Life / Why is Polka music played in Poland so much different than in the USA? [36]

Weird Al Jankovitc: Polka Your Eyes Out.



Halleluyah!

>^..^<

M-G (likes Weird Al at times)

News / THE HOMINTERN IN POLAND? [80]


Heck no, it's just a question and most of those religious nutters never want to answer it. Because answering it would imply admitting that the Church is not at all that peacefull as it always claims to be.


I take that as a "yes". It must've cost you quite some blood sweat and tears to come to this answer, right? Religion is the main reason (exceptions do the rule) for a lot of hatred and unnecessary killing in the world.


I do like peanuts, especially in peanut sauce :) But the good thing about being liberal is that you generally don't get stuck up in obsolete patterns of thinking ;) Believe me, sweetie, it's not satanic to be liberal :)

>^..^<

M-G (is a liberal feline)

News / THE HOMINTERN IN POLAND? [80]


How about uncle Adolf, Torquemada, Pius XII?


I don't have a favourite atheist, they're all so cute, I can't choose. You still haven't answered the question, though :)

>^..^<

M-G (wants a clear "yes" or "no")

News / THE HOMINTERN IN POLAND? [80]

Well, I don't know any atheism that presents a movement - to me atheism is simply a bunch of ppl who don't believe. Besides, religion preaches love and care - bit funny if they go to war then, eh? But you didn't answer the question :)

>^..^<

M-G (obnoxious by default tonight)

Life / Polish Fairytales [25]

Bartolome

Thanks again! Ah, so it's Bolek en Lolek? We called them always the other way around...Don't know why that was, though. Maybe it just was easier to pronounce that way? Don't know. By the way: "en" is Dutch for "i", so on Dutch TV it was always presented as Lolek "en" Bolek, instead of its original name...Hope you will forgive us for such barbarism :) In German TV it was Lolek und Bolek.

>^..^<

M-G (will add L&B to his FB page)

News / THE HOMINTERN IN POLAND? [80]


Then you will want to marry me, as I am the anti-Christ :D :D :D
Simple question for you: do you or do you not agree to the fact that "religion", or at least ppl who claim to represent this, is responsible for many wars, pain and suffering towards and against ppl who chose not to believe in this particular religion throughout history or not?

>^..^<

M-G (is going to dress up as anti-Christ for Hallowe'en tonight)

Life / Polish Fairytales [25]

Bartolome

Just wondering: Lolek en Bolek are not being shown on TV anymore, except for reruns, am I right? Would there by any way of downloading a few of them episodes? Would love to see them again :)

Edit: just had a look at the link, unfortunately my Japanes isn't what it used to be, so I have no clue what they are talking about, but the bear does very vaguely ring a bell...But nothing more than that, sorry.

>^..^<

M-G (was a huge Lolek en Bolek fan at the time)

Life / Polish Fairytales [25]

Bartolome

What I for sure remember of Polish culture when I was a child, were of course Lolek en Bolek. Well, they're not fairy tales, but I still enjoyed watching them, although they were more often on German television than on Dutch television. Actually, it's kinda amazing what German television did for spreading Central- and Eastern Culture to the West (at least when you're from the East of Holland, as I am, near the German border)! I've come to known, for example: Lolek en Bolek, Phantomas, and there were a crapload of (Czech?) Children's movies as well...And I saw most of them...I knew they were not German, but it kinda struck me that it all looked so modern in those films, a bit different than the image we had from the East, if you catch my drift...

>^..^<

M-G (sometimes wished he could go back in time - just to see those films on Sunday afternoons)

Life / Polish Fairytales [25]

Bartolome

Thanks! I think it's always nice to hear about folklore like this.

>^..^<

M-G (the bonfire near my house has died at the hands of some firemen - good!)

Life / Polish Fairytales [25]

beckski

You're welcome :) Mysterious is always good ;) Seanus, you're Scottish, that means that there is a big chance that you have red hair. Are you a Vampire too?

