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Posts by Prince  

Joined: 4 Nov 2008 / Male ♂ 		Last Post: 19 Feb 2009
Threads: Total: 15 / In This Archive: 12
Posts: Total: 590 / In This Archive: 387 		From: Poland
Speaks Polish?: yes

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Prince   
22 Jan 2009
History / Poland and Lithuania [161]

Well it is first time I hear about it but if this source is reliable :

In 1950s the remaining Polish minority was a target of several attempted campaigns of Lithuanization by Communist Party of Lithuania, which tried to ban any teaching in Polish language; those attempts where however vetoed by Moscow which saw them as too nationalistic

When Lithuania declared its independence from the Soviet Union in 1990, Gorbachev sought help from the Polish minority[29]. Polish minority, still remembering the 1950s attempts to ban Polish language,[25] was much more supportive of the Soviet Union and afraid that the new Lithuanian government might want to reintroduce the Lithuanization policies

and

this situation is further aggravated by fringe Lithuanian extremist nationalist organization Vilnija. The organization was formed in 1988, and its primary aim was the Lithuanization of ethnic Poles living in the Eastern part of Lithuania. The organization's goal is also to counter perceived growing Polish influence in Lithuania, which Vilnija sees as a threat to that nation. Vilnija has been seen by Polish government and media to often organize or support anti-Polish actions.

[hr]

In my opinion regions with strong Polish society should be protected form forced Lithuanisation atempts, discrimination in offices (offices in buildings build by Poles from Lithuania), bilingual signs on roads (as everywhere in Europe where are old miniorities) ect.

Poland doesn't want to incorporate Lithuania but Polish miniority should have rights on European level.
Prince   
22 Jan 2009
History / Poland and Lithuania [161]

Lithuania

% of Poles by municipalities

If that is true it seems that the lithuanian Poles were on the soviet side as he SU collapsed and Lithuania sought to get free...hence the tensions.

Give me some quotations :) It is not true.
Prince   
22 Jan 2009
History / Poland and Lithuania [161]

We are talking about one paritcular region ... Wilno and surounding grounds. Poles win there ... from city most were expeled but in sourounding grounds Poles are in majority ... this is how Poles win regional elections. Even this source is right 14% - it is enought to have rights like 60 000 of Sorbs in Eastern Germany :)

Being Polish. Could you explain what you mean, please?.

I mean that this people don't claim to be Lithuanian with origin but claim to be Polish from Lithuania. :) They vote on POLES in Polish party not on Lithuanians with Polish origin in normal political movements.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puńsk

Puńsk (Lithuanian: Punskas) is a village with 1,050 inhabitants in the Podlaskie Voivodeship, Poland. Over 80% of the population of Puńsk is Lithuanian. It lies in the northeastern part of Poland, only 5 km (3 miles) from the border with Lithuania.

Puńsk has belonged to Poland since 1920. Until World War II the majority of its population were Jewish, today only a cemetery remains of them. With Lithuanian Culture House, Lithuanian high school and print house, Puńsk is an important centre of Lithuanian national minority in Poland.

One year later its offshoot - Lithuanian Youth Society was created. These organizations connect all of Lithuanians and represent their interests in and out of country.

They are normal Lithuanians ... not Poles with origin. :)

The same goes to Poles in Wilno and surounding grounds. I am waiting for bilingual schools, signs on roads and come back of Polish language on Wilno University.

If not enthic cleanising of Poles after the war (Punishment for being on allies side) ... there would be hard to find Lithuanians in Wilno.

As to the city (Wilno) without surounding grounds.

pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilno

Before WWII (Nationality declared by citizens) 1931

Poles - 65,9 % (128 600 people), Jews 28 % (54 600), Russians 3,8 % (7 400), Whiterussians 0,9 % (1700), Lithuenians 0,8 % (1579), Germans 0,3 % (600), Ukrainians 0,1 % (200), iothers 0,2 % (400)

2001 (nationality declared by citizens)

Lithuenians 57,8 %, Poles 18,7 %; Russians 14 %, Whiterussians 4 %, Jews 0,5 %, others 5 %.

So Poles are in majorit in sourounding grounds and are strong miniority in the city. It is enought to have the rights like all miniorites in other european countries.
Prince   
22 Jan 2009
History / Poland and Lithuania [161]

If they win elections does that mean the people who voted for them had to be Polish?.

