Canada Increasingly a Gateway for Undocumented Polish Immigrants Entering the U.S.

OK, deport him. How many more cases do you know?

You can make the argument all you want, but individual Schengen members cannot make their own tourist visa policies. That has nothing to do with the US. If Poland wants to make its own tourist visa policies, it would need to get out of the Schengen agreement.


Who cares, it's the law. Either you change it, or you're subject to it. Go out and campaign for amnesty for illegal aliens if it's a big deal for you.


Absolutely. Once Schengen visa rules came into effect, quite a few Americans were deported because they could no longer do visa runs at the border.

I was only quoting to begin with but as far as the number 63 itself, how many illegal Americans live in Poland? Do you believe, you'll find 63 of them?


can you provide a link, please? I'm only asking because you said "quite a few".

Even though i wasn't born in the States, i have been here for 20 years and am a citizen i wouldn't want illegal immigrant even from Poland. There is way to many illegals in this country mostly Mexicans. Just take jobs and lower wages of people who have the right to be here.

what do you mean by that? What are we reaching for?

Personal experience. Once the law came into effect, Americans could no longer just cross the border to Germany, get stamped, and get another 90 days. Two of my favorite bartenders were deported in one fell swoop. For a while, it became pretty common for ex-employees with bad blood to tip off the police on violators. I don't know what it was like in Poland, as there aren't near as many Americans here as in the Czech Republic.

Just search on google and read the posts on prague.tv and expats.cz, those are the two biggest expat forums.
google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=americans+deported+schengen

Personally I don’t give a flying Fvck like I have stated in that thread live and let live' for some it's a hard concept to grasp being anal all their pathetic lives.


As tourists but those wishing to stay in Poland, set up business etc. a whole new ball game. Any one wishing to reside in Poland a fair game.



Not at all, it has no bearing on me as an individual. Just having a bit of fun with a pathetic arguments presented here, you on the other hand have a lot to think about if this issue is not resolved soon, the numbers of illegals is staggering.

Well, your "personal experience" won't convince me much. I hope you understand it.
I only asked because you said "quite a few" and I don't think it was quite a few (maybe one or two). When we lived in Poland, in 4 years, I've met about 40 Americans and 35 of them were American-Indian students in Lublin.

Czech Rep. is not an issue here, sorry.

Right, and they have to get visas, just like Poles going to the US. American money flowing into Poland is a bit greater than the other way around. Make it more difficult to stay, miss out on the FDI that is driving the economy. It would be one of those pride things that hurts the average Pole much more than the handful of Americans residing in Poland. From what I understand, it's not all that easy for an American to just decide to stay in Poland. Don't know, don't care really. It's up to Poland to decide what's best.


What pathetic arguments? That they're breaking the law? It's true.


Read the comment again. I was talking about the Czech Republic. There aren't very many Americans here. There are (and were) tons in the Czech Republic. You can ask google if you want, I even gave a handy little link.


Talking about the Schengen zone and the single visa law, and Americans get deported for breaking the law here in the Schengen zone, just like Poles get deported for breaking the law in the US.

Oh, come on, don't be so punctilious. Of course I meant rich...

Like the corporations really care, they settle down where the environment is suitable for their business, if they decide to move on it’s based on profitability not individual countries visa policy. What others are bickering about they simply don’t care as long as it’s not affecting them directly, it’s all global these days. Tell me what would US government do? Global corporate giants are not swayed by US foreign policy, it’s the other way around if you ask me. Would US government revoke the free movement of goods or services because it is located in Poland? Please.

Most of the FDI from the US is coming from SMEs that send quite a bit of staff over. The big corps do as well. The more difficult that is, the less investment there is. Why go to hostile Poland when you could go to a welcoming neighbor state with similar labor costs?

I know, that's why I said that Czech Rep. is not an issue here (not in this thread anyway).


I understand what you're saying about the Schengen Zone and that its members have to follow the Schengen rules and laws but I still want to discuss about illegal immigration in the USA and Poland, that's it.


OK, thx :-)

The law, and it's application, is the same in both countries. I'm sure the ratios are about the same as well.

From their perspective there’s no borders or nation states, if the business suffers because of some policy they will put some pressure to settle it but the visa squabble is not really an issue for them is it? The cheap labor is always the locals, they move to greener pastures as soon as new markets open US and Poland would never dare to restrict the way they do their business so really who is who makes no difference or where they choose to locate their facilities. Profit is the king in that game.

Indeed, and if your specialists and execs are caught up in bureaucratic visa hangups which affect their productivity, and obviously profits, you can bet they won't dump money here. ROI ends up being lower because of the higher overhead. Simple really...but back to Polish immigrants. I don't know of anyone here that has dreams of going to the US. I'm guessing the number of long term applicants has dropped significantly.

For the top executives the governments band over to make sure everything is running smooth, but that always been the case pulling strings no matter what the laws are or where they are. We are talking about an average Joe here though aren’t we?