:))

>^..^<

M-G (is not afraid of Vampires)

News / JEW YOUTH SHOULD CLEAN UP THEIR ACT IN POLAND [420]


Oh I can, and I never denied that there were very brave Poles. Read my posts on the thread about the brave Polish soldiers in the battle of Arnhem. And Israelis do so as well, given the fact that there are many Poles in the "forest of the righteous" in Israël. I've tried to explain why there is some mistrust against Poles in some circles of Jews. Not all Jews hate Poles, I personally think that this stigma is due to the fact that there were Jews murdered (incidentally) by Poles directly after the war. Again, the Kielce pogrom on the 4th of July 1946, was not only clumsy in timing, but also it change the perception of the Poles in the West. The West couldn't understand how they could kill Jews again, so shortly after the Holocaust, no matter what the circumstances were. Later on they learned that it was mostly Soviet instigated and the focus shifted towards Russia.

Again, I am sure there were Polish heroes, but there were also Polish traitors, just like in any other country. I just got a bit fed up with the Polish mentality of whinging and whining about the past. And blame the entire world. And I also gave an explanation as to why the killing of the Jews received more attention than the killing of the Poles (which did get quite some attention in the West, but somehow some Poles fail to see that): the killing of Jews was an international thing as Jews from all over Europe were killed; more countries were affected by it. The killing of Poles was a more localized thing. You are Scotch, what, you believe would get more attention in Scotland: if there were 100.000 Scottish Jews were deported and killed or that there were 100.000 Poles killed, some 2500 km away?

Jacques Presser was an eminent Dutch (Jewish) professor and this book is his magnum opus. It's really a good read and you will be surprised what those nice and friendly and open Dutch ppl were capable of in WW2. But the Dutch have always admitted that there were a lot of bad apples in the basket and have reacted accordingly. I think every nation has to take responsibility for its bad apples as no nation consists of entirely good and righteous ppl, PL included. And sometimes I get the impression that many here think that it is. And then there is me, the obnoxious Dutchman :)))

ZIMMY

Zimmy, I would recommend to you Presser's book as well. Even though it's about Dutch society during WW2, it describes perfectly what I meant. Even though it's written by a Jewish professor of the University I was on, it's completely unbiased and gives the facts as they were.

>^..^<

M- (happy Hallowe'en Seanus and the rest!)

Life / Polish Fairytales [25]

Polonius3

Is there an English translation available? I don't dare to put it through Google Translation as the results from that site are sometimes a bit scary. I don't mind if it's in verses, not at all.

beckski

Redheaded witches...Funny you mentioned that. In Serbia Redheads (I take it because of the pale skin that usually comes with red hair) were considered to be Vampires and in Holland Redheads were regarded as "touched by the devil" (at least in my part of the country). I like your new avatar, by the way :) Happy Hallowe'en to you too :))

>^..^<

M-G (it's generally not a good idea to ignore vampires when in a room with one as they most definitively won't ignore you)

News / JEW YOUTH SHOULD CLEAN UP THEIR ACT IN POLAND [420]

Seanus

That's the part that a former friend of his comes to their house to have him and his brother join the Ghetto Police? That same friend however saves his life from the deportation train by pulling him out of the row.

Like said many times, my aim is not and has never been to bring the Polish ppl down in this respect. I know that there were certain elements within the Jewish population that for some reason saw their chance. Men who had no power before and were frustrated about that. I believe there is no solidarity between ppl as such: when the sh*t really hits the fan, it's always every man for himself. These ppl perhaps thought that they could get away from the ordeal the Jews would undergo in the deathcamps and I still like to compare this behaviour with the pigs-to-the-slaughter behaviour I mentioned some time ago: when pigs are being led from the truck to the area where they will be killed, you see the strange behaviour that they start biting and kicking each other in order to get back into the truck. Pushing the others to go first. But yet everybody will have to go into that killing room and all will be killed. The Jewish police is a good example of that imo. Eventually those policemen would be killed too, however the Nazis implied that this may not be the case. Also, war and extreme situations bring out the worst in ppl, never the best. Many Jews were mistreated, ripped off and the like, by their fellow Jews. This was the opportunity to take some revenge. It's a strange phenomenae that almost always happens in extreme sits. Bottomline, I think, is the will to survive at all cost. Show them that you are a good helper, then maybe they won't kill me.