To be honest ... this political fraction is called "Polish Election Action in Lithuania" so we are not talking about politicans with Polish roots ... They have votes only in regions with noticable Polish miniority. Lithuanian press isn't happy that they exist. It is normal miniority and should have the same rights as miniorites in Poland. You see we have Lithuanian miniority in Poland ... this people are not people who consider themselves Polish or Poles with "origin". They claim to be Lithuanian. They live in Puńsk they have 2 languages in offices, they have their language in schools.

Poles bought houses in Wilno, Poland haven't invaded Lithuania, People who you mentioned ... lived there for centuries. I am talking about the people who live there and are Polish, this people haven't came there by force, they always have been living there or were invited (bought their houses, build univerisites ect. nobody wanted them to be Lithuanian) They have been making pro-Polish uprises (against Russia and Lithuanians from other regions who wanted to occupy them). They are not immigrants there, they should have the right for everything what other european miniorities have ... bilingula signs on roads, langage in schools ect.

Lithuanian "Poles" do have the same rights in Lithuania as Lithuanians, so where is the problem?.

The problem is that they don't.

If you like I can ask Lithuanians why? but it is just going to be a load of prejudiced historical stuff.

I like those not prejudiced because we don't want to incorporate them or something but I like Wilno I like their country side and some people.
Prince   
22 Jan 2009
History / Poland and Lithuania [161]

Yes ... but it doesn't change the facts ... I know how many of my friends have roots in Poland. Polish miniority should have the same rights as tinny Lusatian miniority in east Germany. As to history of the city ... it is enought to look on history of major buildings there.

Lets have a look on their university

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilnius_University

In 1568, the Lithuanian nobility asked the Jesuits to open an academy either in Vilnius or Kaunas. The following year Walerian Protasiewicz, the bishop of Vilnius, purchased several houses in the city centre and started the Vilnian Academy (Almae Academia et Universitas Vilnensis Societatis Jesu)

The first rector of the Academy was Piotr Skarga. He invited many scientists from various parts of Europe

(en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piotr_Skarga

He was called the "Polish Bossuet" due to his oratorical abilities.

He was born and educated at Grójec later at Kraków

)

The Academy's growth continued until the 17th century. The following era, known as The Deluge, led to a dramatic drop in both the number of students that matriculated, and in the quality of its programs. In the middle of the 18th century, educational authorities tried to restore the Academy. This led to the foundation of the first observatory in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, (the fourth such professional facility in Europe), in 1753, by Tomasz Żebrowski. The Commission of National Education (Komisja Edukacji Narodowej), the world's first ministry of education

Educated Poles were expelled from Lithuania after WWII [2]. As the result many of former students and professors of Stefan Batory joined various universities in Poland. In order not to lose contact with each other, the professors decided to transfer whole faculties.

... Poles who stayed should have the same right as all other minirites in other european countries.
Prince   
21 Jan 2009
History / Poland and Lithuania [161]

Poles are the largest minority, concentrated in southeast Lithuania (the Vilnius region)

Akcja Wyborcza Polaków na Litwie (AWPL) według wstępnych wyników odniosła zdecydowane zwycięstwo w rejonach wileńskim i solecznickim w niedzielnych wyborach do rad samorządowych. Polacy w tych okręgach sprawują nieprzerwanie władzę 12 lat.

Well ... again since 12 years ... Polish miniority wins elections in this region. So more than 50% of people ... Well it is big enought miniority to have rights like other tinny miniorities in other European countries. The most interesting fact is that Poles are hosts for Lithuanians from different parts of regon who moved to this "empty" houses after the war...
Prince   
21 Jan 2009
History / Poland and Lithuania [161]

Of course they have the right to vote and be aragont and I would say unPolish but I am trying to get you to understand that Lithuanians do not like Poles (not my fault), they do not see you as friends as much as you think, in fact I have personally seen hatred towards Polish people there.

The most interesting fact is that Wilno was in 90 % Polish before the war. Now there is more or less 50% of Poles in this region ... rest was expeled after the war, actualy most of buildings there has been build by people who were expeled or vote "Polish". I am just thining about the reason ... why Poles were punished for being on allies side.

