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Posts by Bratwurst Boy  

Joined: 2 Apr 2007 / Male ♂
Warnings: 1 - Q		 Last Post: 23 Nov 2024
Threads: Total: 8 / In This Archive: 2
Posts: Total: 11821 / In This Archive: 3273 		From: Berlin, Germany
Speaks Polish?: No
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Displayed posts: 3275 / page 14 of 110
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Bratwurst Boy   
11 Oct 2009
History / Matters of Propaganda...Or: how was the West portrayed in Poland? [150]

I never said that.

No..I did say that! :)
And the discussions here on this board are very convincing. There are mostly only arrogant statements of their "braveness" without any evidence to support that.

Whereas on the other hand other people are downtalked...they are brainwashing themselves!

As for the victims and those doing the shooting, how were they portrayed in the media (east vs. west)?

You got only to know about it the shootings and the victims in the west-german media, they tried always to find out names and such.

In the GDR such things didn't happen, were not much talked about....they called them "Republik Flüchtlinge". If one wanted to know something he had to listen to west-radio...
Bratwurst Boy   
11 Oct 2009
History / Matters of Propaganda...Or: how was the West portrayed in Poland? [150]

Google Forest Brothers: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forest_Brothers#The_partisan_war

Fascinating Baltics! :)

Zone was the best comrade and proven friend of the Great Soviet Union.

The party surely was!
But we won't judge the countries because of the party leadership, won't we?
I would never judge the Poles about the participation in the murdering of the brave resisters in Prague, now won't I.
Or that 35 million of Poles never once tried to get rid of the few soviet troops in their country...naaah
Or that barely a Pole risked death to become free..

I'm trying to believe Poles are innate brave and upstanding people instead! (As they tell me all the time)

Not some troublemaker like the rest of the gang - Poles,

I'm still waiting...when did Poles ever mean trouble for the Soviets???
Bratwurst Boy   
11 Oct 2009
History / Matters of Propaganda...Or: how was the West portrayed in Poland? [150]

What upraising ?
Some frustrated underpaid workers 1953 ?
Some riots at the best

Well..more riots than Poland had...
You must have been quite happy about your situation, no riots at all...

In those years thousands partisans were fighting commies from the Oder river to Tallinn in the Baltics.

Tell me more about the polish partisans...

PS: You don't mean those partisans who had fighted shortly before still with the Wehrmacht againt the oncoming red army? The "Forest Brothers"?
Bratwurst Boy   
11 Oct 2009
History / Matters of Propaganda...Or: how was the West portrayed in Poland? [150]

East Germans gave up after one try while Poles tried for decades, in spite of 60K soviet troops in Poland and another 300+ next door at our commie brethren in DDR

Do you listen to yourself man?
We had an uprising, every year people go murdered trying to leave the country...a huge army of soviet soldiers was stationed in the GDR and I have the statistics to prove that but still you try to present the Poles as the "toughest nut" who resisted most? How? What proof do you have?

What next? More brave than the Czechs? More resisting than the Hungarians??? WHEN??? When did you do all that??? Maybe I really lack the education but then clue me in!
Bratwurst Boy   
11 Oct 2009
History / Matters of Propaganda...Or: how was the West portrayed in Poland? [150]

And yet Poles held its first free elections after the fall of communism almost two months before East Germans decided it was safe to do some masonry work on the wall.

Well..you on the other hand were safe to do that all along! But...what took you so long?
Didn't you wanted that for decades??? You tough nut you...
Bratwurst Boy   
11 Oct 2009
History / Matters of Propaganda...Or: how was the West portrayed in Poland? [150]

You are younger than me, so stop pretending to be some cold war veteran as that's cartoonish.

Nothing "veteran" about it!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Gueffroy

...Chris Gueffroy (June 21, 1968 - February 6, 1989) was the last person to be shot while trying to escape to West Berlin across the Berlin Wall.

Wow, so after all it wasnt only East Gerans who rebelled against commies?

No, East-Germany, Hungary, Prague...ooops...no Warsaw??? How come???
After listening to you one could believe you led the fight all the way! Weren't you the "toughest nut"?

