News / Polish engineer beheaded in Pakistan. [347]


Well I am in UK at the moment so can't really comment. However I do have some close Polish friends and there are no complains there. Infact they were the ones who ended up consoling me since my parents are quite traumatized by whatever happened due this reciprocal situation. He was a Pole working in Pakistan and I am a Pakistani working in Poland. So my me and my family naturally took this tragedy more seriously than others. As for the people's attitude in general, I'll find that out in April. But I think even if they try to vent out their anger at me, I see their justification and I should be able to face it. For you people, its an ordinary internet discussion but for the majority of peace loving pakistanis outside Pakistan, it is a terrible situation just because we share the same nationality with a bunch of morons. They do it and we end up being hated for it.

News / Polish engineer beheaded in Pakistan. [347]


Strong enough to actually start ruling the country entirely....no...
but they are definitely strong enough to sprinkle s**t here and there for years to come making the lives of Pakistanis more annoying. Pakistani intelligence estimates there numbers to be between 10k to 20k, not enough to take control but surely enough to make their point here and there. How do I know? cuz I am a Pakistani :) and how does such a small number (compared to 90000 Pakistani soldiers in the region) survive? The answer is simple, they use gurella warfare. They disguise themselves in civilian population making it harder for the army to correcting identify the true enemy without agitating the civilians.


I am not saying there are not connected in anyway, of course they are, I mean they use the same title atleast. But looking at the history of two movements tells a slightly different story. Afghan talibs were representing an organized movement and they have defined goals and objectives. Pakistani ones are like bouncing atoms in a baloon. Even within themselves, they are factionized, they even use different aliases at different places. Their leadership is divided and totally decentralized. For example at one occasion, it was discovered as a result of investigations that a certain sub group within them even provides "rent-a-bomber" services in return for money. Two groups somewhere in the central Pakistan had money dispute so one of the groups actually hired (bought?) a suicide bomber to have their revenge. Now when it comes to that how can they claim that they represent some kind of genuine political movement. In these conditions what pisses off afghan taliban is the fact that they use their name to further their own agenda.


Yea possibly among many candidate sources of money. However dont forget that he shares his fortures with a bunch of his brothers (bunch means alot in arabic :P) which dont share the same point of view as him. However there is no doubt that there is plenty of money flowing in from KSA into this war as well.


True until this war started. One of their so called good features was eradication of poppy culture from many areas. But now probably they are not sniffing it up themselves but they are definitely using it as a economic weapon. Otherwise there is no reasonable explanation in terms of where that money is going since in recent times, afghanistan accounts for about 90% heroin smuggled around the globe and that amounts to billions of dollars. And moreover the areas where it is growing is outside the influence of allied forces and currently in control of taliban. So there is no other reasonable explanation as to where that money is going.


According to Congressional Research Reports USA, poppy accounted for 60% of afghan GDP in 2004. 2005 was a bad year but 2006 and 2007 saw record crops. Infact 2006 was the biggest in history (source: NYTimes article: Is Afghanistan a narco state?)

News / Polish engineer beheaded in Pakistan. [347]


Yes, the ultimate cash crop, the biggest chunk of their GDP.


Thats why I said half-assed fighters with no clear objectives. Kidnapping an innocent low profile civilian and demanding the release of their most notorious fighters is ridiculous. Killing him would do them more harm than good. Just an cowardly act of frustration I guess

News / Polish engineer beheaded in Pakistan. [347]


Thats where many conspiracy theories kick in. A simple straight forward and widely accepted answer would be drug money. Afghanistan and Pakistan share a very strategic geographic location and the presence of American troops is not an eye candy for the neighboring countries mainly Russia and China. China probably is just observing from a distance right now but its logical to assume that they might not be very happy about it since there is already a strategic US presence in the Pacific region. However so far they haven't been proposed in the money picture. However Russia does seem to have a fishy role especially after the Kyrgyz episode and the fact that all taleban use russian weapons. Iran is of course there too since they would not like US to stabilize in Afghanistan which will tighten the rope around their neck. Thats their main weapon smuggling route. When it comes to Pakistan, no story is complete without India in the picture and there have been stories floating of a possible indian financing scheme exclusively for anti-Pakistan groups. It became more evident after India opened up around 17 consulates in Afghanistan around the region that borders Pakistan, however I cannot comment on authenticity of this claim. Its an intelligent guess from within Pakistani think-tanks who also claim to have solid evidences of the money flow but who knows. One thing is for sure that there is not just one source of money. More than anything else, its money that will decide the eventual fate of this conflict.


First of all, all of them are not very centralized groups. Even within Pakistan several taleban groups operate that may or maynot cooperate with each other. As far as Al-qaeda is concerned, the story is also a mixed bag of cooperation and non-cooperation however afghani taliban do openly blame al-qaeda for their situation and hold them responsible for the presence of foreign forces in their country. A bit of political talk and incentives might help US achieve this goal. But then again if they had used a bit of brain they would've been able to pursuade taleban to handover OBL right there in 2001. Even at that time Afghan taleban didn't say no right away. They had their demands.

They also don't have a good opinion about pakistani taleban since they (afghan taleban) think that they have sort of hijacked their just movement. They are partly correct since pakistani taleban only appeared after 2004 as a reactionary/revenge element when Pakistan decided to send its troops to tribal areas in a haste. Compared to afghanis, Pakistani ones are a confused/angry group of half-ass fighters with no clear goals or objectives.

