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WAS WAŁĘSA A SECRET POLICE COLLABORATOR?


Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448  
5 Jun 2008 /  #1
The controversy as to whether Lech Wałęsa in thde 1970s was a secret collaborator (tajny współpracownik) code-named Bolek has flared anew. A new book published by the IPN (National Remebrance Institute) claim to have conclusive proof to that effect. One group of intellecuals and public figures have issued an open letter defending Wałęsa against the charges and condemning the book. Another group has issued an appeal defending freedom of research, saying there can be no sacred cows and the full truth must come out. President Kaczyński has said the Bolek epsiode was true, and now Wałęsa wants him impeached. More typically Polish infighting and squabbling or is there more to it than that? What do you think?
plk123 8 | 4,150  
5 Jun 2008 /  #2
it really doesn't matter because the result is..

More typically Polish infighting and squabbling

:(
janekb - | 57  
5 Jun 2008 /  #3
There are no sacred cows. If there was a secret it is already out, on the other hand populus always want new sensations. I think tha it is in our interest to investigate this matter openly. I am not sure if that will be of help, you Americans know this wery well as a John Kennedy assasination conspiracy comes up again and again.
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
5 Jun 2008 /  #4
Big deal. In 1970's he was even younger and dumber than in 1981. And btw. he is the one who had the guts to start and organize the strikes in Gdansk.

I betcha many of those researches kissed commie behinds in the 70's and now they are "holier than though". There were over 3 million part member in Poland. Who knows how many of them are now at IPN.

A large number of company owners in Poland today were none other by little commie fvcks - now big capitalist fishes. And no, they did not deserve to become the owners. They robbed others. Simple as that. I think this is far more important issue to address than one young fella's alleged mistakes.
polishgirltx  
5 Jun 2008 /  #5
he is the one who had the guts to start and organize the strikes in Gdansk.

i don't think he was the one who 'wisely' became the leader.... i think he was chosen to be one...
scorpio 20 | 188  
6 Jun 2008 /  #6
Whether or not Walesa was a secret police collaborator must be investigated and a conclusion must be reached. The IPN (The Institute of National Remembrance) is a highly qualified organization and must shed some light on the matter.
VaFunkoolo 6 | 654  
6 Jun 2008 /  #7
More typically Polish infighting and squabbling

With a side order of lying and denial, please. Make it a double
mafketis 21 | 7,590  
6 Jun 2008 /  #8
Another group has issued an appeal defending freedom of research, saying there can be no sacred cows and the full truth must come out.

This implies that they're endorsing the contents of the book.
The letter I saw implied no such thing. Those writing the "pro-" book letter clearly took no opinion on the merits of the book itself.

They just saying (and I completely agree) that the book should be evaluated by those qualified after publication and not suppressed before publication.

If the book doesn't have any real, convincing evidence, it and the authors should be condemned _after_ publication.
Puzzy 1 | 150  
6 Jun 2008 /  #9
whether Lech Wałęsa in thde 1970s was a secret collaborator (tajny współpracownik) code-named Bolek [...] A new book published by the IPN (National Remebrance Institute) claim to have conclusive proof to that effect.

- Does the 'new book' really 'claim' it so? Is that a fact? Where specifically (what chapter, page, etc.)? Can you give the pertinent quote? So the book is already available in Polish bookshops? And only yesterday I read in the Polish press that the book was going to be published yet. This would appear to mean that it wasn't published as recently as yesterday. Have you read the book? If yes, how have you managed to do that?

:)
VaFunkoolo 6 | 654  
6 Jun 2008 /  #10
Kaczynski said that he does not have to read the book to know that Walesa was an agent. He knows, without having read the book, that the book tells the truth about that period of Walesa's life.

Walesa says that Polish President Lech Kaczynski should be removed from the government

It's all too funny, really
Puzzy 1 | 150  
6 Jun 2008 /  #11
It's all too funny, really

- Why so funny?

Kaczynski said that he does not have to read the book to know that Walesa was an agent

- As an important political figure who was once close to Walesa, Kaczynski may indeed know some classified information on which to base his statement, don't you think? In the past he said a few other things about Walesa not to the latter's liking. Once Walesa even sued Kaczynski for alleged slander. Would Kaczynski risk today another legal action from Walesa and a harm to his credibility by lying about Walesa's alleged collaboration with the Communist secret service?
VaFunkoolo 6 | 654  
6 Jun 2008 /  #12
Why so funny?

Because it's so typically Polish. Try and see how funny it all looks from an outside perspective, Puzzy :)

And then read the last paragraph you have written above and how funny that looks in relation to what you wrote previously.

PS. Just because I am saying you are funny, it doesn't mean that I am Polonophalic
lesser 4 | 1,311  
6 Jun 2008 /  #13
First of all, I don't claim to know how it was. However it make sense, I mean Walesa being secret agent in the 70's. Try to think like a communists whom saw that old system wont last long and decided for transformation. First and foremost they cared about their interest being secured, personal safety and financial status. They passed the power in the hands of their agents and I don't mean Walesa at all. Because they let him to became people's leader. Why Walesa? This is perfect candidate from their perspective, dumb person, easy to manipulate without even knowing what is going on. He was surrounded by 'proper advisers'. Another reason why Walesa was perfect would be this story from the past. For sure it was nothing really serious but if necessary he could be blackmailed.
Puzzy 1 | 150  
6 Jun 2008 /  #14
Because it's so typically Polish

- Specifically why would 'it' (what?) be 'so typically Polish'?

Try and see how funny it all looks from an outside perspective, Puzzy :)

- What do you mean by 'an outside perspective'? Why should I try and see how funny 'it all' (what?) looks from the outside perspective? Why don't you tell me how funny 'it all' looks from the outside perspective?

And then read the last paragraph you have written above and how funny that looks in relation to what you wrote previously.

- What do you mean in the above quote? Do you mean that a paragraph I wrote looks 'funny' when the paragraph is compared with something I had written prior to writing the paragraph? What specific paragraph and previous text of mine do you mean? Why should the former look 'funny' as compared to the latter?

[quote=VaFunkoolo]PS. Just because I am saying you are funny, it doesn't mean that I am Polonophalic

- It depends on what you mean by 'Polonophalic.'

What is your nationality and ethnicity, pal?

What 'ethnick' group in America enjoys a fallic-faecal type of humour above all...?
:)
VaFunkoolo 6 | 654  
6 Jun 2008 /  #15
It depends on what you mean by 'Polonophalic.'

Sorry. I didn't mean to be offensive. I was thinking that in English, 'pole' is another word for a man's plonker and i must have just written it. I wasn't thinking about men's plonkers in particular. It was just a slip of the keyboard. I really don't think all Poles are plonkers.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163  
6 Jun 2008 /  #16
Lech Wałęsa

Screw him. Old moron.
Puzzy 1 | 150  
6 Jun 2008 /  #17
Sorry. I didn't mean to be offensive

- So what is your nationality and ethnicity?
:)

In 1970's he was even younger and dumber than in 1981

- So Lech Walesa was 'dumb' in 1981? And why specifically?

he is the one who had the guts to start [...] the strikes in Gdansk

- Is he, really?

many of those researches kissed commie behinds in the 70's

- Have you got any proof they did? Give it. Meowrci (='thanks' in the cat language).

There were over 3 million part member in Poland. Who knows how many of them are now at IPN.

- Do you know it? Please share your knowledge with me.

A large number of company owners in Poland today were none other by little commie fvcks - now big capitalist fishes

- Can you give their names, please? Meowrci.

I think this is far more important issue to address than one young fella's alleged mistakes.

- Why 'more important'? Would it be 'more important' even if the 'young fella' were indeed in cahouts with those once-Communist-today-capitalist 'big fishes'?

Big deal

I betcha

one young fella's

Simple as that

- How excellent zdarius the cat's command of English is! It's just like that of many a native speaker! He's squeezed himself so very deep into the very fundament of the language that he sometimes forgets how to spell Polish surnames!

:)
Matyjasz 2 | 1,544  
6 Jun 2008 /  #18
I was thinking that in English, 'pole' is another word for a man's plonker and i must have just written it. I wasn't thinking about men's plonkers in particular. It was just a slip of the keyboard. I really don't think all Poles are plonkers.

Yeah right... What would Freud say about that keyboard slip? Just confess that you have a strange atraction with Polish mans genitalia and stop being in denial!
Puzzy 1 | 150  
6 Jun 2008 /  #19
Just confess that you have a strange atraction with Polish mans genitalia and stop being in denial!

- Right on, Matty.
:)
VaFunkoolo 6 | 654  
6 Jun 2008 /  #20
So what is your nationality and ethnicity?

One must not get wrapped up and absorbed by one's nationality and ethnicity. I believe your childhood makes the man, your blood and ethnic background just clouds the issue. We are influenced by our surrounding and by the time we are old enough to influence our surroundings, our surroundings have already influenced us. Two men can grow up in the same place. One turns out a fool, the other an enlightended man. Peace be with you and also with you. I appreciate it is not your fault you are a fool, it was your surroundings. One cannot blame the man and one can taketh the man out of his surroundings but one cannot taketh the surroundings out of the man. Why must we bolt the stable door when the horse has all ready done a runner? In salah allah and may the power of the woojoojoo take the ball in to the pocket when the game counts.
Puzzy 1 | 150  
6 Jun 2008 /  #21
One must not get wrapped up and absorbed by one's nationality and ethnicity

- You mean you won't tell your nationality and ethnicity? But you know I and others in this forum are Polish and you feel free to make all those stupid racist references to us, eh? What a $hitty creep you are. No honour, no courage.
VaFunkoolo 6 | 654  
6 Jun 2008 /  #22
My oh, so Polish friend. I have not made stupid racist remarks about you and your kin. You have imagined slight when there is none. Do not be so quick to take offence less you inforce negative stereotype. Concentrate on the beauty of Poland and leave your negative kin folk to wallow in their selfpity. Poland is a bright and beautiful country with a future to fight for and be proud of. It's strong and proud people must not let the negative amongst them prevent it from reaching its true potential.
hairball 20 | 313  
6 Jun 2008 /  #23
I really don't think all Poles are plonkers.

Some are...

for e.g

Screw him. Old moron.

osiol 55 | 3,922  
6 Jun 2008 /  #24
This Kaczynski said that he does not have to read the book to know that Walesa was an agent

I don't have to read this thread to know exactly what's in it.
Wahldo  
9 Jun 2008 /  #25
had the guts to start and organize the strikes in Gdansk.

Yes sir, that did take some guts.
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389  
11 Jun 2008 /  #26
The controversy as to whether Lech Wałęsa in thde 1970s was a secret collaborator (tajny współpracownik) code-named Bolek has flared anew

Lejbe Kohne AKA Lech Walesa may well have worked for a number of different 'elements'.

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