Edit: behold some exceptions, noble heroism is a myth. There are instances of ppl betraying their own family in order to survive. Not very well documented, but yet they are there. Jews are ppl like everybody else. Examples are to be found in EVERY ppl. Jews are no different. Seanus, I would suggest Jacques Presser's "Ondergang" (in English translated as "Ashes In the Wind" as it gives you the most comprehensive impression on the Dutch attitude towards the Jews and will provide some insight in what the true Dutch spirit was during WW2. I really would recommend that.

>^..^<

M-G (beer)

Life / Polish Fairytales [25]

Nov 2, 09, 05:02 - Thread attached on merging:
Polish Fairy Tales

...When I was a kid I got a book from my mom with fairy tales from all over the world. I remember there was a Polish one too, alas, can't remember the name (yep, I'm that old already). So, what Polish fairy tales are there? I don't mean the translated Grimm or Andersen ones, but the typical Polish ones.

>^..^<

M-G (curious)

News / JEW YOUTH SHOULD CLEAN UP THEIR ACT IN POLAND [420]

Torq

Did you not read the part where I write "not saying that this is true"? That states that it's one of the many views on the topics and none of them is a 100% true and the truth usually lies in the middle.


The Nürnburger Gesetze (Nueremburgh Laws) of 1935 made it impossible for Jews to enter the army, let alone the "elite" ranks of the SS. Only ppl with one Jewish grandparent were allowed in the Wehrmacht, but only in lower ranks. Therefore it's safe to say that there were no Jews in the SS.


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jedwabne_pogrom

I'm too lazy to list all the links in here, instead read this section of Wiki, it contains quite a few links:

What everybody seems to bypass is my repeated remark that Polish anti-semitism always rode high when Poland was in some form occupied by Russia or the SU. And compared to the Russians and Ukrainians Poles are like little lambs.


Did you miss the part where I actually blame Hitler and Stalin? They were the main responsible. If you missed it, I would suggest you read my posts in this thread again. Yes, the Jews should stop blaming others, but so should the Poles, Poles and Jews are not that different from each other in that respect. I find it a sad given fact that Jews do so. My grandmother, who was Jewish who lost her entire family and all of her in-laws, used to say: learn from the past, enjoy today and look forward to a bright future. And she also said: it's better to never forget and to forgive than to never forgive and forget. I think Jews as well as Poles could learn a lesson from those wise words.


Ah from under every stone they come crawling now :) I never said that, Joe, and if you read well, you'd know that.

>^..^<

M-G (needs some serious beer now that he has the house for himself, and given it's Hallowe'en)

News / JEW YOUTH SHOULD CLEAN UP THEIR ACT IN POLAND [420]


Pro-life is generally used for the anti-abortion lobby or the ppl who are not in favour of abortion. Euthanasia is a different something and is usually not caught under the "pro-life" idea. And furthermore: if you willfully deny a woman to decide over her own body (let's not forget that it takes place in the woman's body, not in Lesser's nor yours nor mine) or willfully disrespect a person so much that you even deny him the right to die in dignity (what a great thanks that is to all that person has done for you - suppose it's your grandfather), then you are a freak to me, yes. And calling up dramatic pictures does not help the case of the pro-life movement. I see them nearly every Saturday posting in front of the GPO here in Dublin: a mass of aborted mashed up thingies that look like pasta sauce. It's disgusting. But it's HER body and HER decision. Not anybody else's. And as far as euthanasia is concerned, I can speak of this as I have experience first hand. My grandmother had a severe braintumer, which left her in a vegetative state. The family then decided to do the most merciful thing out of respect for her: they gave permission to stop the machines that kept her alive. The father of a Hungarian friend of mine was terminally ill and suffered excruciating pains, yet the family, good Catholics, didnt want to give him a dignified death by letting him sleep never to wake up again. I was there when the end came: he was screaming and in the end he couldn't scream anymore, because at the moment he died a huge fountain of blood came spouting out of his mouth. This man had raised them all their lives and worked very hard for them and yet as a thank you they didn't had the respect to let him die gracefully, the way he should've been remembered. I didn't speak to them for years after that. Just to give you a little taste of what "pro-life" and "anti-euthanasia" means. Yes, they are freaks to me, yes.

