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Ryszkowska/Gryszkowska from old Polish Town from pre-1930 ("antowi zcizus")


Adalea  
19 Nov 2008 /  #1
Does anyone know if there was a town in Old Poland that sounds similar to "Antowi Zcizus"? I'm researching an ancestor, Xenia Ryszkowska Vel Gryszkowska, born in 1872. On her passenger record in Ellis Island, they put down that her birth town was "Antowi Zcizus", Poland and that her last place of residence was Nancy, Poland. She left Poland in 1930.

If anyone has a clue as to what this birth town was actually called (spelling) and the actual place or spelling that sounds like Nancy... the only Nancy I could find was Nancy, France. I know that many transcribers for the Ellis Island records misspelled names of people and places.

Any assistance would be extremely helpful. Thank you!

If anyone has a map as well that shows these towns, that would be extra beneficial. Thanks.

I'm thinking that this might be the birth place... but please give me your ideas. thanks.

Antonie, Czestochowa, Poland

This is what I've found for "Nancy, Poland" - french-at-a-touch.com/French_Regions/Lorraine/lorraine_town_informatio n.htm

but it seems as though at the time of Xenia's birth it would've been in possession of France. Still searching for a Nancy, Poland.
RJ_cdn - | 267  
19 Nov 2008 /  #2
There is no Nancy in Poland
OP Adalea  
19 Nov 2008 /  #3
Merged:Need information on Polish surname Ryszkowska - correct spelling

Currently in the United states my relatives spelled their surname Rizkovsky... other children went to war and the army mispelled their names Rizkowsky and they just never changed it. The only record I have of who came over from Russia/Poland was My great, great-grandmother Xenia who spelled her last name Ryszkowska Vel Gryszkowska on the Ellis Island Passenger Record when she came over in 1930.

Xenia's husband (Mark/Marek) was Ryszkowski... Xenia's maiden name (so i'm told) is Petrenka... although that is not confirmed with documentation.

Any information on this name? Not sure if this helps but Xenia was born in 1872 in "Antowi Zcizus" (which I believe to be Antonie, Czestochowa, Poland) and last place of residence was Nancy, Poland prior to 1930. Her husband was Mark/Marek Ryszkowski (or variant spelling) and son Dimitri, possibly son Paul/Pawel/Pavel, and possible daughter Anna.

Thank you.

There is no Nancy in Poland

do you know if there may be a variation of that name Nancy? something that may sound similar to Nancy? I'm sure that she didn't type it for the shipping company who were recording passenger information. They most likely spelled it how they heard it. Do you think it was actually Nancy, France that she was from?
krysia 23 | 3,058  
19 Nov 2008 /  #4
Maybe 'Danzig' German for "Gdańsk"

In 1863, Russia's wanted to try and destroy the Polish culture by declaring Russian the official language. Prussia would do the same in 1872, forcing Poles in the Prussian territory to use German as the basic language. The Poles struggle persisted and near the end of the century, they had successfully establish political parties in all three regions.

So that's why you have different spellings of the same name.
OP Adalea  
19 Nov 2008 /  #5
Interesting. Do you know if there is a place called Ryszkowska or Gryszkowska in Old Poland? So i'm told, most names in Poland usually came from villages/towns in Poland. On her passenger record for Ellis, they wrote down Ryszkowska Vel Gryszkowska... does this mean Ryszkowska (surname) OF Gryszkowska (Village/Town)?

Do you know the best way to find birth records or census reports in old Poland between 1871 - 1930?

Maybe 'Danzig' German for "Gdańsk"

Interesting.... thanks. how is Gdańsk pronounced in English?

Does anyone have an old map of Poland from around 1913?
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 12,969  
20 Nov 2008 /  #6
Does anyone have an old map of Poland from around 1913?

Sure:

Poland till around 1918
Krzysztof 2 | 973  
20 Nov 2008 /  #7
First remark: surnames ending in -ski, -cki, -dzki are declined in Polish, that's why you'll have 2 versions (for men ending -ski, -cki, -dzki; for women ending -ska, -cka, -dzka).

