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Questions about moving from UK to Poland - work, taxes, child benefit


McFly 1 | 14
15 Jan 2015 #1
Hi,

Myself (British) and my Polish partner and children are planning to move to Poland early next year if everything goes to plan could anybody advise about the following.

I will still be working full time for around 3 months in the UK after they move to Poland then 3 days most weeks in the UK and weekends in Poland, I will be in the UK more than the 183 days so i assume my tax will all be paid to the UK? I will have no Polish income. I work in engineering mostly in the power generation sector.

The plan is for me to move full time to Poland although i assume until i can speak a good level of Polish my possible job options would be very limited?

English teaching seems what most people initially do, how much does this pay on average in a town with little or no competion from fellow British etc?

We will have no major housing costs as we will be staying with her family to start with and will be converting empty property on their land.

Will i be able to apply for child benefit and any child tax credits while still working in the UK?

With regards to health provsion can i apply via a E106 to get them covered in Poland? I assume i would carry on using the EHIC card until i moved over full time.

Obviously my partner is Polish but has been away for 12 years so she is not up to speed on any new laws and children have dual nationality in the UK but would be Polish in Poland.

Thanks
Harry
15 Jan 2015 #2
I will still be working full time for around 3 months in the UK after they move to Poland then 3 days most weeks in the UK and weekends in Poland, I will be in the UK more than the 183 days so i assume my tax will all be paid to the UK?

Quite possibly not. For a start, if you're only in the UK for three days per week, you'll be in Poland for four times fifty-two days, which is 208. For another, the 183-day rule is not actually the applicable rule in Poland. 183 days or more (or fewer) in the country is only part of the test Poland applies, the main factor is where you 'centre of life' is (I'd be guessing that for you it's going to be Poland).

The plan is for me to move full time to Poland although i assume until i can speak a good level of Polish my possible job options would be very limited?

To work in the sector here you'll need to meet the minimum qualification standards (which you might well not meet) and have your UK qualifications recognised as equivalent to Polish qualifications (which the relevant bodies may very well not want to do). To give you one example, in Poland there are 12 years of school, then five years of post school education (all five of which can be done part-time, as can the last three years of school) and you have a Magister; in the UK you do 12 years of school and then at least five years of post school education (two years of college and three (at least) years at university, none of which can be done part-time) and you have a Bachelor's degree. But Poland insists that a Magister is a higher level than a Bachelor's degree.

English teaching seems what most people initially do, how much does this pay on average in a town with little or no competion from fellow British etc?

Depends how rich or poor the town is. If you have no qualifications or experience, probably a couple of thousand zloty a month, four thousand at the most.

Will i be able to apply for child benefit and any child tax credits while still working in the UK?

Yes. That at least is some good news for you.

I assume i would carry on using the EHIC card until i moved over full time.

That is only for emergency treatment as a tourist. And some Polish hospitals very simply reject it anyway.

We will have no major housing costs as we will be staying with her family to start with and will be converting empty property on their land.

That conversion sounds like it's going to cost a fair bit. And that's assuming it is just converted. A bloke I know in Warsaw was talked by his wife into paying for summer house for them to be built in the field outside her parents' house in the small-ish town she's from (a four-hour drive from Warsaw). It went from an 80-metre summer-only house to a 350-metre year-round house which she now lives in all-year round.

Sorry to possibly speak out of turn, but have you thought about what you're doing here? You really want to move to a town where nobody speaks your language while you don't speak Polish? Rural life can be isolated enough, especially if you don't have family and/or friends around you, but factor in not speaking the language or having a job and it's certainly not something I'd want to do.
OP McFly 1 | 14
15 Jan 2015 #3
Thanks for your reply and comments.

Yes i need to seek more advice on tax issues but it will not be 4 days x 52 in Poland, sometimes i will stay longer in the UK so probably around 200 odd days in the UK.

I am concerned about the work issue, my industry is very specialised so degrees etc mean nothing in that industry as they don't teach it in any university in the UK or anywhere else that i know off. Probably under 100 poles do what we do and the main company in Poland who does this type of work is not Polish. I have no doubt there will also be former employees of that company also doing it but i am now in a management position so don't want to go back on the tools as you basically travel all over the world and that's a single mans game.