And Sokrates: if your mom makes you Jewish, then I am indeed Jewish, however, since I am from Holland, this has never been an issue and I am first and foremost Dutch and not even religious. Yet many, many of my ancestors were killed during the Holocaust. So, like you, I have a bit of trouble stating that Poles had it so much worse and that Jews were criminals.


This made me chuckle, coming from somebody who based his theories upon religion...


I didn't state that they were all complicit, but there were cases definitively that collaboration with the Nazis happened and it's probably more than Sokrates likes to admit. There is ample proof of incidents and Jedwabna is just one of the incidents that happened. Quite a few Poles were happy to see the Nazis take care of the Jews. Some out of ideology, some out of stupid hatred, some out of greed. Just like in any other country. There were Poles that helped the Jews and there were Jews in the resistance as well. But there must be something as the majority of the Holocaust took place in PL. That gives way to thoughts that maybe they did it there because the population silently agreed? Not saying that this is true, but you must admit that this simple fact gives reason to suspect that.

>^..^<

M-G (just enjoyed some very tasty spaghetti he made as the misses is not at home)

News / JEW YOUTH SHOULD CLEAN UP THEIR ACT IN POLAND [420]


If I failed to address your points, you did so with mine, merely dismissing them as lies. Because that is basically what you did. If I come up with something that proposes a different view, you did so. Remember Cała and Gross? Why do you bypass my statement that anti-semitism is not a Polish invention, but remarkable mainly ocurred when PL was in some form occupied by Russia or the SU?


Lucky guess :) I am sure there were deals made between Poles and Jews and I am also sure that certain Jews didn't kept their part of the bargain, as probably there were some Poles too that didn't kept their part of bargains. It's human nature. My problem with it is that an entire ppl being held accountable for what a few individuals did.

lesser

Aren't you the pro-life and anti-euthanasia freak? Hm. Anyhow, I have yet to see the first posting from your hand where you actually address differing points of view. So it seems a bit strange that you feel the need to make remarks that I would only preach for my own congregation. In fact, you accuse me of what you nearly always do :)

>^..^<

M-G (halleluyah)

News / JEW YOUTH SHOULD CLEAN UP THEIR ACT IN POLAND [420]


I think you have a little issue there. Where exactly do I state that it was you who posted quotes for jewwatch? I have seen it used as source many times before on this forum, so does that automatically mean that I say that YOU are posting them? Are you the only other poster here? Stop whining about my so-called "lying" and stop calling every attempt to state that the overwhelming majority of Jews were good ppl and did nothing harmful to Poles.


And you say that I am lying? Think again.


Don't make me laugh, you've proven nothing as such - just opinions. Eyewitnesses, they provide proof or are you saying that those are lying too?


Again, who is the one lying here? But this is where your point of view boils down to. Poles did nothing wrong and Jews got everything they deserved. If I am supposed to be an anti-Polish racist or something, you are an even worse one as you are on top of that bagatallising what Poles did. And that is worse. Look at Céline.

>^..^<

M-G (is enjoying some premature fireworks for Halloween)

News / JEW YOUTH SHOULD CLEAN UP THEIR ACT IN POLAND [420]

Seanus

It all depended to which extend they were allowed to participate. Indeed, they were viewed with mistrust, hence their chances of being able to contribute were limited. That wasn't everywhere the case though. There were Jewish professors, doctors, merchants, et cetera. Some of them were poor, some of them were not.

Ok, I do agree that the invention of the Atombomb is not something to be proud of or something that will be valued very highly in society :) But Oppenheimer went and became a Buddhist after he saw the consequences of his invention.

I have to get some food for tonight and tomorrow now, Seanus, but I will have a look at the abortion thread later on and should it be necessary, I will strike there with my pro-Jewish verbal violence :D

>^..^<

M-G (hates having to shop in two parts => box for the vacuum cleaner was too big to carry around in the supermarket when you only have two hands)

News / JEW YOUTH SHOULD CLEAN UP THEIR ACT IN POLAND [420]


Just read back on the thread. Poles did nothing wrong, were goodness in person and yet got abused, misused and vandalized by Jews. Nobody here denied that Poles were victims too, yet it seems more of a "we were worse off than you" kinda discussion. But if you call some madhatter's site called "jewwatch" a credible source, then, yes, this invites to be ridiculed. From the intonation the website starts off with, after a few sentences it's clear where it's gonna go and what the conclusion will be. I prefer the link to the book Jola gave as it's much more balanced and points out (correctly) that there were excesses on both sides, but that the majority of both ppls were good-intentioned and were not after each other until Hitler and Stalin came on the stage.


