Another WWII thread.

Hitler was fascist, Stalin was communist. Something was bound to give. Both knew that in 1939 when they signed the Molotov Ribbentrop non-agression treaty.


You seem to forget that the USSR occupied the other half of Poland at the same time.

Thankfully, it's all speculation anyway. Although I'm still convinced that the outcome of the war would have been completely different without Britain.

As you know, the USSR was heavily supported by the USA during the war. I very much doubt that the Americans would have done that without Britain being at war with the Germans. So there is a good chance that the Russians would have lost against the Nazis, don't you think?

Interesting speculation though. When we talk of Russians we actually mean the Soviet Red Army. The Red Army lost more Ukrainians and Belorussians than actual Russians in its ranks. The US Lend Lease equipment/supplies did help for sure at the later stages of the War, but a lot of it was unusable. And, it is also debatable how long Hitler could have occupied and kept control of an area the size of the USSR.

Yes, of course.


I agree. Although we would probably see a different picture if the Nazis would have refrained from slaughtering the locals.

That seems like rather a qualification for engaging in these pointless threads reading the above posts........

It's true ... I sometimes read them for fun ... and, as you may have noticed, I'm asking questions for fun ... no one is interested to answer ... I still don't know if the Royal Navy did make this U-turn in the Baltic in 1939 or did not ...

How surprising to see you lie! All people domiciled in Canada, whether Canadian citizens or not, pay identical taxes.Canada taxes individuals on the basis of their residence and not their citizenship.

canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-tax-advantages.html

Next lie please!


That was a fast next lie! I'm amazed that even you are so pathetic as to claim that Canadian citizenship holds no advantages at all. But let's play along here: if Canadian citizenship holds no advantages whatsoever, why did you take Canadian citizenship?


No, but taking an oath of allegiance to Canada and then denying that you are Canadian and claiming that you are Polish is pretty much the same as spitting on your host country. You've never even taken an oath of allegiance to Poland!


I very much like Poland, that's why I choose to live here. Seeing as you choose to not live in Poland, in fact you chose to abandon Poland, we can pretty much assume that you don't like Poland at all.


Oh look! Another lie! Sweetie, you are very clearly not able to do any such thing: if you were, you would have done so by now. You love to talk about how Britain betrayed Poland but when asked to provide details, you never do!


You bled? Or is that just another one of your lies? I'd be willing to bet very large sums of money that you were not even alive at the time of WWII, let alone that you were bleeding. And I'd bet more than just huge sums of money that I was not watching you. Have you even heard of a thing called truth?


There is indeed a higher chance that the Soviets would have lost if it was just them against the Nazis. However, there is a much much higher chance that the Soviets would have lost if it was just them against the Nazis plus the British Empire/Commonwealth (and perhaps France). Seeing as even now Brits have to listen to Poles whine about betrayal, one does sometimes wonder what would have happened if the alliances had worked out the way Hitler expected them too.


Not by people who know that his plan was never to control the entire USSR. His inspiration was the British rule of India, which explains why his favourite film was what it was.


No, the British naval vessels were heading ENE take up positions in the north sea as the Polish fleet came pass them heading WSW on their way to dock in Leith. Both maintained their courses.

Not quite right, Harry.


So all Canadians do not pay identical taxes. To further complicate matters, depending on where you live, the provinces then take their cuts:


cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/ndvdls/fq/txrts-eng.html

The lie which I was nailing is that Canadian citizens pay more tax than non-citizens. Yes of course there are different tax bands and yes of course there are varying local taxes (and local sales taxes in most provinces, some provinces even have taxes on taxes), but the very simple fact remains that Canada taxes individuals on the basis of their residence and not their citizenship.

So when Bzibzioh says "This citizenship comes with a hefty tax bill every year." she's just telling yet another of her pathetic lies.

I think you know the answer to this one, as you have claimed yourself, we all would be speaking German now, all except you that is. I think he had more sinister plans for your people. You wouldn't be able to spread your lies now would you?


Funny, your posts do not reflect that at all, yet another lie on your part. You do everything in your power to discredit Poland no matter how twisted the logic may be. Who needs enemies when we have friends like you. I suppose that you do what you do out of love for Poland.


Then they were heading in the wrong direction, the first casualty for the British at sea was on September 3rd, the sinking of the Athenia, that sailed from Glasgow to Canada via Liverpool putting your Navy on an opposite course of the ship that was attacked. Were you trying to flee from the Germans who were already attacking defenceless passenger ships or will you dismiss this as an navigation error? Besides, ENE you say?, that's not the way towards German ports, now is it? More like a heading toward a secret hiding place in Norwegian fiords.

Wow, it sounds like you were there! Do you have any old war pictures of you and your old pals? And what type of destroyer did you have under your command then? Class 1 or 2?

Wow, it sounds like you have no facts to post to back up your laughable claims and so have to resort to ad homs!

But then what to expect from a poster as you? You claim that I know nothing about military history and then when I post facts showing that it's you who is sadly lacking in knowledge, you can post only ad homs!

Just out of interest, here's a photo which claims to be off the Polish vessels executing the Peking Plan:

Than the two vessels behind must be British Navy executing brilliant U-Turn maneuver.

Looks like you have nothing to say against any of my facts and so have to resort to the old fall-back for some Poles: anti-semitism. You can call me a Jew all you want to, won't change the fact that I'm not one. But I suppose it is asking too much for you to get your head round the fact that not everybody who knows a bit about Poland and talks about both the good and the bad things is Jewish.


How tasteful of you to crow over British civilian deaths, really shows what a classy guy you are. Your comment about Germans already attacking defenceless passenger ships shows how little you know about WWII but then what can we expect from the Polish education system when it comes to history?


The Obrestad line actually. But do feel free to think that British sailors had an initial reaction identical to that of Polish sailors (i.e. "Run away!").

Same can be said about your knowledge of history. Facts, what facts? Your claim of the British sailing ENE? What's this picture supposed to prove that British sailed past Poles in opposite direction? I don't see British Navy there, do you? You proved shit, just making ridicules claims. This is not serious debate about history just some moronic twisted notion of yours. I can play the same game.

The fact is that elements of the British Second Flotilla were ordered to patrol on the Obrestad line off Norway on 24 August 1939. They were thus moving into position as the three Polish destroyers executed the Peking Plan and moved in the opposite direction.


I most certainly do not. Which is why I said ", here's a photo which claims to be off the Polish vessels executing the Peking Plan". Of course you can not argue with the facts I post and so instead you try to argue against things which I did not say. How pathetic of you.


Could you possibly repeat those claims? So far all I have done is state the simple facts: on 24 August 1939 British naval vessels were ordered to take up positions on the Obrestad line (i.e. sail ENE); on 29 August 1939 Polish naval vessels were ordered to make for the safety of a British port. Therefore elements of the Polish navy was sailing away from the fighting and elements of the British navy were at the same time sailing towards the fighting. Do feel free to call me a Jew or otherwise display your racist anti-semitic habits.

Yet still posting this photo to prove your earlier statement, and a little disclaimer on your part means nothing to the casual reader.


Now here's a man with fair knowledge of history. Not all of his posts are favourable to Poland, yet his assessments are fair, factual straight to the point and for the most part I do agree with him. Now my knowledge of history is shit compared to his. He's a real history buff and a strait shooter, but your knowledge is way below my. Something to think about.


So did I. However the interpretation of those facts are just ridicules on my part as well as yours. Give it a rest will you. I'm tiered of reading you BS. Since you pull the crap out of your a**, I reciprocate in the same fashion.

It doesn't need to prove anything. Neither the Peking Plan in August 1939 nor the movements of elements of the British Second Flotilla to the Obrestad line in August 1939 are disputed by anybody who has even a passing knowledge of history. You appear to know nothing but to shout very loudly about that fact.


What facts have you stated? That British vessels were trying to hide in Norway? That the British navy executed a U-turn behind the Polish navy? That I claimed the picture showed teh British sailing past Poles in opposite direction? That I'm a Jew? All of those are simply lies which you have told here.

I've made no interpretation of the facts: I've simply stated them. You clearly do not like the facts: you lie about the facts and you lie about the person posting them.

If you insist. I guess that's the difference between you and I. I admit that my interpretation is just plain false. You believe in and insist on yours fully acknowledging the fact that it was planed well in advanced and it had nothing to do with the act of cowardliness by stating


now here's an oxymoron for you.

"All truth lies simply in perspective..."
-Mucha

Sounds like a great quote, no? Not sure who (if anyone) said it so, I'll take credit for it at this point. :^)

BTW - I love this forum, but wow, some of the arguments...trolls vs suckers, suckers vs trolls... sheesh.

I am so gonna copy that one. I allways say:
Both sides may speak of truth! Just choose wich of em

Calm down, darling; you'd pop a vessel! I used term 'citizenship' as in "right to reside in Canada', not in passport holding context.


Wrong. Some people don't pay taxes at all and it's legal. Believe it or not but you don't know everything. Keep trying to expose my "lies" more carefully, darling.


Stay on topic, Harry: you said that I live in Canada for benefits only.


Except I didn't suggest that at all! Do you see dead people too?

Oh, so when you said "citizenship", you meant "residency". I can understand how you got the two things confused: one involves going to a ceremony, swearing an oath of allegiance and getting a nice new Canadian passport; the other involves filling in a few forms and keeping your Polish citizenship.


I’m fully aware that some people in Canada pay no taxes: some people in Poland pay no taxes either. But that still doesn’t make your lie about Canadian citizenship coming “with a hefty tax bill” the truth. Your lie is still a lie. Just as all of your other lies are still lies.


Wow! A new lie! Why do you feel the need to lie about what I say? It is so utterly pathetic. I said that you “claim all the benefits that go with [Canadian] citizenship”. At no time have I said that you live in Canada for benefits only. But of course you can’t argue with what I say, so instead you lie about what I say and then argue against what I didn’t say.


You said “This [Canadian] citizenship comes with a hefty tax bill every year.” If that were to be true, the opposite would also be true: no citizenship = no hefty tax bill. Hence citizens would pay more tax than non-citizens.


No, but I expect that you saw lots of them while you were bleeding during WWII.

The photo (originally from Sikorski Institute archives) actually shows Polish destroyers on route for Rosyth, Scotland.

I am no Polish Navy expert but here is a brief summary:

Following dicussions with British government in May 1939, an agreement was reached to bring the small Polish naval fleet to Great Britain and in late August 1939 three Polish destroyers Błyskawica, Burza and Grom left Polish naval port of Oksywie in Gydnia and by 1st September were at Rosyth in Scotland! A fourth destyroyer the Wicher should have joined the others at Rosyth but was sunk off the Hel Penninsula.

After the start of hostilites the destroyers in Scotland were joined by Polish submarines Wilk and a little later the Orzel which escaped German internment from port of Tallinin, Estonia. The subs Ryś, Sep, and Żbik sailed to Sweden where they were interned for the war. Almost all of Poland's merchant fleet, around 140,000 tons left the baltic as early as August 1939. 4 Polish minelayers were incorporated into the German Navy.

From 1940, the Polish navy was strengthened by the arrival of a number of British destroyers, and in late 1944 two light cruisers the Dragon and Conrad two of the largest shpis the Polish Navy ever possesed. The Polish Navy played an important role in the 'Battle of the Atlanic'. The importance of 'Battle of the Atlantic' to the war effort is unfortunately often overlooked and underestmated.

I recently met a Polish veteran who rather uniquely was a soldier with the Carpathian brigade during the Siege Tobruk, Libya and subsequently enlisted with Polish Navy in which he served for four years. He was decorated with the 'Tobruk' medal by the Australian government.

After British gave Hitler part of Czechoslovakia with the Munich treaty. Hitler gave opportunity to British to run he invade France so they got scared and run away, if it was not for this then WWII will still continue to this day or British would give up and Harry's first language would be German.

I do so love to hear Poles talking about the 1938 invasion of Czechoslovakia: did your grandfather take part in that invasion? Or was he involved in the 1968 invasion of Czechoslovakia instead?


Your knowledge of history really is hugely amusing! Hitler actually offered the British peace on several occasions. Each time the British turned him down. If they hadn't, WWII would have finished in 1943 and you wouldn't be speaking at all because the Polish race would have been exterminated by now.

That is true. Hitler never wanted to a war with Great Britain. He was totally surprised that Britain actually honoured it pledge to Poland and actually declare war on Germany.

Hitler greatly admired the British Empire, a small country that ruled an empire that spanned much of the globe. He admired the process by which little Britain controlled its huge empire by using 'locals' to do much of the administrative dirty work, a process Hitler was keen to emulate in the Nazi occupied territories. Hitler was keen that Britain should retain its empire and should share world power with Nazi Germany who would create and rule a Nazi German empire in the East. But Britain foolishly went to war against Germany to honour its pledge to Poland. Some might argue this was Great Britains biggest mistake of 20th Century, apart from allowing the Poll Tax protestors bring down Thatcher's government :-)

Indeed, his favourite film was about the British empire forces defeating untermenschen despite overwhelming odds being against them.


According to Zweites Buch (the follow up to Mein Kampf) a final struggle would take place between the United States and the combined forces of Greater Germany and the British Empire.

Yes and no, Hitler didnt want a war with GB mainly because of the two fronts, yes he admired it but if continental Europe would be conquered he'd invade UK without a blink, the world was two small for two European powers and the way Hitler dealt with Rommel shows exactly how much his admiration of a given subject was worth if said subject stood in his way and UK with its navy could prevent Germany from becoming a naval superpower.


Oddly enough he didnt, ceirtanly UPA and other small scale organisations in the East were such examples but mostly it was Germans runnish the show, even his generals remarked on his mishandling of local populations (especially in Russia) that might well cost him the war.


Thats absolutely impossible by any stretch, a fascist state revolving around war cannot and will not bear any competition and the channel was thin enough that any cold war instantly turn hot, history proves regardless of Hitlers claim war between two regional power always, always broke out.


Is it your opinion that it was foolish?:)

Hmm, Hitler's own writing says otherwise, so who shall we believe? Hitler himself or a bloke who has never even read a single one of Hitler's books?


Does it? How do you explain the cold war between the USA and the USSR (two nations which face each other across a narrow sea) never turning hot?