English qualifications to start Teaching English In Poland. Is degree of some sort needed?

its uses, its uses!
yes i used to be a target language purist, but with a monolingual class some use of L1 is justified.
not for explaining grammar though.

There are a couple of native speaker teaching roles in Wroc at the moment, advertised on Gumtree -

190 clicks for one, 130 clicks for the other (posted in August)

Having checked the links from Mullerice's post - very few posts are on there, and what there is stipulates CELTA etc,

In Wroclaw,

I'm going to do the CELTA course at International House in Wroclaw from the 1st-26th of October. It costs £875 which I suppose is a bit of an outlay. You need to fill out an application form, complete a pre-course task and pass an interview.

I'm coming to Wroclaw on Friday as I've already paid rent for September so I figured that it would be better to get myself settled and do some partying first.

I'm under no illusions that it's going to be tough so I'm not expecting to complete CELTA and immediately find a job. Rather, I plan to use the time between the end of October and Christmas to gain experience...as a volunteer if necessary. This is why I'm bringing some savings. In my favour, I have extended family and friends in Wroclaw (grandfather was Polish) so that could be helpful too!

Like any forum, there are cynics but keep the head up and explore every avenue. In the meantime, you should keep working at your Polish as it should make life a bit easier. All the best in finding a good job and if you want to meet for a beer sometime, give me a shout.

nobody's been 'cynical' just realistic and offering advice/suggestions.

I was told that one was £700, it's obviously gone up.

Yes, you should do well, when the well-established schools are hiring they do of course want the CELTA, so you've got a far better chance than without it. I don't think you need be discouraged by what you've read in this thread. It's just people like myself who don't want to spend £850 unless we know we'd like the job. It's too much for me to speculate. Someone I know of spent £1K on a CELTA course in the UK to work in another country that he'd visited as a tourist for a month in the past (not here) - he came home pretty quickly as he didn't enjoy teaching there at all, and unless he ever changes his mind he wasted the £1K plus the flights etc. But, other people think teaching is great. I'm not sure I will,

And yes, welcome, p.m. me if you want to meet for a mini tour or a beer! (You're not a member here yet so no one can email you.)

I paid 1,000 GBP in 1992!

Somewhere in the UK I assume. Crikey! Oh 'eck! A school here in Wroc told me to get a CELTA first, they told me it was 700 quid at the place mentioned above. Anyway, a grand in 1992 would be like two grand now, perhaps more.

In Wroclaw
These links may be useful but I'm not a language teacher so it's a bit of a guess.
onlinetefl.com/EDIcertTEFL
cambridgeesol.org/exams/celta-online/index.htmls
They may allow payment by installments,and the first one caters for students abroad.
Possibly you could work as a native English speaker somewhere and advertise private lessons locally at a lower rate as a native speaker only.
This would give you some income and allow you to find out if you enjoy teaching.
The grammar and subject knowledge comes with time and personal study but this is often the case for all teachers, we rarely know the entire syllabus for a subject when we first start teaching.

It's worth investing in relevant qualifications a) for your pupils and b) for your own esteem and career progress.
There is the added advantage that you can travel to other countries too.
Teaching is the best job in the world if you enjoy it but probably the worst if you don't but it's worth finding out!!!!

Good Luck

Thank you Kaz, however IIRC TEFL is not the same qualification as CELTA. It would appear CELTA is the qualification most sought after.

I have no intention of paying any money for a TEFL or CELTA course until such a time as I am sure I can teach effectively, it is too much money to ambitiously speculate. It's unlikely I'll find a school that will take me sans CELTA, but if I do find one and like the role of teaching English, I'll then do some sums and if it looks do-able then I will enroll at a CELTA course.