I think the number of Jewish inventions will successfully stand through a comparison with Polish inventions :) For example: who invented the jeans you're wearing? Correct, Levi Strauss, and guess what, he was a....Jew :)

Poles, like the Jews, suffer to a great extent of the so-called "victim-complex". Everybody is against them, it's always somebody else's fault, et cetera. I think it's a national trait which unfortunately will not be cured any time soon.


They were artists too, Seanus. Szpilmann, for example? Jews have always contributed to the societies they were a part of. They fought in the armies as good patriots, they helped finding cures for ailments and so on. Only difference was that they viewed the Saturday as their holy day, instead of Sunday, like the Christians or Friday, as the Muslims do. And it's not that they came flocking in in the decades immediately before WW2, but many of them came in the 14th century by invitation of Kasimier the Great of Poland. They were proscecuted in Germany as they were thought to have brought the bubonic plague upon the Christians (ha bloody ha). Kasimier knew what a great contribution they would mean to Polish society as there seemed to be a lack of initiative in PL at the time, so he invited them over. But I am sure in the eyes of some participants in this thread, this will be a historical lie.

<sarcastic mode>
Funny how facts which portray Jews as good ppl are considered lies and facts which portray them as bad or Poles as more than noble towards them are considered the truth, without exception, by some of the participants in this thread.

</sarcastic mode>

Edit: ps, I never doubted that anti-semitism wasn't a Polish invention. It's a Russian invention mainly. Proof of this may lie in the fact that atrocities towards Jews mainly happened when PL was for some reason part of Russia.

Edit2: 3 Million Poles got slaughtered durin WW2; 6 million Jews. Are absolute figures a definitive measurement of the agony a ppl go through?

>^..^<

M-G (is happy with his new and cheap vacuum cleaner)

News / JEW YOUTH SHOULD CLEAN UP THEIR ACT IN POLAND [420]


Nothing. But I never stated it was any different. The US in the 30's (or more precisely, the part of the 30's when Hitler was in power) had a record of unfilled immigration spots of 400.000 in total. 400.000 places that easily could have been taken by Jewish refugees, but they were refused. It's pssbl to think of each unfilled place as a sentence of death for a European Jew.


It was just meant as a point to consider as sometimes Poles see themselves indeed as holier than holy, while in fact they're just humans and not very different from the rest in Europe and the world.


What's so bad about that? I am sure there are many non-Jewish ppl in PL who benefitted from that. A grim comparison: the population in the death camps was also dominated by Jews.

>^..^<

M-G (needs to get a new vacuum cleaner - saw one for only 39 Euros @ Argos and thinks it's a deal)

News / JEW YOUTH SHOULD CLEAN UP THEIR ACT IN POLAND [420]


Just one remark to that: the Jedwabna pogrom was a Polish crime, that's also a historical fact. There were excessess on both sides and crimes committed against each other. Poles and Jews both were victims and both perpetrated hideous crimes. Jola is right when he says that Jews and Poles should stop blaming each other and instead (like you suggested) go sit at the table, come clear with each other and then focus on the ppl who were really responsible for this: Hitler and Stalin.

>^..^<

M-G (still lunch time)

News / JEW YOUTH SHOULD CLEAN UP THEIR ACT IN POLAND [420]

Hm, I came across "My Brothers Keeper? - Recent Polish debates on the Holocaust", Anthony Polonsky et al (edt). Just have a look at what the back cover states, according to Amazon:


I'm thinking of buying that one too.