None was killed trying to escape to DDR for sure.

Well, they could had tried traveling to Germany...East-Germans tried to flee from every country they could reach!
Bratwurst Boy   
11 Oct 2009
History / Matters of Propaganda...Or: how was the West portrayed in Poland? [150]

That's not crap but obvious fact and I'm sure you know It.

No, I don't know it...that's why I ask you for more links!

You must know I lived so near the wall I could hear regularly shots from the guards. Sometimes one would hear about the happening next morning in the Rias, sometimes not.

Maybe I halluzinated all the time?
Help me out here....gimme links!

I have one for the "brave, resisting" Poles:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Bloc#Prague_Spring_and_the_1968_invasion_of_Czechoslovakia

...On the night of August 20-21, 1968, Eastern Bloc armies from four Warsaw Pact countries - the Soviet Union, Bulgaria, Polandand Hungary-invaded Czechoslovakia.[225][226] The invasion comported with the Brezhnev Doctrine, a policy of compelling Eastern Bloc states to subordinate national interests to those of the Bloc as a whole and the exercise of a Soviet right to intervene if an Eastern Bloc country appeared to shift towards capitalism .[227][228] ...

Yeah...what a tough, resisting nut Poland proved to be for the commies!
Bratwurst Boy   
11 Oct 2009
History / Matters of Propaganda...Or: how was the West portrayed in Poland? [150]

Escape was nigh on impossible given the vast concentration of soldiers and monitoring.

Ooooh...not for the brave Poles...don't shatter my ideal!
When the Germans could do it why couldn't the Poles (or at least trying)?

I think it's full on topic! The Poles talking themselves into brave resisters to commie oppression compared to cowardly Germans IS a kind of propaganda, a myth they repeat often enough...:)
Bratwurst Boy   
11 Oct 2009
History / Matters of Propaganda...Or: how was the West portrayed in Poland? [150]

What kind of opportunities had Poles to escape ? Walk to Czechoslovakia ?

Well...german people got murdered trying to cross the border as far as down in Bulgaria/Greece.
What kept the Poles?

I repeat, all serious historians and other people with some knowledge about these things will tell you that DDR was much more Sovietized than Polish People's Republic. Get over that.

Just repeating crap doesn't make it less crap!
Care to give some links?
Bratwurst Boy   
11 Oct 2009
History / Matters of Propaganda...Or: how was the West portrayed in Poland? [150]

Bratwurst Boy:
No, my opinion is clear, there is no people loving freedom more than the other (that was Z_Darius)

Where the hell did I say that?
Quote me.

Poland was unique within the Soviet Block though. The most difficult nut to crack for the Soviets. The only country where religion was left alone and where the default reaction of the general population to the commie propaganda was by default: bullcrap. Hence, according to the Soviet ideologues who mapped the road to the absolute communist nirvana in 10 stages, the USSR was at stage 10, Poland at stage 1.

They had alot of difficulties to find polish soldiers to help with the spring of Prague, didn't they...

What's the difference where those troops were stationed?

Oh...you mean the cowardly East-Germans should have tried another uprising as the masses of red armists at their doors were meant for the brave Poles only anyhow???

That happened in all communist block countries to a greater or lesser degree.

How many Poles were killed trying to flee the country again???

Largest number of uprisings against communism.

Where? When?

The strong position of church in Poland held the nation together against commies

Not very successfull then, weren't they?
The commies had Poland in their grip till 1989, like any other country in the eastern bloc.
And it wasn't martians nor the very few armed Russians but polish commies!!!
Bratwurst Boy   
11 Oct 2009
History / Matters of Propaganda...Or: how was the West portrayed in Poland? [150]

This argument is about which place was more communist hating?

No, my opinion is clear, there is no people loving freedom more than the other (that was Z_Darius).
I said from the beginning that all people in the eastern bloc felt more or less the same and wanted freedom and independence as they had in the West.

And youz are proving that by stating how many soviet troop were in each country at the time?