I understand though Poland has many good graduates chasing jobs and without a good grasp of the language would make it hard if not impossible to get something that pays well. I was also a software developer for years mainly logistic and accounts systems but don't really want to go back to that either as it was a bit soul destroying.

Town looks like there is money around.

The EHIC card has always been accepted in the town and nearby towns, myself and my family have used them maybe between 5 to 10 times over the last 5 or so years and have had no problems with one visit to the hospital, various GP's and at the chemist getting reduced rates on medicine etc.

Any building work will be either carried out or supervised by her brothers who work in construction so costs will be kept down.

I do have friends in the town and the local area as we have been traveling over 3 to 4 times a year for years so i know her circle of friends and partners and most speak English, Conversations are getting better over time with her parents with my weak Polish and their little English they have picked up and a lot of people i have met in the town on my travels usually to the local pubs have spoken to me in English some better than others admittedly. Still feels like i am the first British person they have spoken to sometimes, had a pint and spoke to one older guy with his friends outside a pub in the summer who hadn't spoke English for 40 years he was still pretty good in a way :)
Monitor 14 | 1,820
16 Jan 2015 #4
Harry is right that Polish tax office may decide, that since your wife lives here and children, then here is your living center, so you should pay taxes here. But maybe you can simply not inform anybody about you living in Poland. Don't register here, don't open Polish bank account. Then nobody will even think to chase you for taxes, especially that you pay them in UK.

You shouldn't move too far away from an airport, otherwise it will be very tiring to travel regularly.

The plan is for me to move full time to Poland although i assume until i can speak a good level of Polish my possible job options would be very limited?

IMHO If you don't have a good job offer from Poland and a lot of savings from abroad, then it has no economic sense to move to Poland.

We will have no major housing costs as we will be staying with her family to start with and will be converting empty property on their land.

At least don't stay in the same apartment with them. You now what you're risking by living with your in-laws?

With regards to health provsion can i apply via a E106 to get them covered in Poland? I assume i would carry on using the EHIC card until i moved over full time.

I would be surprised if your wife unregistered from UK and registered as resident of Poland could be covered by your British health insurance. Moreover EHIC is for travel only and covers only sudden problems. I think you won't be able to do regular checkup with it. Polish insurance for unemployed is 350zł/month currently:

nfz.gov.pl/new/index.php?katnr=2&dzialnr=1&artnr=1443

People searching for job are insured for free by job center.
OP McFly 1 | 14
16 Jan 2015 #5
It seems that a E109 would cover them in Poland while i work in the UK and pay NI in the UK.

She could also use a E106 for up to 2 years to cover herself as i could if i moved full time to Poland due to previous NI contributions although i would then have to get Polish insurance after the E106 ran out.

The main issue is my weak Polish, i would likely carry on working in the UK 3 days most weeks but it might even be possible in the future to work from Poland for the UK company or a rival company.

What am i risking from in the in-laws?

Being buried in the woods by the father in-law?
Alcohol poisoning?
Plastic Polish cheese for the rest of my days? (I did actually find mature cheddar in a Biedronka sklep when i was over at Christmas)

anthing else? :)
Monitor 14 | 1,820
16 Jan 2015 #6
anthing else? :)

That people leaving together for longer time tend to argue much more than those who meet from time to time. You wouldn't like to destroy your relationship with in-laws.
OP McFly 1 | 14
16 Jan 2015 #7
I am not worried about that beacuse for the first few months i will be in the UK most of the time and afterwards when i cut my hours hopefully we will be able to at least get in our place.

I think as long as i keep bringing a good supply of tubs of gravy to female members of the family then i will be ok, maybe i should open a gravy shop in Poland.
Harry
16 Jan 2015 #8
Town looks like there is money around.

