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Salary Expectation for HCL Senior JAVA Developer with 4 years experience in Poland



DominicB - | 2,135    
16 Jun 2015  #31

That doesn't make sense.

Of course it does. The primary reason people seek employment halfway around the world in the first place is to earn money, and they're even willing to sacrifice comfort on the short term to ensure themselves a better life for their present or future families and for themselves in their golden years. It's called prudent planning.

there is so much more to life.

Tell that to someone who is struggling or dissatisfied financially and I guarantee you they will punch you in your smug little face, or at least be sorely tempted to. When you have no cash, you'd be surprised how much little there is to life. There ain't nothin' romantic about poverty, and it's a cloud that don't got no silver lining. Unless you're the Buddha or Saint Francis.


Gosc123456    
16 Jun 2015  #32

@Jon; for me it is obvious that although money is important, the foreigner's ability to fit in Poland should be considered. I personallly believe that when from a completely different culture, it is close to impossible to adjust to Poland and that's the reason why I discourage those from places such as India, Pakistan, Nepal, Nigeria and consorts to come to Poland - they would feel like fish out of water and completely isolated and unhappy.

I would not go to such countries as above because completely different from my European culture. There is no way I could adjust to Indian or Nigerian life. Poland is not too easy but as a white European, I am well accepted (but I would never move to Poland B or C ;))
DominicB - | 2,135    
16 Jun 2015  #33

he foreigner's ability to fit in Poland should be considered.

Undeniably. However, like I said before, people seeking work abroad are willing to sacrifice short-term comfort for long-term gain. For example, many of my colleagues went to work in hospitals in Saudi Arabia. They described it as going to jail for five years, but coming out with enough to retire on.

That's not the case with Poland, though. If anything, those from India and Nigeria they see it as a foot in the door to the richer countries of EU, and the very last thing on their minds is frittering away the rest of their days in Poland.
jon357 70 | 12,776    
16 Jun 2015  #34

The primary reason people seek employment halfway around the world in the first place is to earn money,

That just doesn't wash. Plenty of people go abroad for much more than just a stop on some sort of career path.

Tell that to someone who is struggling or dissatisfied financially and I guarantee you they will punch you in your smug little face

I've been both rich and poor, thank you very much and yes, there is much more to life than accumulating money.

Now stop trolling posters who want to come to Poland.
DominicB - | 2,135    
16 Jun 2015  #35

Plenty of people go abroad for much more than just a stop on some sort of career path.

Get real. The people that come here asking about jobs opportunities and wages are most certainly interested in their career path above all else. They certainly didn't come here to hear any silly romantic "stop and smell the roses" or "the best things in life are free" bull$hit.

Now stop trolling posters who want to come to Poland.

I'll do no such thing. I'll continue to give the best advice I can, and, in the case of those who want to come to Poland to study and work, that usually means pointing out that there are plenty of much better opportunities elsewhere, so it is generally pointless to come to Poland. And that if they think that Poland is their best or only chance, than certainly they have failed to do adequate research.

For people who want to come on vacation or retire, my answer might be different.
jon357 70 | 12,776    
16 Jun 2015  #36

The people that come here asking about jobs opportunities and wages are most certainly interested

Interested usually in getting a job - any job - because they live in places with even higher unemployment than Poland.

it is generally pointless to come to Poland

Tosh, as most of the people on this forum (who have come to Poland from elsewhere) can tell you. They are generally happy with their decision.
DominicB - | 2,135    
16 Jun 2015  #37

Interested usually in getting a job - any job - because they live in places with even higher unemployment than Poland.

... and because they failed to do their research into the abundant, better opportunities that exist in richer countries, or failed to learn enough about Poland to know that is substantially poorer than Germany or Sweden. In any case, the primary reason for most of these people coming to Poland is ignorance.

They are generally happy with their decision.

As am I. But then, I didn't have to earn money in Poland, I already have more than enough for retirement, and I don't have hungry mouths to feed. I wouldn't be too happy at all if I were from a poor country, came to Poland to work, and was able to save only a small fraction of what my buddy who went to Germany, the UK, Norway or the States could. I'd feel fcuking stupid for not having done my research better. And I would die of embarrassment when I had to explain to my kid that he can't go to Harvey Mudd or Rose Hullman because Daddy just can't afford it.
jon357 70 | 12,776    
16 Jun 2015  #38

Harvey Mudd or Rose Hullman

Who? Is that someone from

a poor country

?
Remember that the pursuit of money is the root of all evil.

I'd feel fcuking stupid for not having done my research better

Or might just find that they're very happy in Poland, as tens of thousands of people who've settled here very much are.

abundant, better opportunities that exist in richer countries

There's abundant and better ice in Antarctica - not everyone has the chance of an offer to go there and put it in their drink. If you don't have a job offer from Germany, the UK, Sweden etc but want to live abroad, Poland is a very good opportunity.
DominicB - | 2,135    
16 Jun 2015  #40

If you don't have a job offer from Germany, the UK, Sweden etc but want to live abroad, Poland is a very good opportunity.