Well...when one poster brags about his "brave, communism-hating" people but has nothing to show for it but his opinion (not even an uprising but only few troops he could have surely thrown out if he had hated them so much)...such numbers are helpful to show him the reality! :)
Bratwurst Boy   
11 Oct 2009
History / Matters of Propaganda...Or: how was the West portrayed in Poland? [150]

BBoy, you need to read up on those. You obviously have no idea.

Well, at least we tried..

You had 60.000 enemy troops keeping in check more than 30 million "freedom loving, communism hating, brave" Poles.

The eastern Germans had to put up with nearly 350.000 enemy troops for 15 Million "cowards", right?

But they at least tried it and paid with more than 900 people murdered at the wall over the years...

lol...

Absolutely!
You should keep that in mind the next time you go on with your insane raving about the "barbarian" Russians again...

Gorbatschov was under fire from his own hardliners who couldn't wait to show you the might of the soviet armies...in the GDR the party leadership even asked him for military support but he kept them at bay!

Another clue that some Poles have an absolutely skewed self-image...really believing they were more freedom-loving, more brave or in any way most important for the fall of the iron curtain! :)
Bratwurst Boy   
11 Oct 2009
History / Matters of Propaganda...Or: how was the West portrayed in Poland? [150]

Thanks for the info.

Uh...now compare that with Poland:

globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/gsfp.htm

Group of Soviet Forces in Poland
Northern Group of Forces (NGF)

...Among the difficult issues the new government confronted in redefining its relationship with the Soviet Union were the presence of some 58,000 Soviet troops on Polish territory;...

whoa! ;)

Not even 60.000 in the whole country but telling how much they "hated" communism and claiming East Germans did nothing compared to them...what a people!

Did you at least had an uprising as in East Germany 1953? Or in other Warsaw bloc countries like in Hungary or Prague? No? Oh wait...you "commie-hating-Poles" helped out with Panzers, didn't you!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uprising_of_1953_in_East_Germany
Bratwurst Boy   
11 Oct 2009
History / Matters of Propaganda...Or: how was the West portrayed in Poland? [150]

So it's quite logical that the Soviets kept more troops there than anywhere else...

Why are you telling me all that? I LIVED THERE!

Get some figure out, how many Soviet soldiers in each country?

Group of Soviet Forces in Germany

Structure and equipment in 1991

The Soviet troops occupied 777 barracks plants at 276 locations on the territory of the GDR. This also included 47 airfields and 116 exercise areas. At the beginning of 1991 there were still about 338,000 soldiers in 24 divisions, distributed among five land armies and an air army in what was by then the WGF. In addition there were still about 208,000 relatives of officers as well as civil employees came, among them were about 90,000 children. Most locations were in the area of today's Brandenburg.

In 1991 there were approximately: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_of_Soviet_Forces_in_Germany

At the end of the 1980s, the primary Soviet formations included:

* 1st Guards Tank Red Banner Army, Dresden
o 9th Guards Tank Division
o 11th Guards Tank Division
o 20th Motor Rifle Division
* 2nd Guards Tank Army, Fürstenberg/Havel
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12th_Guards_Tank_Division

Bratwurst Boy   
11 Oct 2009
History / Matters of Propaganda...Or: how was the West portrayed in Poland? [150]

That varies quite a bit, are there people in East Germany that miss communism?

There are commies everywhere, but quite marginal and if then they dream of an illusion, not the dreary reality the GDR proved to be.

Sh!loads or soviet troops in Poland.
You clearly have no idea.

Well...Poland had not many of them there.
If Poles hated communism so much, what took you so long???

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_of_Soviet_Forces_in_Germany
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_forces_in_Poland
Bratwurst Boy   
11 Oct 2009
History / Matters of Propaganda...Or: how was the West portrayed in Poland? [150]

As I'm not "The" East-Germans I can't tell you how "They" felt.
But surely not much different than all the others in the eastern bloc..

On the other hand I firmly believe that the end of the cold war and the fall of the Iron Curtain is thanked to the perestroika and Gorbatschow. He brought the change in which wake all this could happen.