That doesn't necessarily mean that there is money around. You see a lot of comparatively very expensive cars parked outside fairly grotty flats in Polish cities. It also doesn't mean that you'd do well teaching English there; the days of being able to turn up and say "I'm a native speaker." and immediately have more work than one can handle are well and truly over. If one is qualified and experienced, one can still have a fairly comfortable life teaching but you lack the qualifications and experience.

Any building work will be either carried out or supervised by her brothers who work in construction so costs will be kept down.

OK, so the labour costs will be kept down, but costs can still spiral as plans get bigger and bigger. You might be very happy parking your car outside the house but then be convinced that at least a car-port would be good so you don't need to move the snow off the car every morning when it snows. But then while you're away somebody says 'If we're putting in a hard standing for a car port, we might as well put down concrete.' which is followed by 'If we're putting down concrete, we might as well put up breeze-block walls for a garage.' which then becomes 'If we're putting up breeze-block walls for a garage, we might as well make it a double garage.' and that is followed by 'If we're putting up a double garage, we might as well insulate it.' and then 'If we're putting up an insulated garage, we might as well make the walls a bit higher so there's a usable room in the under the roof.' and then ''If we're putting a usable room in the under the roof, we might as well make add a couple of dorma windows.' I know somebody this happened to. His ex-wife's new husband very much likes the double garage this bloke paid for.

her circle of friends and partners

Her circle.

What am i risking from in the in-laws?

You are going to argue with your wife, all couples argue: her parents will (almost) always take her side. You are going to have problems with her parents, all people who live together do; your wife is almost certain to take her parents' side. Your mother-in-law is very likely to have rather fixed ideas about how children should be raised; if you disagree, you will be wrong (see previous comments about your wife's reaction).

I think as long as i keep bringing a good supply of tubs of gravy to female members of the family then i will be ok

Are you using gravy in the literal or metaphoric meaning there? Polish families don't always have a lot of time for people who aren't contributing financially.
OP McFly 1 | 14
16 Jan 2015 #9
Any good news about moving to Poland?

I am not really bothered about teaching as i said above i am looking to carry on working in the UK and travelling back I am used to that but i used to be away for a month or more which was a lot worse. There is a chance i could even work remote from Poland.

When i said her friends i was meaning from when i first met her these people are now my friends and i have my own i have met over the years one really good one is from Germany who lives in the town now. My close friends in the UK are only a couple of hours away and could easily travel over whenever they wanted most of them haven't got kids or want them so jumping on a plane for a weekend is pretty easy for them.

I don't go through life worrying about if my wife will run off with another bloke not how i live, have you had bad luck with the Polish females?

No i mean gravy you put on your chips they are always asking for it, i am not going to just turn up and sit on my hands there is always something available if you get out and look. I will just carry on with the UK job and study hard on my Polish, I know when that is at a decent level many more options for work will be available i do have contacts with companies in Poland but it's the language problem at the moment.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,849
16 Jan 2015 #10
No i mean gravy you put on your chips they are always asking for it

Gravy with chips just wtf?
TBH you would need to contribute a lot more that that in order to be not slagged off.
And you better learn a better level of Polish quick so you can hear what the old dear is saying about you.
Harry
16 Jan 2015 #11
Any good news about moving to Poland?

For a start it can be a much better place to live than the UK is.
If I didn't think it was a better country to live in than the UK, I wouldn't have been living in Poland for the last 20 years.

There is a chance i could even work remote from Poland.

You did ask how much you would earn as a teacher. I'd suggest that idea goes not so much 'on the back-burner' as 'completely off the stove'.

My close friends in the UK are only a couple of hours away and could easily travel over whenever they wanted most of them haven't got kids or want them so jumping on a plane for a weekend is pretty easy for them.

Not quite the same as 'Mate, you fancy a pint? Work / The Mrs / The kids / The [insert name of Polish red-tape factory here] / Life is driving me up the wall!' is it?

I don't go through life worrying about if my wife will run off with another bloke not how i live, have you had bad luck with the Polish females?

I didn't say she would. Mine never has, but then I've never been married. I've certainly not had bad luck with Polish women, the complete opposite really.