For anyone browsing, Barnet/Southgate (N London/Herts) college has a CELTA for £850: barnetsouthgate.ac.uk/courses/search/static

I don't know the rules, but at some colleges you can get the course for free if low income/unemployed.
For example, this college is £1600 usually or nil/zero if at the Concessionary rate, it seems: ocvc.ac.uk/Study_with_us/Subject_areas/Teaching_training/Ox ford/Part_Time/Certificate_in_English_Language_Teaching_To_Adults_CELT A_OXCTE50DB1213012012.aspx

Or under half price here for Concessions: learninharrow.org.uk/site/custom_scripts/php/course-details.php?CID=4662

I can't understand what the problem is here.
You know that to get a decent job you need to a (fairly significant) outlay of cash, but the risk is you won't know it you like it or not. Wouldn't it then be best to mitigate the risk by doing research / observations / voluntary work in this field before the outlay of cash to get an idea if you like it or not?

If I want to buy a car, I would do my research - professional reviews, user reviews, test drives etc etc, that way I'd have a much better idea of if I'd like it or not.

If of course you haven't given yourself the time, then you should do everything possible to talk to people or organise observations in the time remaining. This couldn't have been a decision you made in 5 seconds over breakfast.

No I don't know that. That sounds like sales spiel for an IT training college, and teaching is something a person has to experience with a good many individuals to gauge whether it works for them or not. It's not like going to an open day at BT to see if you've a head for heights and enjoy putting wires on telegraph poles.

Volunteering to teach (there are such brief roles, see the links above) is not the same as dealing with a student who has paid hard cash for results.

btw I'm not sure BT do those open days, it was just an example that came to mind ;o)

In my 6 years or so experience of Polish students, if you're there to teach (paid or otherwise) and you do a rubbish job, Polish students won't try to rationalise this in the "(s)he's doing this for free, so I won't complain" manner, but in the "I want to learn English and this teacher is shit" manner. They'll give you a hard time either way.

With the exception of one year in Krakow, the rest of the time I've worked in Warsaw for language schools until I went my own way. In both locations, due to the apparent abundance of native speaker/teachers and Polish teachers (who as well as 5 years Philology they are still shelling out thousands to do the CELTA) the application process went something like this:

DOS "so you'd like to work here?"
Teacher "yes, I have an abundance of experience, a degree and want to do my bit to help others"
DOS "do you have a CELTA?"
teacher "no, but..."
DOS "do you have TESOL?"
teacher "no, but..."
DOS "Good-bye"

When teachers have worked for me, if they don't have a CELTA they don't get the job (unless they have QTS in their own country) and I completely understand that.

If a language school hires someone without the appropriate teaching qualifications what they are saying is "I don't care about my clients as I'll charge them full-whack anyway - they'll be happy to have a native anyhow, and I'll take advantage of the native by paying him/her peanuts."

You have to ask yourself, do you really want to work for a school with this attitude in a big city? In a small town, OK fine, but a big city?

You're completely correct, and I can honestly say I am the last person to take someone's wage and not deliver. If I can't deliver, I don't need to be told to go. I am equally fair to myself: if I do not see the way ahead clearly, I will not risk a large sum of my own cash by assuming a golden future as an English teacher. Am very far from assured I can do it - I don't take it lightly and if and when I see I have the knack of explaining my native language to Poles who speak some English already, I'll reach for Mr Capital One and give him a damn good thrashing. Until then, he can sleep in my wallet, safe in the knowledge that, unlike Mervyn, I know I can't print money and it has to be accounted for, and invested, wisely.

There are a lot of people who have invested a lot of time in money in "teaching" qualifications and they get pissy when native speakers with no training start teaching. It's an ego thing and a territory thing. If you speak well and are sociable you can teach privately without playing the school games. Don't be discouraged by those trying to carve out their domain and keep you out.

If people don't like what you are giving they will stop coming. You aren't forcing anyone to give you money.

From a purely selfish viewpoint, untrained teachers are actually very useful for trained teachers. When I used to teach I'd often have students who had previously had a clueless teacher and that meant they were happy to pay my rates because of the vast difference in product quality.

People need to be shown (through the instruction of language learning strategies/intricate vocabulary learning strategies) how to learn a language. The CELTA does not do that, neither does the DELTA. If taught properly, the theoretical knowledge gained from a Masters in ELT can be put into practice, and can develop the teacher and the student.

If you can at least attempt to prove you are a linguist and have good intentions, you get private students. Not with CELTA.