They can't make ethic cleaning there. Miniorities in Europe have the right to their language in offices ,in schools, for their original names, for biligual sings on roads. Poles are not immigrants there.

Polish people are hated in Lithuania.

In my opinion 50% of people in Wilno region love Poland. :) Just joking ...
Prince   
21 Jan 2009
History / Poland and Lithuania [161]

But if Russians or Germans had such power in Warsaw, I get the feeling you would not be so sympathetic?.

Poles live there for centuries ... it is their home.

But I do think you illustrate the common lack of consideration for the Lithuanians that is common by a lot of Poles (From Poland).

Poles who live there have the right ot vote on who ever they want and consider themselves Poles.

Polish troops, led by Gen Zeligowski, “disobey” orders from Warsaw’s

Polish troops you are talking about were from Lithuania (so what kind of occupation was that?). This general was form Grand Dutchy of Lithuania.

Have you ever been to Lithuania Prince?.

I have been.
Prince   
21 Jan 2009
Travel / Horse Riding in Poland [24]

Poland has one of the best bloodstocks in the world.

Janów Podlaski is the best example.



janow.arabians.pl/en/

This place is famous from great horses and costumers. Oscar Wild, Elizabeth Taylor, Mick Jagger, Margaret Thatcher. In 20's Edward VIII and George VI visted Janów to see/buy this beautiful horses.



The great Polish stallion (from Janów Podlaski) *Piaff and handler Greg Gallun, Region 2 Arabian Halter Stallions Championship. Piaff was brought to America in fall of 2005 and is campaigning towards the US National Championship.


Prince   
20 Jan 2009
History / Lusatians our neighbours. [10]

, or are there really such people in Europe....????

Voices of Europe 2008 :)



One week singing in a choir existing of a bunch of young people from linguistic, cultural and national minorities from Europe...this is the result! yeni.org for more information.
Thanks to Pawk (Sorbs from Germany) for the organisation and Peter Shannon, our lovely conductor.

Sorben demonstrieren in Berlin
Prince   
20 Jan 2009
History / Ancient Polish History thread [180]

Battle of Cedynia - First documented Polish battle in history

The Battle at Cedynia (also Cidini, Cydyna, Ceden, Cedin, Zehden) occurred on 24 June 972 during the rule of Duke Mieszko I, the first Christian ruler of the Polans (later Poland). There was a war raging over the western border of the young country, because Mieszko wanted to capture the lightly defended and economically important estuary of the Oder River, in order to secure influence in Pommerania. This led to a conflict with Margrave Hodo of the Nordmark (Northern March) and the Saxon March, who was also ruler of the neighbouring marchy of Lusatia (an antecedent of Brandenburg) and responsible for gathering tribute of the tribes which were Mieszko's point of interest. In the course of division of the East March, the power in the area was exercised by unchecked warlords. Margrave Hodo wanted to extend his territory and influence, and finally gathered his forces. He received support from another man, Count Sigfried and decided to attack. He was sure of victory, and his raid was a private conflict which was against the agreements made by the German emperor, who needed to secure his power in Italy. However, against his expectations, the battle was won by Mieszko.

Battle of Plowce 1331

2400 - 2500 Germans Killed

1800 - 1700 Poles Killed

Poles vs Mongols

Poland vs Ukraine

September 27, 1605, the Polish-Lithuanian and Swedish forces met near the small town of Kircholm (now Salaspils in Latvia, some 18 km. South East of Riga). The forces of Charles IX of Sweden were numerically superior and were composed of 11,000 infantry (8500 pikeman, 2500 musketeer), 2,500 cavalry and 11 cannons. The Swedish army included a few thousand German and Dutch mercenaries and even a few hundred Scots. Jan Karol Chodkiewicz was composed of roughly 1,300 infantry (1040 pikeman and 260 musketeer), 2,600 cavalry and only 5 cannons.The fighting lasted barely 20 to 30 minutes, yet the Swedish defeat was utter and complete. The army of Charles IX had lost at least half, perhaps as much as two-thirds, its original strength. The Polish-Lithuanian losses numbered only about 100 dead and 200 wounded

Poland-Lithuania vs Sweden (new clip on youtube)

Polich Charge Somossiera.