Another hardliner in Gorbatschovs place and it would just had been some more bloodily destroyed uprisings been.
Bratwurst Boy   
11 Oct 2009
History / Matters of Propaganda...Or: how was the West portrayed in Poland? [150]

East Germans, however, did sweet squat about it. And then, when it was perfectly safe they started demolishing the wall.

You don't know much, don't you...
How many Poles died at the wall or got murdered leaving the country?
You had just a tiny part of those russian troops in the country that the GDR had. The Russians must have quite trusted you to not doing anything "wrong"...

Ever heard of the monday-demonstrations in Leipzig? And how could the "wall-demolishers" had known they wouldn't end up like the students at the Tiananmen place?

See, Poles made no secrets about their hatred to communism.

Yeah...that's why the commies stayed as long in power in Poland as in the GDR...so much hatred! Or not so much at all?

Next you say Poland alone broke the Iron Curtain...
You are an idiot!
Bratwurst Boy   
11 Oct 2009
History / Matters of Propaganda...Or: how was the West portrayed in Poland? [150]

Later on he adapted the idea of change as Gorbi had described

Gorbi had (and still has) many fans in Eastern Germany too, but not communists! :)

*Remembers fondly the RIAS*

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rundfunk_im_amerikanischen_Sektor
Bratwurst Boy   
11 Oct 2009
History / Matters of Propaganda...Or: how was the West portrayed in Poland? [150]

Yeah....things changed here too. Things get more difficult, not so clear borders anymore.
The Linke in Eastern Germany is more like the SPD in the West, but The Linke in West Germany is full of ideological hard core commie nutters of the old school.

Decades old synonyms don't hold anymore...
Bratwurst Boy   
11 Oct 2009
History / Matters of Propaganda...Or: how was the West portrayed in Poland? [150]

The communists in the West are one of the most despisable idiots I ever encountered...supporting things they have no idea of and would hate if they would have to live in it, but nonetheless hating people fighting for their freedom from communism for destroying their nice and comfy illusions...bah!
Bratwurst Boy   
11 Oct 2009
History / Matters of Propaganda...Or: how was the West portrayed in Poland? [150]

I don't know about you MG but in my experience people were not very interested about the great politics, much more about their "little" private lives and how to go on best about it. ;)

I surely never saw people discussing an impending war at the busstop!
I don't remember any anti-west propaganda very successfull - it was more like people being forced to listen, nodding outwardly and rolling their eyes inwardly! Even as it was strictly forbidden, the most popular radio station in East Berlin was the RIAS from West Berlin ("Radio in the American Sector")

(And I was born and bred in Berlin, Sonnenallee is near my home, I could practically see the Iron Curtain from my window. The last one killed on the wall came from my neighbourhood. Should a war had happened I would had been the frontline - and probably toast....just imagine: No Bratwurst Boy anymore!!!!)
Bratwurst Boy   
11 Oct 2009
History / Matters of Propaganda...Or: how was the West portrayed in Poland? [150]

The only country where religion was left alone and where the default reaction of the general population to the commie propaganda was by default: bullcrap.

What makes you say so? What makes you think Poles are different to most other peoples who want to live in freedom?
I think that was the case in most if not all countries in the eastern bloc.
I know for example that the BND secretly polled the GDRians regularly till up to '89 what they think and that the answers was overwhelmingly that they still believe in the unity of the nation and despise the party (Der Spiegel had an article about that shortly)

spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,654408,00.html

...Der BND befragte bis 1989 systematisch Hunderte von DDR-Bürgern. Die Auswertungen liegen nun erstmals vor. Ein Großteil der Ostdeutschen bekannte sich laut den Geheimdienstunterlagen zur Einheit der Nation und lehnte das SED-Regime ab....

Bratwurst Boy   
8 Oct 2009
History / Slavs vs Germanics: Battle of the centuries [44]

Slavs are normal people while Germans are a little bit idiots. See what germanization can do to one

That's why Serbs have such a low IQ, right? *snicker*

southern

You forgot:

10. Best Pal of Crowie

(Their arguments are only logical to them)