I am not saying everyone who is a native speaker can teach effectively. However, many people excel in many fields with no formal training. It is natural for people who have invested a lot to be defensive about someone who didn't spend years studying encroaching or potentially encroaching on their territory. People get weird about money. It is normal human ego and I see it all the time. I stopped reading the various ESL forums as they are mostly just people complaining and trying to discredit anyone who isn't a PhD linguist. Not everyone who is self taught is a hack or a waste of money. I have formally trained linguist friends to whom I can refer students who want/need that. Those friends refer to me as well when they feel someone would be a good fit, and aren't the least bit annoyed or insulted by my teaching. I also have friends with no training beyond being a native speaker and they do well also. There is a market for both...and the market makes it's own decisions. People will stop coming to you if they aren't happy with the results. My students remark about how calming I am, and that they don't feel intimidated or spoken down to as the have with other teachers. One told me this week she feels like she can learn better with me as she is relaxed, whereas with the stuffy teacher she had in a formal school she felt tense all the time. People have different preferences.

I figure there is at least one pedant who will point out some grammatical errors in my post and use this as damning evidence I shouldn't me allowed near the developing minds of students. I have run into this in other forums where a simple typo or lack of attention posting from a phone starts a firestorm of accusations and nonsense. I make mistakes like everyone and cannot edit a post as a guest...in case anyone was inclined to make a thing out of it.

In my experience and as Harry has pointed out (still owe you a beer by the way from Dave's esl cafe yonks ago) trained teachers don't get 'pissy' and it's certainly not a territory thing as when students start working with untrained teachers they can spot it straight away and understandably don't want to part with their hard earned when they feel they are getting taught by a mug (sorry for the generalisation btw, but in my experience this turns out to be true). We get 'pissy' when an untrained teacher tries to tell us how to teach/tell us how easy it is which is understandable - if a newbie teacher comes from the UK/America/wherever and says to me (as they have done):

"this teaching is great, I turn up, chat about stuff for an hour and they pay me 60zł" then on the face of what they've said I would get annoyed because the teacher is clearly not a teacher and some poor Polish sod is wasting his/her money.

Other lines which will get a rise are:
"We don't do grammar, they know it all anyhow"
"There's no need to prep, I just talk about their day" etc etc

The issue here is the typical Polish student.
The typical Polish student is:
hard-working
can see through bullshit / spot a mug
not fantastically rich
ambitious

If the student thinks that you fit the bill as a teacher (s)he sticks with you as Polish students tend to be loyal (and through word of mouth find you other students). If they don't, they don't hang around.

There are qualified teachers who are rubbish an unqualified teachers who are good but the issue that remains for people who come to Poland without a CELTA to teach is that reality suggests:

1) no decent school will allow you to teach their students.
2) hoping to rely on private students is totally misguided as it takes time/contacts in place to give you that network of privates
This is why the message should always be "get your qualifications before you come to Poland - more than likely CELTA - and you won't have problems". Poland has an abundance of qualified native speakers in all major towns as well as better and better Polish natives who, even after 5 years of Philology are paying money to get a CELTA.

What should that last fact highlight to a newbie? A native Pole who spent 5 years learning English to a level of detail of which they never would want to or wish to STILL has to get a CELTA to be ahead of the game and get a job.


Herein lies the problem to our attitude to non-qual teachers. You seem to have a sensible head on your shoulders and I've no reason to doubt you are an effective teacher, which you probably are. But the phraseology of what you said above is dangerously misleading. A qualified teacher would never say "if you speak well and are sociable you can teach privately without school games" because, unintentionally, you've demeaned all the training and education we've had in a single sentence. What that sentence means to me (as someone with years of experience) and other teachers is "chat, be a nice guy for an hour, earn some cash". You don't mean that, but that's how it comes across to us and everyone else. If you said "If you can understand your student's needs and interact with them and use your experience to help them develop their language skills" which is probably what you meant it suddenly sounds a lot better.

(I haven't got, nor ever hope to get a DELTA btw. God knows how a DELTA qualified teacher would phrase the above.)

I'm not trying to bust your balls, I'm just trying to make you see it from our side.