It wasn't Polish war but there was interesting episode.

125 Polish soldiers charged Spaniards with impressing result.

250 dead or wounded,
3,000 captured

In 2008 Spanish history hotheads invited Polish hotheads to repeat the battle. Spanish and Polish had great fun.

Somosierra 1808-2008



CARGA DE SOMOSIERRA (and old movie)


Prince   
20 Jan 2009
History / Poland and Lithuania [161]

These guys are just in it for the money, they are not really Polish

They have Polish names, they vote in elections on party called "Polish elction action" and they win in ground around Capital. so many Poles have been expeled after the war from the capital it is good that selection wasn't so hard in souronding grounds ...

BTW. Why Poles were expeled from there. Wasn't Poland on winers side ?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucjan_Żeligowski

Polish and Russians are a big part of this country but the Lithuanians want to have their own country but they have learned to co-exist with others.

We don't want to take over Lithuania but Poles should have the right to vote on whoever they want, and have names they want, they can't force people to be Lithuanians if they don't want to be Lithuanians.

Lithuanians look to Scandinavia and Germany for systems and fashion,

Yes yes ... they entered personal union with Poland few years before battle of Grunwald ... they didn't want to be exterminated like "old" Prussians. BTW they had wooden shileds durring battle of Grunwald ... others had more advanced weapons and it was alwayas like that.
Prince   
19 Jan 2009
History / Prussian History [29]

You should really loosen up Luki....it's all far gone history!


Prince   
19 Jan 2009
History / Prussian History [29]

Na ja....quite the reverse!As the Bambers became polonized the Masuren were mostly germanized....Poles and Germans "...ized" each other quite heavily during the millennia! :)We should really build a new nation...Polany...or Germand...or ....or...hmmm:):):)

Polonization was much different than Germanisation :) but I see you try to learn how to Polonize :) ... you have still a lot to learn :))) I prefere Poland and Germany being honest neighbours and EU members. :)
Prince   
19 Jan 2009
History / Prussian History [29]

Who very probably shortly before were still fighting for the Order as all nobles were.Or how do you think they became knights and nobles if not through fighting for the Order and in return awarded by it?

Propably yes, propably not. The fact is that Prussian Confederation lead to

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_Homage

The Prussian Homage or Tribute (German: Preußische Huldigung; Polish: hołd pruski) was the formal investment of Albert of Prussia as duke of the Polish fief of Ducal Prussia.

Mazurs history is similar to Bambers history

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bambrzy

The Polonisation of this group was a voluntary act and happened very quickly. The settlers refused to build their own churches, prayed with Poles, and their children learned the Polish language. There were also many mixed marriages with Poles living there. At the end of the 19th century, during the Kulturkampf period, all Catholics in villages inhabited by Bambrzy chose Polish nationality during Prussian and German censuses.

Prince   
19 Jan 2009
History / Prussian History [29]

As to the old Prussians - they had different choices durring history

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lizard_Union_(medieval)

The Lizard Union or Lizard League (German: Eidechsenbund; Polish: Związek Jaszczurczy) was an organization of Prussian nobles and knights established in Culmerland (Chełmno Land) in 1397. Its declared goal was to combat lawlessness, although it discreetly sought the transfer of Culmerland from the Teutonic Knights to Poland.

The union was founded by Nicholas von Renys, John of Pulkow, Frederick of Kitnow, and Nicholas of Kitnow. It was named after its emblem, a lizard (eyne eydechse), and expanded its influence to other provinces. During the Battle of Grunwald in 1410, Nicholas von Renys carried the banner of the Culmerland troops for the Teutonic Order. He lowered the banner prematurely, which was considered a signal for retreat that contributed to the defeat of the Knights.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_Confederation

The Prussian Confederation (German: Preußischer Bund or Bund vor Gewalt;[2] Polish: Związek Pruski) was an organization formed in 1440 by a group of 53 gentry and clergy and 19 cities in Prussia to oppose the monastic state of the Teutonic Knights.

Prince   
19 Jan 2009
History / Prussian History [29]

Yes it is true Mazurians were protestants who lived in Prussia originaly were from Mazovia ( Warsaw region) later their language became influenced by German.
Prince   
18 Jan 2009
History / Poland and Lithuania [161]

True but many stayed.