Agreed hence my statement as it being a pothatic argument wrapped up in old wives tails and urban myths.

Of which there is only a handful, so it wouldn't really matter anyway. If you're discounting engineers, managers, and execs, I don't personally know any Americans here.

guesswho wrote:


hmmm. that's about 25 more than I've met.

convex wrote:


In 4 years, I've run into 3 in the ESL industry. Of the other Americans, they were at least management level in corporations.

I have always wondered to myself if it would have been much different while living in say Warsaw or Krakow. There certainly must be more Americans there. Even still, I'd guess not many.

As I said before this topic interested me from the "numbers" point of view. After some digging I found interesting info here (should I send it to wikileaks? ;) ) :

dhs.gov/files/statistics/publications/yearbook.shtm

Among others things it says that number of "Tourists and business travelers" (without student exchange) in 2009 (wich I suppose means tourist visas) was:

-> 133,591

Number of "deportable aliens located by region and country of nationality: fiscal year 2009" from Poland was:
-> 216

The problem is that USA embassy in Poland refuses visa to something between 20%-26% of applicants (data from some blog so not entirely solid). Based on a lucky guess they assume rightly or wrongly that those people would break tourist visa constraints. It is those US clerks refusals wich is compared with this 3% threshold, not some real sins of visa holders. I was trying to find some estimations about overstaying and so on, but the only thing I found was this:

dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/statistics/illegal.pdf

and it bassically says that estimated number of illegal immigrants of Polish origin dropped from 95000 to 70000 between 1988 and 1996 (it is total number, not yearly increase). I wonder what it would say for current year.... Anyway I would welcome some fresh data regarding breaking visas conditions putted here by our dear american forumers. Till then I must rationally assume that based on this data it seems that it is not a problem on Polish side but it is a problem of USA embassy clerks attitude... I mean if Poles are so eager to break tourist visa constraints then why only 216 of them were deportable ? Correct me please...

only because of the Medical Academy in Lublin, otherwise it would be much less.

That is freacking hilarious:


thenews.pl/international/artykul143966_polish-us-visa-waver-program-tied-to-nuclear-reduction-talks.html

This gay has some Polish roots... Well now I don't blame americans that they don't want more Poles there :-) On the other hand go Voinovich, go! ha ha ha :-)

Wait a minute, he is not:


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Voinovich

Is there some Polish population in his district? Or maybe Crow has something to do with it ;)

PS. this refusal rate dropped to 9.8%

Getting back on topic, another insult, Obama completely ignored Komorowski, not having a decency to answer the question at hand changing the subject. Makes you wonder if he even listened? Interpreter had a thick accent but still.

Poland is one of the strongest and closest allies of the United States in the world - Barack Obama said during a press conference after meeting with Bronislaw Komorowski . Komorowski attention that "the Polish public opinion completely does not understand why the entire Polish environment can benefit from visa-free travel , and Poland did not ," Obama ... praised the president for a gift - Promoted Polish motifs , which hung on the Christmas tree at his desk .

As Obama said , Poland is also a " leader in Europe " , so very appropriate thing is that the "first visitor from Central and Eastern Europe is the Polish president ."

I'll be honest with you, with this interpreter, I wouldn't listen either. I've met many Poles who sounded much better than her.

That’s not a behavior expected that of a statesman accent or no accent period.

That sounds like the "generic late 30's language school director who knows best" accent.


There's quite a few in Krakow, but still nothing on the level of Prague or Berlin.

Still, there was a member of this forum deported from Poland for breaking the law in regards to residency and work permits!

Bull hockey my friend. It's actually an insult to use an incompetent interpreter like her where the "statesman" (using your words) probably didn't understand a half of what she was saying.


Thanks dd, this is exactly how I feel about it too.

LOL Changing the subject is a typical behavior of a peasant who is simply lost when confronted with a hard question, one that has not spend enough time in right circles. Simple statement on his part like; 'we are not currently in the process of having this discussion nor do I see it being revisited in the near future' would do. Simple, concise and to the point.

I have lived there long enough to know that any decisive actions or legislations are blocked and labeled as a radical. Half measures taken are not sufficient to stop migration from the south, some powerful entities are not interested in sorting that out !


Not everything that is baned by a law is a crime and you should know that!
According to your definition Washington and the others were criminals!
I can agree that it is not nice and fair to be illegal in U.S. but its ain't no crime.
I would add that U.S. system of internal control let people live and prosper for 10, 20 or 30 years and then out of the blue thread them as a trash and kick them out ......pretty brutal and unfair I say! tit for tat ?

Well, I don't like Obama but still, your' interpreter sucks big time and I wouldn't be surprised if Obama simply didn't understand her or most of what she said and if he didn't, his behavior was actually more than friendly because he could have just as well said that he didn't understand her and this would be probably really taken as an insult by you guys as it would point out the lack of ability to present a qualified interpreter at an important meeting like that.


I posted somewhere in this thread already that it is a federal crime in the US. I provided a link too.