>^..^<

M-G (lunch time)

News / JEW YOUTH SHOULD CLEAN UP THEIR ACT IN POLAND [420]

1jola

I have read a part of the passage you have given me (I am for some reason pretty busy today and yesterday, but I already stated that I valued it. I will check if it's available in (online) bookstores as I prefer to read from paper than from the screen. I may be old fashioned for somebody who works for MS, but heck :) When I was at University I only studied from paper, if you catch my drift. But, it's payday for me today, so I am going to order some new books anyway. Rising 1944 by Norman Davies is one of them, Martin Gilbert's masterpiece on WW1 (title: First World War) and Modris Ecksteins' Rites of Spring: the Great War and the birth of Modern Age are on the list for sure. I've had them, but they are getting a bit worn out, so time to replace them. Also, I still want to own a copy of Claude Lanzmann's Shoah (highly recommended, I think this is about the best documentary about the Holocaust if there ever has been one). So, it will be busy on the book-buying front for me :)

>^..^<

M-G (busy busy busy - and that for a Friday)

News / JEW YOUTH SHOULD CLEAN UP THEIR ACT IN POLAND [420]

Gunslinger44

I never denied there were Jewish Kapos. Just like there were Polish Kapos, Ukrainian, etc. You must not forget that these Kapos were mainly criminals, opportunists or simply luckseekers who thought by being a Kapo, they could save their skin. Also, you must not forget that Kapos often were killed just as well if there were too many prisoners. I did have a glimpse at jewwatch. Just because I think it's a questionable source, doesn't mean that i don't read it. But what amazes me is that guys like you never seem to read other sources, sources that say something different. It's like seeking your own truth and being closed to other truths. I read a part of the book 1jola suggested and I must say it's pretty objective indeed. Maybe you should read it too and you will see that the truth is much more nuanced than you claim it to be.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

News / 14 year old rape victim from Warsaw denied abortion! [348]

Good night, I'm turning in too.

>^..^<

M-G (busy tomorrow)

Food / Smoked carp are of this world! [13]

SeanBM

Just wondering: how the heck did he get that beast out of the water? The animal is nearly as big as himself. Loved one of the comments on the page: "Wow, that's ugly! The fish is ugly as well!" :))

I hope he put the poor animal back in the water again.

Edit: btw: tapeworm is THE solution for fat ppl, you'll lose weight without even going on a diet :)

>^..^<

M-G (let's not forget animal rights)

News / 14 year old rape victim from Warsaw denied abortion! [348]

Seanus

I'm leaving it all up to you, Seanus.

:)

>^..^<

M-G (is going to focus on animal rights again or maybe on Jews again - who knows)

News / JEW YOUTH SHOULD CLEAN UP THEIR ACT IN POLAND [420]


Hm, not even when those Ukrainians were killing them merrily? What is strange about your reasoning, is that you blame 1/3 of the Communist for everything the Commies did. I bet if it were Ukrainians who were 1/3 instead of Jews, it would be "those pore subjugated Ukrainians, they couldn't help but join the Commies." But alas, it's the Jews and 1/3 Jewish participation in the CP is enough to condemn them. Maybe you say you love the Jews, I can't shake the feeling that what the Jews did will always be just one step worse than what the Russians did or the Ukrainians. Jew created Bolshevism...1 of the 3 was a Jew, don't make me laugh. Poles know this. So they let themselves merrily be killed by Ukrainians as "those poor fellows can't help it, they just have to kill us". But the Jews on the other hand...They did it because they are evil and mean. Has it ever ocurred to you that the Jews may be forced to do this as well? Have you ever thought that it was all an evil scheme of Stalin to put two groups up against each other? Perhaps it was an evil plan of Stalin to put Jews deliberately in highly visible positions within the CP? Ever thought of that? I know about the Holodoro, Holodrome or whatever the STALIN-created famine in the Ukraine is called. It was Stalin's plan as well to make the Jews highly visible in this, even though their role was not as big as assumed. His plan was simply: dividae et conquerae and it worked. Poles and Jews hate each other thanks to the Russians and they both suffered tremendously during WW2.

Indeed, they should get at the table and work out their differences and then both turn to Russia, the big perpetrator. The big Slavic brother who has nothing but good in mind for it's slavic brothers. Ridiculous.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

News / 14 year old rape victim from Warsaw denied abortion! [348]


That's what they all do. And then they blame the Jews and Muslims for doing the same. It's all the same crap all over again.

>^..^<

M-G (Luctor et emergo)