As regards students, there are thousands - I can't think of anyone who marks out his/her plot.

Just pointing out the below error for the sake of Polish students of English, in case they copy that phone error you made in their own English.


Should be its.

:o)

Edited to add anecdote:
Just remembered, bumped into an American chap today in a shop, he told me he teaches English in his spare time here but makes the time to fit the students' needs. Said to me "Never known it so quiet, getting far less students than before, had to drop my fee."

I didn't get a chance to ask him if he's qualified, well I didn't feel it was beeswax to ask really. I didn't ask his fee either, But anyway, that's what he said, and we were in Lidl so belts may be getting tightened.

Like I said, typos ;)

The summer is never "busy". Every year people act like it's the end of the market and the wheel keeps going around and around. He sounds like a native Pole with the hopeless negativity. You always see the 30 and 40zl/hr ads (in Warsaw) from some native speaker passing through or trying to undercut the market. They will also travel from Lomianki to Kabaty or further for it. And there will always be people who won't pay more, but are willing to pay those people or do tandems with them.

I know several people who have made their life here for years and years teaching privately with no qualifications. Some turned it into a registered business and some didn't.

I don't believe for a second the indignation is really about "what's best for the student". It is job regardless of qualifications and nobody is doing it out of the goodness of their heart. Smug comments like Harry made don't do anyone any good. Some people take any attempt to belittle and crap on others so they can feel superior. Egos are a funny thing. Expat egos are even more fragile and bitter than most.

Not really. Most Polish teachers of English work at state (rarely private) schools in the morning and run private tuition later on. I have been reading about CELTA since I joined the forum but I still don`t know what it really is.

A person here can't test the water without registering as a business and paying the monthly 350 (?) approx in zus anyway, can they. If a lang school took me I'd hope they take me as an employee so I don't have to register as a business. Of course, you don't want to hear this but they have asked me for either a BEd or CELTA!! I have neither and so they say do widzenia! (These are the schools I know of, I haven't been to every backstreet etc.)


A course aimed at showing tutors how to teach English to adults. Certificate of Education in Language Teaching to Adults,
I am not saying it's good - but seems the main schools here insist on it or a B.Ed or similar. (The DELTA is Diploma in,,,)

Of course if you want to teach at a school you have to meet their requirements. But not everyone teaches for schools.

Don't know where you are Pawian, in Warsaw I'd say 80% of the teachers in private schools are Polish (logically they have to be - well over 300 schools in Warsaw and all have a few teachers to many and there simply aren't that many natives) and of that total a significant number have done/were doing their CELTA. All of my Polish colleagues had done the CELTA, few had even done the DELTA. The Poles that work for the BC all have CELTA (obviously), 5 years Phil., most have DELTA and some are CELTA/CELTYL trainers.

In Warsaw, the hourly pay from a school for a Polish native ranges from 25zł -50zł p/h. Why would any of those teachers want to work for a state school when they can earn as much as a state school teacher in half the time?


You're absolutely right, tbh, I couldn't give a monkeys as regards someone else's student unless I knew them. It's for the teachers who think they know what their talking about when they're clearly speaking bollocks.


In some cases yes, in some cases it's a vocation. Most of the time it's to pay the mortgage but that doesn't mean that they don't care and at least try to make it worth the student's while.

Oops!

See, we've all got to stop using our phones to post here ;o)

more worried about the fact it's Friday and I'm on this forum.....

I get 70 PLN at certain uni in Krakow. But that`s only a few classes per week. Nearly half of my monthly earnings come from a state school. When I counted all benefits I (still) get during the year, with 13th salary and other bonuses, it amounts to 40 PLN per lesson. Not bad. And don`t forget social security etc.

Well we all know who we should go to for impeccable proofreading don't we? *coughINWROCLAWcough* ;)

Its you're choice who you ask to check you're work, but if their is an option I think its clear he has proven hisself.

There are some errors in my own posts, but am hoping no one noticed :0)

Oh, I see. Thanks.

But...

why adults only?

In 1990s I ran extensive courses for adults. Today I tutor two adult females.
Sorry, three.