I just found a site, but I don't know if it's reliable, someone more concerned about genealogy might be more helpful (because it's not my cup of tea)

Surname Gryszkowski - only 8 men + 6 women (Gryszkowska), all in Ełk region (NE Poland)

Surname Ryszkowski - 580 men + 610 women (Ryszkowska), in various regions of Poland (predominantly East, but almost 12% in Warsaw, which has about 5-6% of overall Polish population)

There are also 311 persons with the name Gryczkowski (mostly in NE Poland) and, judging by the geographical distribution, it looks like Gryszkowski is probably a misspelled version of Gryczkowski, not Ryszkowski (due to the historical and political circumstances mentioned by krysia in her post, I may add that the Germans during WWII also added to the mess, by writing incorrectly Polish names/surnames in their documents, many people had lost their Polish IDs during WWII and the German IDs were the only ones they had after the war, so if there were any mistakes they were transferred to Polish documents after WWII and some people never bothered to go to the court in order to bring back the correct spelling), but it apparently exists so it's hard to say who made the mistake in spelling and when (before 1918 - during partitions of Poland - or on Ellis Island in the 30's).

does this mean Ryszkowska (surname) OF Gryszkowska (Village/Town)?

The town/village name would rather be Ryszków / Gryszków (I haven't heard such names and haven't found any in Wikipedia, but it's not definitive, not every single of 35,000 Polish towns and villages is in Wiki), in the version Gryczkowski, it may come from "gryczka" (a plant species)
Wroclaw 44 | 5,384  
20 Nov 2008 /  #8
There is/was a Nancy in the Czech Republic.

Your post isn't clear.

Did you find Ryszkowska or Gryszkowska.

Because I can only find Ryszkowska.

If you heard the name Nancy... then the 'c' might be 'ts'

There is something wrong with the place names. Please scan and post the relevant part of the document. We might see something that you don't.
kman67 2 | 79  
20 Nov 2008 /  #9
how is Gdańsk pronounced in English?

It's pronounced the same as it reads in English. Gdansk.
OP Adalea  
20 Nov 2008 /  #10
the passenger record was typed with a type writer so i'm not mispelling anything:

birth place: Antowi Zcizus, Poland

last residence: Nancy, Poland

They mispelled her name on the passenger record as "Kesenja Ryszkowska vel Gryszkowska" her actual name is Xenia...so i'm sure they mispelled the place names. That is why i'm asking if anyone has any idea as to what or where these places might have been actually called/spelled.

What is interesting about your find is that my grandfather mentioned (and it's all that he can remember) that his father had a 1 acre plot of farmland on the eastern border (border of Poland and Russia). Now, i'm not sure where that would be as his father didn't come over "legally"... he was a stow away and jumped ship and swam to shore (so the story goes). It must be true because I have yet to find a record of him on any passenger records. However, by looking on a map it seems that the border between poland and russia was at the north-eastern most part of poland... because the eastern section was bordering Ukraine & Lithuania I believe.
Adalea - | 1  
20 Nov 2008 /  #11
Here is the file to look at.
Krzysztof 2 | 973  
21 Nov 2008 /  #12
Only if you are looking at today's maps :)
Between world wars (1918-1939) the borders of Poland were much more towards East, but the Soviet Union took them (about 40% of the pre-war Poland) after "liberating" us from Germans in 1945 (those decisions about borders were made in cooperation with the Allies and they gave us some lands in the West, previously ruled by the Germans, like Wrocław/Breslau and Szczecin/Stettin).

If your father was talking about the times before they had left Poland (around 1930) he probably meant Russian border in the East (Ukraine as a independent country has been existing only since 1991, for many centuries its lands were ruled by Poland, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, then Russia and finally Soviet Union).

Here's a map of Poland in 1918-1939:


Wroclaw 44 | 5,384  
22 Nov 2008 /  #13
I've just written a load of info for you, but of course it's just disappeared and I'm not going to do it again.

Try: Ksenja or Ksenia, not Kesenja.

Xenia also goes with Oksana.

It's possible that Ksenja/ia is the original spelling.

I also think you should be looking for place of origin as far north and east as Lithuania.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446  
28 Nov 2008 /  #14
Localities that could have generated the toponmyic nickname Ryszkowski inlcude Ryszki, Ryszkowa Wola and possibly also Ryszewko.
There doesn't appear to be any locality within today's borders from which Gryszkowski/Gryczkowski could have been derived.

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