Dutch speaker (native) experienced in Finance: job opportunities in Poland

What he might have meant is that he's hoping to improve his earning status at the outset, gradually moving up the pay scale, without imagining to earn what he might earn in the same position in Bruxelles. I think that's what he must mean.

Not knowing present-day Poland that well, probably only the capital city would afford a similar earning to cost-of-living ratio with a Western European city of comparable GDP.

Warsaw has indeed started to become competitive over the past decade, even though it can't compete as yet with Berlin, Amsterdam, London or even Stockholm. At this time, Warsaw might have higher earning numbers than Rome, Athens or Madrid.

My motivation is 50% seeking a new experience in a country i really like and 50% an attempt to do a good deal carreer-wise/financially wise on mid to long term.

Of course i would start to learn Polish if i would move there and have the prospect of staying for a couple of years.

Comparing the labour market in Belgium and the amount of vacancies In Poland, i must say that there are much more job opportunities in Poland, especially with big companies such as IBM, HP, etc. Multinational companies seem to hire much less in Belgium.

All being said, if i start applying for 5 to 10 jobs in Poland, and the best offer i can get is a net wage of about 3000 zloty i will, of course, refuse. I just cannot cut on my salary that much and give up a fixed contract under very good conditions to go work for not even halve of the wage with (maybe, who knows) worse conditions. Put different, my opportunity cost is huge, and the benefit in terms of personal goals is not compensating the wage effect.

Hence, I will start with applying and see what i can get. Thumbs up then.

Honestly, I have never heard of any Belgian moving to Poland to make an improvement on their career.
In this case you should be sent as an expat by a Belgian company, or be able to join the Mon-Fri crowd.

yeah

What do you mean by that?

These are people who live in Belgium for example, but work on weekdays in Poland, and go home back to Belgium on Friday evening. And Monday morning (or Sunday evening) back to Poland.

sobieski:
be able to join the Mon-Fri crowd.

MatteoCarati:
What do you mean by that?[/quote]

That option is generally for higher level managers and consultants on short-term contracts with foreign companies doing business in Poland. Sometimes also for instructors or product demonstrators. It's rarely for more than a few weeks, a few months tops, although it could be longer if you are visting branches in several cities. You would be paid at the foreign rate, and the company would provide accommodation, flights and perhaps a per diem. Unfortunately, the jobs for which this is the practice are all beyond your level.

Have to agree with the others that expecting to make decent money in Poland with your qualifications and experience is unrealistic. The best you're looking at is 2500 to 3000 PLN a month after taxes, and unless you get into upper level management or administration, or become a highly qualified specialist or consultant, you're going to top out at 4000 to 5000 PLN, and that only after at least five years. To make more than that, you have to be highly qualified, very experienced and in demand.. You have to be an ambitious self-starter and go getter, and have a great network of useful connections. You also have to be lucky.

So how can you explain me that a Spanish friend of me just signed a contract with Capgemini as a starter function (quite basic) will earn 3200 zloty netto? She is less qualified than me, has no work experience which i have and she speaks only Spanish and English.

I do not expect to earn 5000 zloty a month, but 2500 is certainly a lower-extreme which i frankly don't want to believe.

Everything of course depends on the company, and as you said: a good amount of luck.

Ehh... 2500-3000 is a norm is such jobs... 3500-4000 is max which occasionally happen...


You don't believe in what? It's almost an average national salary here, you don't believe that entry level jobs pay ~90% of average salary ?

OK your expectation are now getting lower you initially wanted 6k - 7k per month net. 2.5k is on the lower end of of the ranges a lot are speaking about so you could get more. Now comparing you to your friend, the role they got probably required (I could be wrong) Spanish and a relevant degree that they had. So you could assume that you would get similar amounts. Yes you know a number of languages but you would not be compensated for them unless you can get a job that requires these languages. All because you know them doesn't mean you would be paid a higher amount if they are not required.

Your experience seems limited again unless you have been the new star of the department and leading these projects/teams? Now if you can find a job which 100% requires the languages you know, completely matches your experience and you interview very well then 5k may not be that far off. However is there a job out there for that? That is where the luck comes in (or you have contacts) and as said before this is main the factor probably.

Many jobs i saw require people who speak Fluent English (no big deal) and additional languages, mostly they are listed and they range from Dutch to Hungarian to French to Italian, etc. I guess that both my Dutch and Italian should be useful, as well as French.

My experience is indeed very limited, and i do not count too much on that. Nevertheless, i will look out for jobs where some experience is required and where my knowledge overlaps with what is asked.

And then there is the luck factor. I do not have any connections.

As an example, review this job offer from Microsoft (for which i already applied, although it seems a bit difficult to achieve):

careers.microsoft.com/jobdetails.aspx?ss=&pg=1&so=&rw=8&jid=112860&jlang=EN&pp=SS

Those are more the types of jobs that i'm looking for (ideally..): not starters positions but jobs who demand knowledge that I achieved during my (limited) experience in big mulitnational companies.(and , again , ideally who require additional languages that i master)

I cannot realize that this kind of job at Microsoft would pay me 2500 zlotty netto. I estimate it in the range of 4500 - 5000 zlotty netto.

Here is an email i got from a professional based in poland, from a recruitment agency

Thank you very much for your email.
I am really glad that you have asked so many questions, especially regarding the financial side, since this is extremely improtant.
I have done a lot of relcoations, majority of them from Netherlands and Belgium, soi undersatdn how important are factors like cost of living, etc.

Please see below the link to the website that we use to show the cost of living:

The prices are given in net amount. Please use currency converter, for instance oanda.com

In terms of salaries, for salaries up to 7500 PLN gross the level of tax deducted from your salar is 18%.
Usually apart form basic salary employee has a set of social benefits like private medical care, insurance, access to sport facilities, and many other dependign on each Company.

Just to give you an overview of salaries in Poland - the average salary in Poland in major city is 3 800 PLN gross, whereas the minimum salary is 1500 PLN gross. For candidates speaking with Dutch, Flemish the salary range is between 5000 - 7500 PLN gross, depending on the experience and the city (£odź is cheaper than Kraków, hence salaries are lower - for £ódź the salary is around 4000 PLN gross.

Please note that salary 6500 - 7500 in Krakó is given for candidates with relevant experience).

I would be more than happy to discuss with you opportunities with have in Poland , but it is at the beginnign important for me to understand in what type of roles you could show the best of you.

I am sorry but i have to say that you have lost your mind.
Poles with degrees are working in the kitchens in your country, how can you expect good salary here?

One thing to remember about recruitment agencies they are effectively sales consultants and in my experience they will always show things in the most positive light.


They say the salary range is from 5k to 7.5k then quote £ódź at 4k... Remember these are gross salaries, after tax and what not these will be around 30% (the rate given by other posters) less give or take so between 3.5k - 5.2k with £ódź at 2.8k. The consultant also states the higher salaries are for people with experience, not sure how much that would be but I would be thinking 5 years at least....

Given the above both on this board and the recruitment agency are saying around the same levels....

I would say that the reqruitment agency gives a bit higher numbers. If i assume i would get the minimum as projected there, so 5k, that would mean 3.5k net. If i do a good interview, apply for a well paying company and if i have exactly the experience they look for , i could get more than 3.5k.

On the forum here people said that more than 3.5k is very very unlikely.

Anyway, again, everything is a case by case and depends on luck. I just thought that the forum here is a bit too pessimistic.

I see they've completely failed to mention the social security deductions which will take another chunk out of those gross salaries.


They've got that wrong too - it's 1600zl and due to climb to 1680zl.


You could, but like people have told you - you're not going to get in the 6-7k range. If you set your sights at getting 4000zl net, then you might just get it.

No, people are not pessimistic. We are realist because we know Poland and you do not. Most people in Poland make no more than 2,500/3,000 (gross).

Unless an expat (on an expat contract), in Poland you won't make less than in Belgium or Western Europe. If you had a partner in Poland, we could understand but dropping everyting in Brussels to move to a country with worse conditions does not make any sense.

of course to read: "you will make less than in Belgium";)

Actually, he's already said above that careers in international companies are far more likely in Poland than in Belgium.

Depends. If i could have 4000 net than i would still be able to safe a decent amount and have a better life quality.

As much as i overestimate Poland, many of you overestimate countries as Belgium. Not everything is so perfect here in Brussels. You might make good money, but there are other factors in life. In brussels over 60% of peple are not fixed in the city and only stay for short term. Moreover, it's full of immigrants and quite unsafe.

On the carreer-side: multinational companies don't hire that much, while in Poland they do

My move to poland is not only for financial reasons of course.

I don't know salary policy of Microsoft but generally it seems to be a 3k/month kind of job.


Why ?

Ppl on this forum is talking out of their arse sometimes..
Look getting 4000net is very realistic. You might have to apply a few places, but for sure they'll give you this. Its less than 6000zl gross which here in Krakow is a very normal salary for a starting position with native dutch.

Look, Poland doesn't provide any high salaries in any corporations. Your salary after your hired will more or less not change even after 3-5 years. But 4000net is considered to be a decent salary, but I wouldn't say so.. You can probably save a little bit, considering that you do not travel almost at all and if you only shop in Biedronka or some other extreme discount shop!

If you make 4000net in Poland you only come here to have fun, and that's that. The job you will be doing is super boring, the money you'll be making sucks, but the country is beautiful as well as the women, and the alcohol and quality of life is decent.

Why: It is quite a demanding job and requires a narrow field of expertise and good skills with databases, excel and KPI's. It's not a starters job. Moreover, Microsoft is known to pay quite well and are in a sector that are known to pay quite well.

But Microsoft would be very happy to welcome you applying for the job, for sure. And they would be very happy to get to know your salary expectations.

Maybe my expectations of salary in poland are too high, but yours are definately too low if you would find 3000 net as a "fair" salary for this kind of job at Microsoft.

phtoa: the fact that your job is boring still depends on the job you have. You are generalizing a bit.

Also, with 4000 zloty net, as far as i am aware, you should be able to safe and have a normal lifestyle .

These are not my expectations but realistic assessment, again which part of "Poland is a poor country" you don't understand ? You seem to think that If you tell an employer "but I want more" they will pay you more, there are jobs where you can negotiate the salary but few and that's for sure not one of them and It is totally irrelevant If one find the amount of cash "fair" or not.

I have been reading more on this forum and some poles who hire in Warsaw for big companies stated that 4000-5000 netto is very possible.

The information i got from the consultant also is in line with that.

Maybe you are too fixed on your idea of salaries and are under-selling yourself. Maybe you THINK that the wages you put forward are earned by all, but maybe it is not.

It's very possible provided you have something they want. Getting 4000-5000 for a starter job won't be possible unless the language is really in demand and a language that is spoken in a country with significantly higher salaries. That's why Danish and Norwegian gets rewarded here.


When everyone on this forum is telling you that your expectations are too high, perhaps it is? You're only earning 7000zl net in Brussels - why would you get anything anything close to that in a country where salaries are far lower?


In Warsaw? Not a chance. You'll be able to live, but don't expect to save anything.


I think he is struggling to understand how big the salary gap actually is for those at the beginning of a career. In a society where tens of thousands of graduates are churned out each year driving down salaries, there's really no need to pay the kind of money that he talks about.


What you think is "fair" really has nothing to do with it. What matters is what they're willing to pay - and if they don't have to pay more than 3000zl net + benefits, why would they?

All in all, Poland can be summed up like this -

- If you want adventure? Come to Poland.
- If you want girls? Come to Poland.
- If you want to start a career in an international company? Come to Poland.
- If you want money? Don't come to Poland.

I don't think so.

That's not only Warsaw, I'd sat this goes for all the major cities in Poland.


Couldn't agree more!

You can find a job who pay's 4000net as I said, either way I do not believe you'd come here for the job as I can promise it most likely will be nothing interesting.

Just like the rest of the dutch here, they come for the women! And yes I generalize because it's the truth.

So you obviously have a different opinion to those of us who are experienced, so why not work through your agents and see what the best offer is. But as someone who employs lots of accounting staff i can assure you i would not pay more than 3500 zloty for an accounts receivable clerk.

You are comparing to cap gemini and microsoft but they are IT companies and ITstaff are having a moment in the sun in Poland, but theirnsalaries are already rising so much that they will soon he uncompetitive v bulgaria, romania, ukraine etc.

Exactly what i will do.
I can only aim at a high salary and if i can't achieve it i'll cut my losses.
No harm done then.

That would be true if the countries GDP PPP per capita would be similar. When one country is 2 x poorer why would saving remain equal???


You know, some people study languages here, because they're not good at math, find it easy and they're happy to find any job after graduation. Premium is not necessary. And when median salary in Poland is around 2000 PLN NET then 3000PL NET is not bad.


That's quite common in Poland.


It's normal for Warsaw salaries to be up to 30% higher than in other Polish big cities.


"You would need around 8,326.86zł (1,926.18€) in Warsaw to maintain the same standard of life that you can have with 3,600.00€ in Brussels"

"Consumer Prices in Warsaw are 46.47% lower than in Brussels"

But with cheaper prices of everything in Poland comes lower quality.


That's funny. I've been thinking that it's because of job supply and demand.


Only Bulgaria and Romania. Ukrainians are working online for Americans and nearly don't have to pay taxes, so their NET salaries are equal or higher than in Poland. Similar about Belorussians.

@MatteoCarati: I think that you should also take a look at this graph with gross monthly salary distribution in Poland (2010) so you have an Idea about what is the proper salary.

To update this topic: I could earn 4500-5000 PLN net, through an agent.