Exactly your biggest mistake. If you have the qualifications to find a (by Polish standards) well-paid job in Poland where unemployment is high and wages are low, you almost certainly have what it takes to find a much better paying job in a richer country, where jobs are more abundant and wages are much higher. For qualified people, Poland $ucks as an opportunity, except for the cream of the crop that get paid Western wages while working in Poland. For unqualified people, Poland $ucks even worse.

And if someone like the OP doesn't have a job offer from Germany, the UK or Sweden, it's because they didn't apply or do their research correctly.

Bottom line: if someone thinks that Poland is their best or only option as far as work or study is concerned, they they almost certainly fcuked up with their research, analysis or planning, and they will be very dissatisfied with the results.

Oh, and agree with Gosc and Wulkan that foreigners of dark complexion would probably feel more comfortable in the richer countries of the West. Even without taking race into account, the quality of life is much higher there.
jon357 70 | 12,776    
16 Jun 2015  #41

For qualified people, Poland sucks as an opportunity, except for the cream of the crop that get paid Western wages while working in Poland.

Nope. Many people (including those who post here about job offers they've received in Poland) have doubtless tried elsewhere and do not have offers for all these 'abundant' jobs you claim they would all be given. Poland certainly doesn't 'suck' and many people originally from abroad have very happy lives here.
DominicB - | 2,135    
16 Jun 2015  #42

have doubtless tried elsewhere

No, they haven't. That's abundantly clear from how they answer questions here on this forum. Most of the Indians, at least, seem to be passively responding to recruiting emails and haven't done any active research or applying at all.
jon357 70 | 12,776    
16 Jun 2015  #43

That seems very unlikely, and worth mentioning that a lot of the people you try to put off come from countries in or near Europe with high unemployment.

As I say, Poland is a very pleasant country in which to live and work, no matter how you try to pretend it isn't. And accumulating money or following a US-style career path is not the be all or end all in life. Happiness comes first.

These 'abundant' jobs of yours (if they're a. as 'abundant' or b. as good, as you pretend, are doubtless not exactly short of applicants.
DominicB - | 2,135    
16 Jun 2015  #44

Whatever. When you grow up and have to worry about feeding a family or you have retirement staring you in the face, you will undoubtedly think a lot different.
jon357 70 | 12,776    
16 Jun 2015  #45

grow up and have to worry about feeding a family or you have retirement staring you in the face

Done the first two and now happily facing the third. And have never for a minute regretted coming to live and work in Poland. I think a lot of the posters here (most with families and careers here) would say the same.
DominicB - | 2,135    
16 Jun 2015  #46

They're more than welcome to give what they believe is the best advice to the OP, as are you and I. Sorry, but it doesn't look like you and I are going to agree on this. We'll just have to assume that the other is giving the best advice they can, and leave it at that. No point in bickering.
jon357 70 | 12,776    
16 Jun 2015  #47

I do think you mean well. I'd also say that Poland is a great place to come and live.
DominicB - | 2,135    
16 Jun 2015  #48

I do think you mean well.

You did accuse me of trolling, though. In any case, I think you mean well, too.
Nojas 4 | 102    
16 Jun 2015  #49

From what I know about working conditions in India I would say working in Poland for that kind of salary is kind of a no brainer. And since unless you have a relocation offer directly from a company moving to Sweden or Norway is a no go (that door's closed shut right of the bat) I fail to see the issue...?

Yes, you earn more if you land a job elsewhere. If. And the average Joe in the US doesn't really seem to have a field day right now either, and neither does a big chunk of the population in Europe.

Valid points in that Poland does have low wages and lower "quality of life" than many other European countries. But comparing with Sweden and Norway is not valid, since you will never get a job there.

Scandinavia - Not unless you are given a relocation offer directly. Probably the hardest region in Europe/World for a foreigner to get a qualified job

Germany - Sceptical, unless you speak German I doubt it would be easy landing a job there
France - Speak French, maybe. If not, no go. And if any country in Europe would have strong labor laws about hiring a non-EU national before a national citizen, my bet would be on France

Spain - No jobs
Italy - See above
Portugal - See above

I guess your best bet is US/UK. Regarding availability to get a job in those countries I have no idea. Maybe Netherlands would work, don't know much about situation there either.

My two cents.
LukeAinitze    
23 Jun 2015  #50

I'm from Argentina, and I took the offer. I wasn't looking for it, just came to me. The salary is better than in Argentina (11k zl), but not that much better than my current job. I took the job because I had plans to travel around Europe, and this is a very good way to do that, from my opinion, Poland is like right in the middle. The job position (senior software engineer) is a higher rank than my current job, so I see it as a opportunity to grow professionally. I'm 28 and single, and consider myself still young enough to be looking for new places to go and see, I find Poland to be a very interesting country with vast culture.

My great grand parents were from Poland so I'm very curious to know their story from the place they lived in. That's another point to Poland. Plus, I have a very minimal way of life, don't spend much, I don't care about luxuries, as long I can afford my basic needs and make enough to travel. Maybe I change my mind later, but the moment feels right to make this move.

