Why Poland employers are afraid of hiring any foreign nationals?

What? I think that a lot when I read your posts....what?

Fair enough. Typ. Should have read:

You do understand the difference between teaching a language and the ability to speak it?

Yes I do...but your idiot above said Polish English teachers are better than Native English teachers. That is so stupid it MUST be a joke from him. All things being equal a native will be better. Only a Pole would think he would naturally be better at teaching English than anyone else.

If both teachers have exactly the same qualifications, including the native ability to speak the language of the students than the native speaker of English will be definitely a better choice. Otherwise all depends on the circumstances and the subject is rather academic with just about equal number of arguments for both sides.

Sadly, a lot of EFL teachers become teachers pretty much by accident. A trip to Poland, they like it there (yes, some do) and decide to stay for a couple of years. Pretty much the only option they have is teaching English.

You will see plenty of posts right here on this forum from native speakers of English who ask very rudimentary questions about teaching English. I would hire them for conversational groups, but definitely not for the beginners where solid understanding of grammatical concepts is required. There is definitely more to teaching a language than just being able to speak it on a native level.

And the Polish English teachers I routinely saw sucked too...so we can agree most English teachers suck. But I will not let you get away with this nonsense about Poles being better...because its just not true.

How about we check whether it can be true.

My teachers of English were all Poles. Some British and American students use text books written by a couple of them. Some of the names are Wiktor Jassem and Henryk Kaluza.

I'm pretty sure you saw "Apocalypse now". It's based on an adaptation of a short story by Joseph Conrad. Have you heard the name? His full last name in the original was Jozef Konrad Korzeniowski - one of the giants of the literature in the English language in which he wrote. English was his third language (French being his second). Oh, Conrad's native language was Polish.

So... some Poles can in fact be better than some native speakers.

HAHAHAHAHAH...you really did it. The old reference to some Pole who did something as proof of your superiority. That is such a cliched Polish thing to do you have me laughing so hard my side hurts. Only way it could have been better is if it was about Chopin!!!! Oh man...I swear you guys are one of the easiest alive to stereotype because you just line right up. Hahah.....oh man.

You have an issue with the concept of superiority. Any Nazi roots?

Anyway, I did not prove my superiority. I proved that is possible for a Pole to be better (in English) than some, or most speakers, and I offered solid proof that it is in fact true.

Of course the question remains what "better" means. In the Case of Conrad, his pronunciation was realy crappy. Jassem's was impeccable, and these were opinions I heard form some Brits.

You seem to think ...as evidenced by several of your posts...that one or two examples of something indicates a trend or proof. You are boring me...I am also sleepy...thus you have exhausted your chance to prove you are not an idiot. You failed I am sad to say so you will be going on the ignore list. But knowing your vanity it won't stop you from posting.

Yes, an example or two are a proof that something is possible and that is a simple principle of (among others) formal logic. If something happened then it is proven that it is possible that it may happen.

But then, you are an American so I expect this to take you a very long time to digest, as it is ever so slightly above grade 4 level of literacy.

beezebud, try to think outside the square, think about what I say and then make a rational comment without insults, the point being most Polish students prefer a local Pole that some person teaching with a accent which nobody can understand, lets face it you will never really pick up a language unless your using it full time away from your environs ie living in GB/Ireland etc. Sorry but thats life.

PS Most foreign teachers in Poland are just drop outs who couldn't find work in there own country.

Bolek, you don't have the stats to make such a comment. Have you met most foreign teachers here? Don't you think they come for a new experience? That's been what I've gleaned from newbies.

Sorry but most Polish teachers just don't have the roundedness so the best systems will be where they work in harmony with native speakers.

hey is this the same guy who just responded with:


Have you met most Polish teachers here?

gentlemen, we're basing our opinions off our experiences, as I eluded to with Harry the minor, it's pointless trying to assess whose experiences are more valid.

Yeah, let's agree that mixed systems are the best. The JET system in Japan was highly effective based on blending the combined experiences and knowledge of locals with native speakers.

It's as I always say, some Polish teachers are good and some aren't. Too many people discuss this and that til the cows come home but you can really summarise so many things ever so succinctly.

International dialogue is the prime example of pure and utter BS!!

How nice of them..had they been saving their rotten eggs for such an occasion?


I can only laugh at this statement.


Pots and kettles... :D

In the absence of a bullet proof argument that's all you can do.


Exactly.

It would be like a non Spanish person saying they can teach Spanish better than a Spanish person...Hence the reason I laughed, it was also an arrogant statement to say a non native is better than a native...Only a Pole would make such a statement.

