THEY WOULDN'T LISTEN TO WISE OLD PIŁSUDSKI!!!!

"As the House is aware, certain consultations are now proceeding with other Governments. In order to make perfectly clear the position of His Majesty's Government in the meantime before those consultations are concluded, I now have to inform the House that during that period, in the event of any action which clearly threatened Polish independence, and which the Polish Government accordingly considered it vital to resist with their national forces, His Majesty's Government would feel themselves bound at once to lend the Polish Government all support in their power. They have given the Polish Government an assurance to this effect. I may add that the French Government have authorized me to make it plain that they stand in the same position in this matter as do His Majesty's Government."

yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/wwii/bluebook/blbk17.htm

Shortly thereafter a formal agreement between Poland and Britain was signed which clearly stated "If Germany attacks Poland His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom will at once come to the help of Poland."

Anita Prazmowska, Britain, Poland and the Eastern Front, 1939 (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1987), p. 193.

Expectations of swift Allied action were also repeatedly reinforced by the British. For example, during Anglo-Polish General Staff talks held in Warsaw at the end of May, the Poles stressed the need for British aerial assaults on Germany should war break out. The British responded with assurances that the Royal Air Force would attack industrial, civilian, and military targets.[10] General Sir Edmund Ironside then repeated this promise during an official visit to Warsaw in July.

Prazmowska, Britain, Poland and the Eastern Front, pp. 94-95.

What transpired is by now well known. The RAF did not even attempt to bomb German military installations because, as the Air Staff concluded on September 20: "Since the immutable aim of the Allies is the ultimate defeat of Germany, without which the fate of Poland is permanently sealed, it would obviously be militarily unsound and to the disadvantage of all, including Poland, to undertake at any given moment operations ... unlikely to achieve effective results, merely for the sake of maintaining a gesture." The Chiefs of Staff agreed, informing 10 Downing Street that "nothing we can do in the air in the Western Theatre would have any effect of relieving pressure on Poland."[20] And so the RAF decided instead to drop propaganda leaflets.

Prazmowska, Britain, Poland and the Eastern Front, pp. 183-184.

The opportunity to fight a brief, localized war against Germany was therefore lost in September 1939. In hindsight, also lost were the opportunities to save millions of lives, to rid the world of Hitler, and to have prevented the creation of conditions that led to the Cold War. As General Ironside commented in 1945, after much of Europe was in ruins, "Militarily we should have gone all out against the German the minute he invaded Poland. ... We did not ... And so we missed the strategical advantage of the Germans being engaged in the East. We thought completely defensively and of ourselves."

Cienciala, Poland and the Western Powers, p. 249.

Are you suggesting that the Brits did exactly (or even remotely) as obliged? Seems like a betrayal to me. And of course, if we're going to revert to the topic of 'the Western Powers', where was France's "within fifteen days" invasion that could have saved both countries, except that it never came? Unless you're saying that technically the treaty was upheld because it was physically impossible for Britain to aid Poland with anything more effective than propaganda leaflets?

Tell me, General, what effect our leaflet raids have had?
- Churchill, in response to lamentation about the Polish Armed Force's effectiveness in fighting the Germans.

Nice of you to start with a flat out lie.


Please list all the actions which was within the power of Britain take but which it did not take. Or are you just lying?


Another flat out lie, you're on a roll here. The Agreement Between the United Kingdom and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics of July 12, 1941 makes no mention of Poland at all and has nothing in it which could in any way refer to Poland. Check for yourself [avalon.law.yale.edu/wwii/brsov41.asp] . The Twenty-Year Mutual Assistance Agreement Between the United Kingdom and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics of May 26, 1942 not only refers to the declaration made Aug. 14, 1941, by the President of the United States of America and the Prime Minister of Great Britain, to which the Government of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics then adhered, but clearly states in Article 5 "They will take into account the interests of the United Nations in these objects and they will act in accordance with the two principles of not seeking territorial aggrandizement for themselves and of non-interference in the internal affairs of other States." Do keep posting your lies, I'll happily expose them.


It's not betrayal when one looks at the facts instead of your lies. I do find it strange that you want to talk about my being filled with hatred and drugs when it is clearly you who has lost touch with reality. I'm just glad that you will never again live in Poland: we don't never people like you living here.

It was after 2 days, Dariusz, not 3. In relative terms, given the context, that could be interpreted as 'at once'. Look how long America had been preparing for Afghanistan, for years. Trust me, those plans were on the table in 1996/97, NOT 2001. They put on a good show though.

Anyway, WWII, the response was immediate, Dariusz. Final preparations needed to be put in place.

It very clearly did not state that at all. Check the text for yourself [avalon.law.yale.edu/wwii/blbk19.asp] . I must say that I expected better from Cambridge University Press.


Edmund Ironside was an army man and so knew very little about the capabilities of the RAF. Had anybody from the RAF been asked they would have replied that their bomber force was entirely unsuited to such a task. And then there's also the small matter of him being Governor of Gibraltar in July 1939....


That's a flat out lie: there were repeated sorties (with considerable losses) against Wilhemshaven and other German military targets in the Elbe.


How many lies can this woman tell?! By September 20: a) the RAF had already been shown that its planes were a) no match for the Luftwafe; b) Britain had already lost on aircraft carrier and would have lost a second were it not for faulty German torpedoes; c) Poland was done for (because the Red Army had started pouring in to Poland; and d) leaflet dropping missions had already started.

I always love it when Poles criticise the RAF for not doing enough, they get so pissed off when asked "Perhaps the RAF should have followed the example of the Polish navy and run away days before the first shots were fired?"


As is traditional when speaking to Poles about September 1939, I will now ask precisely where the land war against Germany should have been launched by the British. Perhaps an amphibious assault on Hamburg?

Let's face facts, Piłsudski didn't see the Germans as much of a threat either. The international community badly miscalculated, right up to the last.

Unless I'm missing something, yes, it did, just edited to place 'Poland' in the place of 'Contracting Power' and 'Germany' in the place of 'European Power'. Article I, of course.


Probably because there's a good bit of difference between 'run away' and 'left port'. The Polish Navy went on to be the most decorated of any participating, as we all know.


I don't know, I just posted the quote. I'm not exactly an expert on the times and neither one on WWII-era warfare. I just know that credible expert (at least on land-based warfare) Ironside stated that it was more than strategically advantagous in hindsight to attack Germany all-out at the agreed-upon time.

But, you are saying that there was nothing at all within Britain's power to do to aid Poland that they did not, correct?

And, if I may say so: Dariusz, your comments on Harry's prescribed medication were completely out of line. While that's the case, Harry, his daughter's hardly at fault...

I came upon this site accidently whilst looking for information on a Polish product. What started as a bit of a history lesson has soon descended into an ethnic clash with factual ? history against a different factual ? history. In hindsight we should have all accepted living in our own little cave and never gone wandering into territory beyond our own. But we did, doing so we met friends and made enemies. In fighting there is no saying who will be a hero and who will become an animal,.. unfair to animals,.. but the most unlikely people will allow the dark side to surface. My humble opimiom is that everyone of us is capable of unspeakable attrocities, no human or group (tribe)of humans is any different. It is hoped that as we progress through life that we learn to live with each other. Unfortunately, be it football supporter violence with normally placid people getting caught up in it or ethnic cleansing,.. it is all too apparrant that the civilised human is only barely covering darkerside of us. Your last remark about someones daughter should be referred to the police and nipped in the bud. Either discuss in a civilised manner or accept that your views cannot be aired without you being dragged down to the level of personal insults and inferred threats. In which case they have no place being aired in public.