No i mean gravy you put on your chips they are always asking for it

Isn't there an M&S in your neck of the woods? If not, allegro can supply gravy.
OP McFly 1 | 14
16 Jan 2015 #12
The gravy thing was just a bit of a joke, they like the UK stuff for making sauces when they are in a rush.

No m&s in that town.

The teaching question was out of curiosity as it's something the wife might do, 3000 to 4000 and I would be happy for her although with her perfect english I am sure she will be OK. There is a few private schools in the area that the polish use so will look in to that next time I am over in a few months. We are debt free and with no rent etc on our own place so just the bills I am sure we will have a good base compared to some who move.

Thanks again for all the comments
InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
16 Jan 2015 #13
Just to add, about jumping on a plane: Unless you book 3-8 weeks ahead, that jumping on a plane thing will cost your friends a good few quid Something like 200 quid return minimum excluding baggage and much more if less than a week before departure or peak time. So I hope you're all very well off because 20 quid fares have to be booked well in advance and even then they're not so easy to find.

I hope all goes well for you, but don't expect it to be easy in Poland.
Monitor 14 | 1,820
16 Jan 2015 #14
The teaching question was out of curiosity as it's something the wife might do, 3000 to 4000 and I would be happy for her although with her perfect english I am sure she will be OK.

And if she isn't native English speaker she will have harder to get well payed job as a teacher. Simply school employing natives can ask for more money.
bod - | 2
16 Jan 2015 #15
Plastic Polish cheese for the rest of my days?

If there's a Lidl near you, they have half-decent cheese from time to time.
Harry
16 Jan 2015 #16
The teaching question was out of curiosity as it's something the wife might do, 3000 to 4000 and I would be happy for her although with her perfect english I am sure she will be OK.

Unless she has a teaching qualification, just speaking perfect English isn't enough to get her a job in a school (sad but true). She might get work in a language school, if there is one; if there isn't one, she could teach privately (quite a bit more money and quite a lot less hassle, once you have found the students anyway) or even set up a language school.

Simply school employing natives can ask for more money.

Also sad but true.
Kamaz
16 Jan 2015 #17
Some points here, I,ve only been here 5 years solid not a day out of Poland in that 5 years.....but still a rank amateur, my situation is a bit different in that I don't need to work and just have money sent from UK when we need a bit. Lets get the negativity out of the way first......a builder here will first and foremost try to screw you over.....businesses here do not try to retain customers or have them come back through good work, they actively expect you to find someone else next time. Every Pole I have talked to and every UK person married to a Pole has been screwed over by some relative = brother/cousin, who is a *Builder* (round here they are all builders in some shape or fashion) Expect her brothers to try to screw you over, watch the prices of paint and other materials, they will automatically add on their fuel for fetching the item and their time @ $ per hour......then they will charge you a rate for their time as a builder/adviser...... In Poland, family and mates (if there is such a thing here) never, repeat never!! do anything for free! (or that could just be the culture of 'this part of Poland') Just do not forget, in their eyes - no matter how long they have known you...you are a 'rich' Englishman with money to burn. The 3000zl a month for teaching sounds about right......but do not take on too much......if you want relax time and you are a typical good person, you will have to jump through hoops for your customers due to all sorts of strange reasons that wouldn't wash in the UK and have the times of lessons keep altering, lots of juggling involved...remember if you provide a service where you go to them, you will pick up customers who 'would like extra lessons for their children - but cannot afford the hassle and travelling time to drive their children to the schools then wait in the car while the lesson commences etc etc.....In a small town or village that is a big advantage. I hope you are not coming here because I don't want to have to compete with anyone for the De-Luxe stuff and the cheddar in the local Lidl. At the moment I have hardly any competition!!! one of the other advantages of small town life.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,849
16 Jan 2015 #18
every UK person married to a Pole has been screwed over by some relative

yeh that is kind of true
Harry
16 Jan 2015 #19
Every Pole I have talked to and every UK person married to a Pole has been screwed over by some relative = brother/cousin, who is a *Builder*

Another sad but true statement.

Expect her brothers to try to screw you over, watch the prices of paint and other materials, they will automatically add on their fuel for fetching the item and their time @ $ per hour......then they will charge you a rate for their time as a builder/adviser...... In Poland, family and mates (if there is such a thing here) never, repeat never!! do anything for free!

However, the fact that they 'helped' with the construction work will mean that they are entitled to either stay in that house as and when they see fit or, if they live locally, have their friends stay there when needed.

Just do not forget, in their eyes - no matter how long they have known you...you are a 'rich' Englishman with money to burn.

And if you don't want to spend it, you're an unforgivably tight-fisted sod.
JollyRomek 7 | 481
16 Jan 2015 #20
3000 to 4000 and I would be happy for her

That's quite ambitious. I know a German teacher who earns 1600 after tax, full time!
Harry
16 Jan 2015 #21
I know a German teacher who earns 1600 after tax, full time!

I know language teachers in Warsaw who make that much (admittedly at state schools).
JollyRomek 7 | 481
16 Jan 2015 #22
She is working for a state school. I guess it would be different at private schools but the gap between 1600 and 4000 would be too big in my opinion. Plus, as a Pole teaching English, I guess you would really have to know your grammar. As a native speaker, it sometimes is enough to just be a native speaker as they like them for the conversational classes.
OP McFly 1 | 14
16 Jan 2015 #23
Yes she does know the grammar probably better than most of the locals here. She first came to the UK in 2000 and was granted a work visa on her second visit in 2002 most people don't realise she is Polish.

As for cheese you can get extra mature in biedronka shops ! Found some at Christmas.

Thanks for the comments lots to think about but got a year to do so.
Kamaz
17 Jan 2015 #24
Be careful with the cheese some of it is nice flavoursome cheddar but a bit crumbly for a good cheese sarnie.....OK for Pizza topping or cheese on toast though. Harry brought up a little know 'law'. If a brother/uncle/cousin etc actually helped with the house then they have legal rights over a part of it (extent to be decided by law if it comes down to the wire) they can claim the right to stay with you or for you to provide accommodation for a friend of theirs or another relative part of their extended family. The only way out of this is if you employ them on a written contract. (or all builders would have the right to use a property they built) So if you are paying them cash-in-hand.....you can't prove a thing so they can claim the right. Also I doubt this applies to you, but may apply as a warning to others reading this, if your wife had children by another person before she met you, then they will be legally entitled to a share of the house....not a problem while they are small, but you could as a 'mature' widowed chap find a young woman/man and a big hairy biker (no offence to hairy bikers some of which are friends of mine) turn up on your doorstep one day claiming their share.......which is a proportion of the child's mother's share.....an expert could tell you how much. Your peaceful retirement could turn into a nightmare!!!
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,849
20 Jan 2015 #25
lots to think about but got a year to do so.

maybe your wife should sign up for the four week CELTA English Teaching course in that time?
OP McFly 1 | 14
20 Jan 2015 #26
Yes we have looked at that course they also do the TEFL course here I think it's 120 hours + 20 hours classroom.

Since word has got out that we are thinking of moving it looks like I may have a job offer coming my way from a German company based nearby and a Polish guy who teaches English in the town we would be moving to has lots of private clients he would be willing to pass on to us as he can't cope with the demand himself.

Still plenty of other options to explore but i suppose if the offer of a job from the company pays decent we might have to decide to move over a bit earlier.

These offers are all because of contacts I have in Poland over the years and I can't thank them enough for all their help since they have found out we are serious about moving over great people.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,849
20 Jan 2015 #27
the teaching cert would be reallly useful for her, although I must warn you the course is really intense and might be hard if she is also looking after children.
Harry
20 Jan 2015 #28
Very intense!

Private students are a good way to supplement income but it isn't a good idea to rely on income from them.
Roger5 1 | 1,455
20 Jan 2015 #29
the course is really intense

Try DELTA!

CELTA can be done over a longer period than the usual one month.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,849
20 Jan 2015 #30
oh yes I had a friend with parental obligations who did it part time.


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