You lot have spent a few years in the EU now you think you can teach us how to suck eggs? When Poland can stand on its own feet, you can have your say, until then...speak when spoken to!

We can turn the question on its head and look at how foreigners would be afraid of working for Polish employers. I couldn't imagine working at an administrative centre here or other corporations. It would take a long time to adjust to the way of doing things and getting used to attitudes. It's hard to become an insider.

Why Polish employers are afraid of hiring any foreign nationals?

Polish jobs for Polish workers :) Gordon Brown ™

Bravo! You made an intellectual effort! It would be also similar to a non Albanian, non Swede etc. I'm proud of you. You are capable of drawing parallels.


I never said that. I said it can happen and I offered well known illustrations that it could. If you're a Brit then I'm sure you have been traught about the marvelous literature in the English language authored by a Pole.

There are plenty more native Poles who who speak better English than some of the so called native speakers of English. I know one personally. He came to Canada with his parents when he was 8 months old. Barely speaks Polish though.


Me? I never lived in EU.

Try imagine Russians back to soviet era employing Amerians to teach English.
It is a whole packege so they have tried to avoid native speakers unless there were commies

Nobody would say that native spekers are bad teachers but they bring a whole package if you know what I mean

Conrad was very heavily edited, and many many passages in his works are suspiciously similar to his wife Jessie's prose style. The ideas, themes and plots were certainly his but behind most great men there is often a great (and uncredited) woman.

And one of the greatest regrets of his life was that his ability with the Polish language declined over the years.


God alone knows what kind of native-speaker Teachers you've met. Most here are professional.


Some of them indeed do. Some Polish 'teachers' of English barely speak the language themselves and pass on the most appalling mistakes to their students who take it as gospel.


And his English wife.


Then he's a native speaker of English rather than Polish.

Try to edit, even heavily, some prose produced by East Enders and see what kind of impact on English literature they would have.


I didn't realize she had the same experience as he did, the travels and that she was the one responsible for "a distinctly non-English tragic sensibility into English literature". So now we know the English speak better Polish than Poles :)


He is a native Pole nevertheless.

If you are trying to make a point I am afraid you have failed
Read 'Linguistic Influence of Polish on Joseph Conrad's slyle' by Mary Morzinski. East Eureopean Monographs, volume III. 1994 Columbia University Press, New York.

Hardly.

Check (or "check out") Joseph Conrad - A Psychoanalytic Biography: By Bernard C. Meyer, Princeton University Press.


Dickens came from pretty near the East End.


Read the post beforecommenting. Churchill onece said that he'd one day like to meet a Pole who doesn't jump to conclusions. Jessie's prose style. Josef's themes and plots.

My post was clear enough. Perhaps you just had the wrong English teacher.


A bizarre comment. Though doubtless some do.


We were talking, as I remember, about native speakers.

We would first have to resolve the issue of whether psychoanalysis is science or "the most stupendous intellectual confidence trick of the twentieth century", as suggested by this author.


So we're closer to agreeing that, as much as some East Enders are capable of speaking proper English, so are some Poles.

just read some of his book you pacan
like
'notes on life and letters' by Joseph Conrad, 1921, London & Toronto, J.M. Dent & Sons LTD.
or
the best biography of him

'Joseph Conrad' a study by Richard Curle, London, Kegan Paul, Trench, Trubner & CO. LTD.Broadway House, 1914.

all of them are lying peacefully in my library...and many more

Conrad no doubt spoke beautiful English. Iris Murdoch no doubt spoke better English. But she wouldn't be so arrogant as to allow an unedited book to be printed. I speak excellent Polish, but when I write something (sadly not in the league of Conrad or Murdoch) I make damn sure it's edited for both content and style.

Some would say that 'East End English' is"proper English".

Conrad's wife Jessie (an author herself - albeit a cookery book and memoirs) can be heard across his prose. Unless you're suggesting he helped with her books?


Have a look at a good feminist critique - Conradiana is increasingly focusing on this aspect.

What on earth does this have to do with Polish employers? Many Poles acknowledge that Conrad was as dry as the worst hangover mouth.

Back to the thread.

Actually he didn't. His spoken English was terrible.


How would you suggest it would be possible for the English native speakers to edit Conrad's works so that they were capable of bringing "a distinctly non-English tragic sensibility into English literature"? I also rarely see much about Conrad's widfe influence of other authors, which Conrad's is indisputable.

Now, watch this clip and try to tell my that the sweeping generalization of "native speakers of English speak better English" is true.

Do you think the above would be more qualified to teach English than the people below: