News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


Eh? After WWI, who could blame Poland????? Deutsches schulden didn't DESERVE it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Deutsches, schulden sie gehabt!!!

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


It's a fact. Poland, alone, didn't have the military might to handle Germany. Polish fighters tried but Poland needed it's own wehrmacht or collaboration with others to realistically defend itself against German aggression.

The Soviets could have challenged Germany's aggression had it not been for the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. Of course this was all cleverly and covertly planned out...very secretively and clandestinely too, may I add ;) ;) ;) ;-)

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


It was a shambles...but that isn't the entire story.


That sounds like something an American would say :D :D :D :D :D


You have to admit Poland is one country that hasn't got a good history of fighting and winning wars. What could Poland have done?

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


You just saying that because you know I'm right. Truth hurts. I understand.


Blame Poland for the invasion of Poland. Hmm. stuff like this has happened before and was justified after a civil war or something occuring in the country being invaded.

Invading Poland over Gdańsk - entirely unjustified.

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


And you seem like a typical sociopath.
I think the US are to blame as well but come on. Think of the distance! US is half way across the world Britain and France are in Germany's backyard. Of those three, who is obviously going to have an easier time acting quickly?


Without ratifying, how much responsibility does the US have?
One huge mistake with the treaty was Western Europe wanting to punish Germany financially instead of militarily. Would have been much better keeping them from having a navy and air force while allowing their economy to thrive.

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


Not entirely but Britain has responsibility. Britain and France were the closest to the situation. Back then, they were in the position to act much more quickly.

During the 1930s, rapid deployment of troops from far away(as in across the Atlantic Ocean...that kind of distance) was much more complicated! How can it be denied Britain and France, because of proximity, be the first responders?

America should have committed it's share after the ground invasion by Britain and France, or done it's part to enforce the points before. US failed there.

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]

Only to the sociopathic. The best course of action to everyone else would have been not allowing the wehrmacht to get as powerful as it became. Why not just admit the truth? Western Europe initially wanted the wehrmacht because of the Soviets and their huge numbers.

There was all kinds of talk about Bolshevikism and fear of that. Talk of communism and even more paranoia there. Western Europe was scared of the Soviet Union.

Britain and France miscalculated tho' , when they trusted Germany to be the one with the wehrmacht. They should have learned their lesson during WWI.

Obviously, Britain and France didn't calculate the aggression. Mistake on their parts that took many, many, lives and not just civilians. They put their own troops at much greater risk by trusting Germany. Originally, Britain thought it was just going to be Poland but Germany kept grabbing more.

The reason Poland was betrayed is because it was seen as a bubbling couldron of communism and bolshevikism. It was seen as unstable and unpredictable. Western Europe wasn't in the mood for any more revolutionaries, and wanted to eradicate which is exactly what happened.

I don't think Britain would have done anything at all if it weren't for international pressure and the threat of Germany. They miscalculated the aggression of Germany. Who knows, maybe they didn't think the Blitz would happen...I read somewheres that Germany didn't initially want a war with Britain and wanted to be allies.

Regardless, Britain was willing to sacrifice Poland, for reasons stated above, apparently.

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


You only say that because you know I make a valid point. I point the fingers at the ones who deserve it. The ones who did nothing. You say I am ignorant????? DID WORLD WAR II HAPPEN???? Oh, let me guess it's some media conspiracy, it never actually happened which is a crazy lie Europe wants the rest of the world to believe.

Why don't you address my questions about the Treaty Of Versailles and how Germany was allowed to violate it's "points".
I think they were allowed to do that so the Wehrmacht could become a formidable force against the Soviet military.

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]

A group of men sat in judgement of Germany. They were known as the 'Big Four'.

© IWM

Vittorio Orlando - Italian premier who wanted territory promised in Treaty of London (1915), and maybe more.
David Lloyd George - British prime minister who wanted the support of the British public by punishing Germany.
Georges Clemenceau - French prime minister who wanted the Treaty to prevent Germany from attacking France ever again.
Woodrow Wilson - American president who wanted the League of Nations formed, and a fair treaty for Germany.

The Fourteen Points transformed into the Treaty:

Fourteen Points Treaty of Versailles
Reduce military to the 'lowest point consistent with domestic safety'. Germany’s army was reduced to 100,000 men. They were forbidden to have tanks or an air force. The area between France and Germany - the Rhineland - was made into a demilitarised zone, which meant that no military forces could enter this area.

SOMEONE CARE TO FILL IN THE BLANKS????????

'An independent Poland to be established, with free and secure access to the Sea' Territory from Russia taken by the Germans was used to create Poland. Land from East Prussia gave Poland access to the Sea. Upper Silesia, a strong industrial centre between Poland and Germany, was given temporary independence.

Which is why Poland got Gdańsk!

GEE, WHAT HAPPENED HERE LQQK:

'Freedom of the Seas.' (Britain protested this) Germany was not allowed to keep any submarines, and could only keep six large ships.

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


It's better to ask yourself: WHY WAS GERMANY THE ONLY COUNTRY THAT BUILT UP A WEHRMACHT AFTER WWI??????
Why didn't Britain have a better air force considering the allied victory????

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


After the ending of the Franco-Prussian war in 1871.

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


I believe this would have greatly helped Poland. I have no idea why Britain and France waited.

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


You would have had to attach bombs to the leaflets then send in your ground forces.
Both bombs and leaflets should have fell on Germany during September of '39. '42 was too late, wtf??? What's the point?

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


The Second Reich, also known as The German Empire, ruled by the Hohenzollern dynasty, in the areas known as Prussia and Brandenburg, from 1871 to 1919, they fell with the ending of World War I. During this Reich the "Iron Chancellor" Otto Von Bismark united Germany, and set the stage for World War I.

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


Do you entirely miss the point??? WAS there a WORLD WAR called ONE????? Did the allies win it?????
Was it fought against Germany when it was the second reich???
WHY?????? WOULD??????? BRITAIN?????? PUBLICALLY?????SIDE?????WITH????GERMANY?????
after the treaty of Versaille?
The real question is why did Europe let Germany build another huge military after the signing of the treaty. It's craziness!!!! Germany violated everything and no one did anything about it!

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


You keep reading into everything this hatred of Britain. I don't hate Britain. I question the reactions of any authority.

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YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS!!!! Are you connected to reality????? Who was under Soviet rule until what, 1991, I think I read in this thread?????? How can you say this?????? This is incredible!

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


Wouldn't you rather call us "Poles in the Diaspora"????

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


My surname is Bienkowski, a polish name of jewish descent.


Those are just excuses. The North Sea was NOT the only way in. There was no effort to coordinate with Poland on the part of Britain and France. They didn't collaborate.

You are ignoring the build up of the Luftwaffe as part of the wehrmacht. THE REAL ISSUE is Germany being allowed to do this AFTER they lost WWI and signed the Treaty Of Versailles that was designed to severely LIMIT them.

Did Britain allow the Wehrmacht to build because of paranoia about Bolshevikism? One has to wonder?
Britain and France could have stopped the wehrmacht before it ever started.

As for the plastic polishness it's just an excuse, according to some, to not have an opinion.

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


Can you tell me what, exactly, you mean? I am not familiar with your terminology. I have no plastic additions, last I checked.


It DOES reek of CONSPIRACY!!!! Facts are facts and Europe seems anti polish. Germany has been ANTI POLISH since before WWII.
I just read the intial post and, yes, Ozi Dan did use one slight, the derogatory term "Pom". I thought it was in response to those accusing the Polish of "whinging".

Don't you realize how difficult it would be for the US to intervene at the time? Now, no, back then, yes. Britain was much CLOSER!!!

Best scenario would have been Britain and France attacking Germany right after the Polish invasion, with US backing them up ASAP.

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I didn't read the intitial post because this thread is so long and incase you didn't notice, I didn't jump in at the beginning. I didn't visit the forum for a whiles, but when I did I saw this thread.

As for betrayal, that is not brit bashing, that is history. You cannot deny it. Bashing is calling someone a degrading name, true, but I haven't called anyone anything degrading. I just confronted the anti polish sentiment in this thread with reality.

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Wasn't it Heinrich Himmler who said he wanted to destroy all Poles, or something to that effect? Correct me if I am wrong. But if you do correct me, make sure you do so with accurate information and not a watered down British excuse.

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Am I the one who starts these threads???? I just respond when posters start bashing Polish.
Keep in mind, there would have been far less casualities if Britain and France would have confronted Germany as soon as they invaded Poland. Why do you think the war took such a tremendous toll on human life???? Because of that initial stall!!!

Britain actually suffered MORE casualities because they waited. It was bad for them, they were going to have to get involved sooner or later anyway.

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


That's another fallacy. It wasn't just the Jews. It was an entire country. Germany wanted to completely obliterate Poland and Europe did nothing.

Quit trying to divide and conquer!!! The people who died were POLISH!!!!
Anyway, why bring up the past? To learn from it. It's not to cause bitterness and hatred today. It's more about confronting it and discussing it. I am not going to pretend like Britain didn't have any responsibility whatsoever.

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Oh PLEASE!!!!! How many degrading, anti Polish posts have been posted by British members of this forum???? It seems like a free-for-all and relentless bashing. That is what I am responding to. Just who is it, really? Who are the ones taking out their bitterness on other members of this forum?

What about all those negative stereotypes attributed to pompous british who's superiority is rooted in ignorance alone????? Why not stop contributing to those?

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


This is why the best chances were right after the invasion of Poland by Germany. Would have been much more difficult managing a war on two fronts.


By going thru Germany. There would have been no avoiding that. It would, however, have saved millions of lives.

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I realize I am in the US and this has, without a doubt, influenced my view on this. Please do not resort to calling me a moron just because you happen to be English, have a Polish gf and wish to keep the peace.

Just because I am not actually in Poland doesn't mean I can't have an opinion. From over here it looks like most of Europe has been anti Polish for quite some time.

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If you insist on being anti Poland I will keep posting my opinion on that!

Okay: Here's a good question. I know this is the past and all we can really do now is learn a thing or two from it. That's why I think this is a good question to ask.

My question is: Why was Germany allowed to create it's wehrmacht in the first place. WWI had just happened, GERMANY had just LOST.
WHY WERE THEY ALLOWED TO CREATE THE WEHRMACHT????!!!!???!!!!
That is a valid question. The Treaty of Versailles was just signed and yet Europe allowed Germany to amass this mighty military force. How did this happen???? Most important of all: WHY did it????

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Oh Please! Who's the troll here? I notice a lot of posts aren't exactly in favor of Poland. I would say the real TROLLS are the ones posting THOSE!!!

I happen to have half my roots in Poland DON'T you DARE call me a TROLL!!!

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]



You know, the irony is, Britain and France would have been better off fighting at this time instead of waiting. They just gave Germany more time to build up the wehrmacht.

That's why the Blitz starting in 1940 was so intense. Britain would have been better off had they fought a war in Germany on the ground right after Germany invaded Poland. They left themselves wide open for the Blitz. Tsk. Tsk.