So far I'm happy with my choice, I'll tell you in about a month when I get to Poland. If I'm not happy with it, I leave with a higher rank in my CV and a lot of experiences and adventures, I think it is not that bad at all. But sure, I don't have to think in anyone else than me, so I understand other point of views.

Thank you all for your help!
Kiroslav    
9 Aug 2015  #51

Merged: Poland IT Salaries confusion (Java developer)

Hi,

I'm originally from Ukraine and moved to Krakow few month ago as Senior Java Developer for 12k zl/month brutto. Back in Ukraine I had 3000 USD/month netto salary. And decision to move was mainly done because of hard political situation. Whenever I try to google senior java devs salaries I find only 9000 - 10000 zl/month on average, is it really true? In Ukraine I was able to save 2k USD a month on average - 200$ for rent, 200$ for car, 600$ - for food and entertainment. Right now I could barely save 600-700 USD (in zloty equivalent) and I'm actually limiting myself even more than in Ukraine.

So my question is 12k zloty/month is really high salary for senior java dev? Is it already above the average in Krakow? Can I get significantly more - 16k for example? Lots of recruiters are offering me new job positions in Krakow and all of them are asking about the salary expectations. For me, salary growth of 1-2k zloty is not sufficient to change a job, and I simply afraid of saying something too high like 15-16k.
delphiandomine 87 | 15,816    
9 Aug 2015  #52

It's normal. For some reason, Ukraine has higher salaries in IT than Poland.

But what's so wrong with working in Kyiv or L'viv?
InPolska 11 | 1,825    
9 Aug 2015  #53

@Delph: in Ukraine: political problems, corruption, higher cost of living and above all NOT in the EU ;).
Kiroslav    
9 Aug 2015  #54

@Delph: Nothing really bad beside one thing - you have to go to army (war in Donbass), if you do not go to army - you go to jail. The main question is 15-16k gross is still normal salary for senior java dev? Wouldn't HR and recruiters look at me strange if I say that I'm expecting 15-16k pln/month salary gross?
frd 7 | 1,399    
9 Aug 2015  #55

As far as I know senior java dev salaries vary a lot between different companies you can get between 11k and 18k. I wouldn't say it's an unreasonable amount - but it depends if the company you've found is the one from the beginning of the scale or not.
WarsawMBA    
9 Aug 2015  #56

Kiroslav,
If you will find a contract position - 16-18 might be realistic. On permanent (umowa o prace) - I would highly doubt someone will pay that much on this position. Especially outside Warsaw. At least I've never heard of that kind of salaries for Java dev on permanent.

Update: sorry didn't realize you are talking about 15-16k. I know couple of guys who were offered 15k on permanent, but that was in Warsaw.
Niko    
9 Aug 2015  #57

@ Kiroslav:
To a recruiter you can say whatever you want, that's his job to let you know if your expectations aren't realistic. I actually encourage to have a honest talk with the recruiter re your salary expectations otherwise he might come with an offer that you'll reject, and you both are loosing your time. HR is another thing though, there's more risk and strategy involved :)

As you're a Java developer, you're probably surrounded with other Java developers, who know yet more Java developers... They're your best source for what a Java developer can expect in terms of salary.
satyadonka    
2 Dec 2015  #58

Merged: What is the average salary for IT senior developer while relocating to Krakow from India

I am planning to relocate to Zabierzów,Krakow, Poland from India. I want to know what will can be the maximum salary that i can ask for. I have 12yrs of experience as a senior java applications developer. I want to relocate with my family (Spouse , Kid(6yrs old)). How about the schools around Zabierzów. What is the cheapest place to live in and the fastest commute to work place? Can someone please give me a clear picture of all the expenses and how much can i save per month?
Gaurang - | 4    
31 Jul 2016  #59

Merged: is 12000 Gross good salary in Poland?

Hi Guys,

I have got the offer from Poznan city, for 12000 gross salary. I will be moving with my wife (no kids yet) and so need to understand what would be monthly expenses.

I have gone through various sites and this what I have calculated. I think approximately it would be between 5000 to 5500..
Do you think I would be spending more than this?
Do you think I should consider any other thing than I have mentioned here?

Would like to know your inputs on this.

rent 2000
bills 840
groceries 280
Food and drinks 280
Travel 200
misc 350
Ritesh - | 10    
16 Jul 2017  #60

Merged:

Gross Salary for Senior Software Developer having 8 Years Experience



Hi, I am from India. I have been offered senior software developer role with luxsoft ( 8 Years Exp of Niece Technology). What gross salary per month i should ask for.

I am married and have one baby. Earlier i was working In Hong Kong & Singapore and there i was getting an equivalent amount of 20000 PLN per month + Incentive + Medical Insurance + Employer contribution of PF. That country was having 7-15 % tax rate and housing was costly.

How much do you think i should ask for. Kindly help urgently.




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