poland.
celinski   
8 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]

And what about the US? Why didn't they enter the war earlier?

US felt that joinning would make things worse and put the country into ww2, as we know today, this is what happened anyway. Pearl Harbor was when US had no option, they now had to join.

[/quote]Facts are facts and Europe seems anti polish. [/quote]

Poland was sitting between two twisted dictators that could not stand to see Poland's independence. People having a say was a threat to both of them and the way they felt a country should be run and the people ruled. Poland having a constitution was seen as a threat and had to be changed.
celinski   
8 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]

And what about the US? Why didn't they enter the war earlier? it would have been over in 5 minutes! I love the way you hold Britain solely responsible

Not true, I have also brought into play the Soviets, that I might add are reacting rather odd the closer groups get to the full truth.

British scholar rails at police seizure of anti-Stalin archive

Yesterday Figes claimed the raid 'was clearly intended to intimidate Memorial'. The confiscated archive included unique documents detailing the 'Soviet terror from 1917 to the 1960s,' he said, adding that the office was 'an important centre for historical research' and a 'voice for tens of thousands of victims of repression in Leningrad'. He said he believed the raid was 'a serious challenge to freedom of expression' in Russia: 'It is part of a campaign to rewrite Soviet history and rehabilitate the Stalinist regime.'

guardian.co.uk/world/2008/dec/07/russian-police-seize-archive-repression
celinski   
8 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]

Am I the one who starts these threads????

Over 600 posts on this, I would have to say the subject was long overdue.

Imagine the shouts of polonophobia

You neglect to show why the post was written. Response are sometimes made to some really nasty anti Polish posts. Look back at some of the posts.
celinski   
8 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]

Its a shame you and Cellinski werent around in 1940 to tell Europe's military and political leaders where they were going wrong. Its something we'll all just have to live with I guess.

I was thinking the same thing. ;)

People of Polish descent get upset by this audacity and start name calling.

I saw a different group doing the name calling. As for getting upset, this was due to being called names.
celinski   
8 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]

this time it just happens to be the British because we didn't 'save' Poland

Why are you confusing "take out bitterness" with history?

the British and the Poles have a decent relationship so lets leave it at that

Sorry if the truth about the past is not always pleasent but this should not alter relationships today. If anything it should make them more open and honest.

Who are the ones taking out their bitterness on other members of this forum?

This is the sad part, as if attacking Polish will continue to keep the past in the closet.
celinski   
8 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]

I am mildly amused by this thread, which is a perfect example of how the westerners' amazing ignorance and naiveté

I am saddened and why you say "westerners" like they are alone in this ignorance? So many dirty secrets, cover ups and lies have been told that history of ww2 has versions to fit each Countryand/or dictator.

Britain would have been better off had they fought a war in Germany on the ground right after Germany invaded Poland.

IMO this would have altered odds dramatically. Poland had set troops in place with the "ally" support in mind.
celinski   
6 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]

Russian plans for Poland did not include a mass extermination as in Hitler's agenda.

Yes, Stalin's plan was to exterminate Polish, at the last min. he decided to send some them to Siberia to slave and die. Believe me in the East Polish were being killed or stuffed into cattle cars. If Nazi's did not attack Soviets chances are I would not be here. Remember when Germany made it to eastern Poland and all Lenin and Stalin's statues were smashed. People saw Nazi's as saving them from the Soviets.

Sikorski, these are subjects that I know too little about.

Britain will not release the recods they hold, Poland is working on this today.
celinski   
5 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]

See when exactly they started running away

You seem to think you know so much, Poland fought on every front and fought from start to end. Got a leaflet for me Harry?

The Western Betrayal

Since Britain and France had given Germany a freehand in annexing Czechoslovakia, some people of Central and Eastern Europe placed a distrust on the democratic nations of Western Europe.

ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=28]
celinski   
5 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]

Hmmmm...

pretty amazing that Polish made it to you.

[quote]Large numbers of Polish soldiers had fled into neighboring Hungary and Rumania where they were interned. While both countries were officially allied to Germany, both had strong sympathy for the Poles. This was especially true in Hungary. Polish soldiers began to disappear from internment camps as bribable or sympathetic guards and officials pretended to look the other way. Individually and in small groups, they made their way to France and Britain. German diplomats raged at their Hungarian and Rumanian counterparts, but officials in neither country had much interest in enforcing Berlin's decrees. As a result, within months a new Polish army had begun to form in the West.

ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=28
celinski   
5 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]

...The French High Command lamented that Poland had not been able to hold out until spring when a proper offensive might have been undertaken...

I see your point. Check this link out when you get a sec. "Although often outnumbered 100 to 1, these forces refused to surrender".

By the middle of September, Polish losses had been severe and the German advance had captured half of the country. The high command's fateful decision to leave Warsaw had resulted in more than a week of confusion, rescued only by the courage of Army Poznań's doomed counterattack. By the middle of September, however, Polish defenses were stiffening. Local commanders and army-level generals now directed defenses around the key bastions of Warsaw, the Seacoast, and Lwów. German losses began to rise (reaching their peak during the third week of the campaign). Small Polish units isolated by the rapid advance regrouped and struck at vulnerable rear-area forces.

ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=28

We did get leaflets,

The British were equally inactive, sending their bombers to drop propaganda leaflets over a few German cities. Had the Allies acted, the bloodiest and most terrible war in human history could have been averted.

celinski   
5 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]

on the other hand you openly demanded the sacrifice of uncounted british soldiers during their hypothetical march through Germany...

You don't mention the cost to Germany. It wasn't as if Polish were going to go watch TV. What's that saying, "Many hands make light work". We really should not forget "France" who also was coming to our aid.

I must question if this was Britain's way of assuring that Poland and Germany did not form an alliance. Now if Germany had thought of long term ....
celinski   
5 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]

Do you have some numbers for me?

I thought you didn't want me to link you to death? Well this one is good,

euronet.nl/users/wilfried/ww2/1939.htm

Oh look! Another foul lie from everybody's favourite Yank

I gave you the link the other day with all the meeting that took place, you'll have to go get them by pressing back.