News / Polish engineer beheaded in Pakistan. [347]


Not at all. Nothing like that, you took me wrong. I was just comparing a reciprocal relationship that I share with him (RIP). I meant to say that I can understand what his family went through if same were to happen to me. I hope its clear :), my apologies if I offended you in some way :)


To some extent yes. But imagine a person who doesn't have any viable means to support his family. They offer them a good salary (when i first graduated from one of the best universities in the country I had the same salary as a taleban recruit today) and security to their family with a promise to support them in his absence/death.

Like any other military organization, taleban are not just a bunch of lunatic ready to blow suicide bombers. They have their alpha bravo and charlie companies with them too. So not everyone is a fighter, they need people to drive their vehicles, cook their food, bring in medical supplies, informers, spies and whatever else a military would need. So even if a person is not motivated enough to go on and blow himself up, he would not say no to a chef's job if he has no other choice. To give him an alternative, the government needs money and infrastructure in those areas which it doesn't have.

Thats exactly where a just military solution seems almost absurd. Since even among taleban, not every recruit shares the same degree of commitment to whatever their cause is. Lets say most of them won't say no to a better job offer. So not only a distinction between militants and civilians is required but they also need to distinguish within the group itself. Unfortunately, the whole philosophy of war on terror is way too binary, either you are a militant or you are not and even if you are not, its ok to kill a few in the name of collateral damage. The reality is that afghan taleban, pakistani taleban and al-qaeda are three seperate phenomena and they all happen to disown each other which I am sure many of you might not be aware of.

News / Polish engineer beheaded in Pakistan. [347]


In simple words, every Pakistani. To be more specific, apart from military, that would be 34% Shiite population and hanfi sunnis who are sunnis like taleban but they don't follow the same school of thought and they actually represent the majority of sunni followers in Pakistan. Right now, they are cashing in from the sentiments of tribals (civilian casualities of war, poverty, lack of education), however for the tribal people themselves tribal traditions come before Islam and they have started to realize that taleban is a threat to their social structure as well. The problem is that Pakistani government is failing to act in terms of winning the local support simply because they don't have those kinds of resources to act.

News / Polish engineer beheaded in Pakistan. [347]


Well its a bit more complex than that but I'll try to explain it. I am not a practicing muslim but I studied it in great detail especially after 9/11 in order to understand what the whole fuss was about. Many of you will be surprised but IMHO there is no such thing as an Islamic system of government. Islam never intended to chalk out a country's constitution. If there was such a thing as an Islamic state, there would be no Shias and Sunnis today. Right after the death of Muhammad, a conflict broke out in terms of who gets to be the next Caliph which gave rise to shia and sunni factions. Among sunnis, there is one kind that are directly influenced by the Islam practiced in Saudi Arabia which is nothing more than a mean to control masses without giving them a chance to complain and all in the name of religion. The other kind which mostly exists in Pakistan and east of Pakistan, is the more easy going type. They may or may not take their religion seriously but they surely dont want a Saudi style system.

So when you talk about taliban infiltrating and forcing a system of belief, there is going to be a lot of opposition to that since there is no defined Islamic state as I mentioned earlier. In the tribal areas of Pakistan there is a battle going on already based on sacterian divide since there is a large Shia population living there who are obviously resistive against taliban. Based on their threat tactics, they cannot go all the way because sooner or later they will face some competition. Right now they are only limited to Pashtun settlements. Once they try to go out and create a similar situation elsewhere, they are not likely to win but this could very well mean a civil war.

News / Polish engineer beheaded in Pakistan. [347]


Its hard to say. They don't have any moral support of masses in general. Their tactics are threat based. For example, one day some shopkeepers in a multimedia market would get a message to close down their businesses or face the consequences. If they don't comply, they would blow up a shop or two and make their point. So I would say that their tactics are threat based which are not likely to win any hearts and minds. Besides Pakistan is worlds 5th largest country with such a huge level of diversity that its painful.....really. To control such a massive population with threat alone is not likely going to work.

News / Polish engineer beheaded in Pakistan. [347]

Spot on Seasus,

What scares people is the fact that whenever there is corruption and too much injustice in the society, its usually followed by something revolutionary (iran, soviet union etc.). In this case it happens to be taliban who are offering an alternative that noone is willing to accept atleast in Pakistan proper. Whenever, someone happens to be victimized by the coalition forces (including Pakistanis), its provides a perfect opportunity for the radical leadership to get more recruits. Working for them means that you can earn pretty much the same as a fresh graduate. So this war needs to be fought at several fronts and not just military. Carpet bombings will just make things worse unless you eradicate the whole population.

News / Polish engineer beheaded in Pakistan. [347]

I am a muslim and a pakistani and an engineer too currently working in poland. I am truly shocked at this news since I am in similar shoes as that poor guy was. However what makes me sad is this ongoing discussion about true/false muslims. Whatever is happening over there is a political war and both stakeholders misuse religion and Islam to their own interest. Some western governments and media use it to fuel anti-islamic sentiments and those taliban use it against poor teenagers to recruit them. This is not a war of one ideology against another, its purely politically motivated just like any other war.

Its true that muslims need to be educated about many things and out of those things, many won't change. What we all need to to do accept each others cultural differences. I have seen and lived both cultures and I understand the justifications from both sides.

As far as the radical streak is concerned that a friend just mentioned, it doesnot necessarily support taliban ideology. I have lived in Pakistan for about 22 years and trust me folks, all those true/untrue/radical/moderate muslims are as scared of talibanization as you would be. They don't want it, some of them are not very vocal about it, some of them despise it but nobody religious or not, wants to live in a society where religion is imposed except for those who'll be the imposers.