Electoral Action of Poles in Lithuania ( EAPL ) according to preliminary results enjoyed a decisive victory in the regions of Vilnius and Salcininkai in Sunday's elections to local government councils . Poles in these districts the authority exercised continuously for 12 years.

In the region of Vilnius AWPL gained 19 seats in the 27 -member council. Previously had 16 seats. In the area of ​​Salcininkai gained 20 seats to 25 , three more . In the Trakai AWPL probably lost one seat and will have five of them . In the area of ​​Švenèionys won three seats .

Well ... "Polish Elections Action" wins all elections in grounds surounding Lithuanian capital Wilno ... from the city most Poles were expeled but in sourounding grounds Poles are in majority and govern this part of Lithuania ...

From th other hand they know that Poland is not going to invaid them or colonise them and it is in both nations interest to cooperate... there is noticable progress in our contacts ... :)

Finaly they prefere us than Russians and they need allies ... and Poland wants Polish miniority to be respected and our common heritage saved.
Prince   
18 Jan 2009
History / Poland and Lithuania [161]

Apparently everyone speaks polish but nobody likes to admit it.

false

sense since polish/russian were the only official languages in lithuania during the commie era

false ... most Poles were expeled from the East after WWII .

I've also noticed that poles see lithuanians as being polish "z dziadka na pra dziadka"

false
Prince   
18 Jan 2009
History / Poland and Lithuania [161]

polskieradio/zagranica/news/artykul100086_Polish_Lituanian_rel ations_described_as_special.html

Prime Minister Donald Tusk has described Polish -Lithuanian relations as special within the European Union. Speaking after talks in Warsaw with Lithuanian Prime Minister Andrius Kubilius, Tusk said that friendship between the two countries is very durable. The two heads of state discussed problems of the Polish ethnic minority in Lithuania and bilateral cooperation in the energy sector. Kubilius said that the issue of spelling Polish names is nearing a positive conclusion. Lithuania has so far demanded that Polish names be spelled in the Lithuanian manner.

Prince   
15 Jan 2009
Life / Illegal drugs enjoyed by many of the young male Poles. Availability? [24]

It shouldn't be punished so restrictly but it should remain illegal.

I think wódka is the big thing, someone once told me that wódka is the crack of Poland.

According to the UN WHO study Poland ranks 26th in consumption of alcohol.

Rank Liters/Year Country
1 15.6 Luxembourg
2 13.7 Ireland
3 13.6 Hungary
4 13.2 Moldova, Rep
5 13.0 Czech Rep
6 12.3 Croatia
7 12.0 Germany
8 11.8 United Kingdom
9 11.7 Denmark
10 11.7 Spain
11 11.5 Portugal
12 11.4 France
13 11.1 Austria
14 10.8 Switzerland
15 10.6 Belgium
16 10.4 Slovakia
17 10.3 Russian Federation
18 9.9 Lithuania
19 9.7 Netherlands
20 9.7 Romania
21 9.6 Latvia
22 9.3 Finland
23 9.0 Bosnia and Herzegovina
24 9.0 Greece
25 8.6 Serbia and Montenegro
26 8.1 Poland
27 8.0 Italy
28 7.8 Estonia
29 7.0 Iceland
30 6.7 Slovenia
31 6.1 Ukraine
32 6.0 Malta
33 6.0 Sweden
34 5.9 Bulgaria
35 5.7 Macedonia, FYR
36 5.5 Belarus
37 5.5 Norway
38 4.4 Faeroe Islands
39 2.0 Albania
Prince   
15 Jan 2009
News / another proof that Poland is a confessional state [18]

2. I'm afraid, every student will be forced to go or to catholicism lessons teached by catholic priests, or for 'secular ethic' lessons, teached mostly by catholic priests... of course they will be secular...*

Ok .. we will see. :)
Prince   
15 Jan 2009
News / another proof that Poland is a confessional state [18]

i'm worry about the teachers. i worry because i know, that in most cases- it will be a catholic priests 'learning' them how to pray

Firstly ethic courses can't be taught by religion teachers it is forbiden ... it is Polish law. Don't worry about shortage of the teachers. Nobody can't be forced to go on religion classes.