Polish-Americans as seen in the false mirror. Type A and Type B.

I've never said I'm an expert, i just said i definitely know more than the average Pole. I know Poles who just came over and don't even have a basic knowledge of Polish history or the political scene. P.S just because you're a PO supporter and the slight majority of Poles are on your side doesn't mean you're right. Maybe that 30 of so percent of PiS supporters in Poland are right?? Maybe PO supporters are being liberal just to be liberal, or supporting a prime ministers party just because it's from their region( Pomerania) or because he represents a ethnic minority (Kasubians, Silesian Germans).

Yeah, Lodz, point taken. I could only say GuessWho as a non-Polam American has a deep sense of identification with her own nation. This makes her say "us" and I would absolutely accept that since this is the American cultural specialty.

So different to us, Poles, because "where two Poles, there three opinions", the voters split 50/50, and the "silent majority" does not vote at all but the Polonia votes for them... ;-)

SO have I.. so all this to me makes me angry, I cant ask them anymore, I cant ask, I have to fight
now.. fight people who push me out..


yeah, probably, but it still does say you can have more then one citizenship.

Yeah, Lodz, point taken. I could only say GuessWho as a non-Polam American has a deep sense of identification with her own nation. This makes her say "us" and I would absolutely accept that since this is the American cultural specialty.

So different to us, Poles, because "where two Poles, there three opinions", the voters split 50/50, and the "silent majority" does not vote at all but the Polonia votes for them... ;-)


This is why they left Poland.


Even if, it is the Poland's Poles who vote because they will take consequences of their choice for next 4 years.


The ethnic matter played no role until Mr Jaroslaw denounced Silesians and Kashubians as crypto-Germans. And this only happened now.

Edit: DID YOU WRITE "SILESIAN GERMANS"? Penny, you would be annihilated in Upper Silesia for saying that. No, you are definitely not any expert in Polish matters.

Well I didn't know guess who had no Polish background ...

But hey hey hey.... calm down :D ... what do you mean by saying this? Americans are perfect in being united and unanimous? .. Oh Pleaseeee ... don't need to be so bright already Antek! ... I don't think they are any different from us when it comes to certain issues. Infact they have more challenges than us ...

They are a country with a beautiful diversity, I do agree that they are moving together forward. But in that also there are deep misunderstanding and variations in opinions due to cultural influence in their decision making system. They are a diverse set of sub-cultures which are no match for any of the Polish sub-culture available.

There is no comparison between Poland and America. While I completely agree that USA have some great attributes which I always wish Poland could follow, but that doesn't make Political differences or variety of conflicting opinions in the American society absent ... :)

I would like to see some diversity among Poles too :) ... as you know :D, I've been a motivator for that. But for that too I have a thread and its not an all out. However, with the friends I have who got settled in Poland through marriages and coming from greatly diverse societies even races ... they also tend to become immersed with Poland (I am sticking to those who are my friends ... and Poland being such a homogenous country, they have no other option really as they become as Polish as possible to manage their own families which is understandable). However, this is not applicable to UK or USA where people actually prefer to maintain as much as possible their native or ancestral culture :) ... it makes the opinions and thinking process of the country not have THREE OPINIONS ONLY ;) ... BUT PROBABLY THREE HUNDRED :D ...

But they still move along ... because its in the right direction as per such a diverse country should go. Its the greatest melting pot of the world ... and if you see some Animation movies :), they always picture themselves as some different Darkish color with a white man's features etc ... some new thing as per I could notice (you can notice too if you see those animation movie with futuristic themes) ... They are headed that way .. and you know what? I think they will remain SUPER POWERS and the world's most attractive country~! ... and YOU KNOW WHAT MORE??? ... I want that :D ...

Anyways ... there you go :) ... three opinions? ... :D ... just be happy its not 300... ... yet :P!


Who pushes you out? ... they must be mad :D .. seriously crazy :) ...

But if you read my post ... I am really not thinking of getting Polams to NOT BE POLES ... They are Poles partly and they infact should be given all privileges ... but when it comes to voting... how relevant do you think a Polam will be? :) ... I mean, give all privileges and all facilities, ... but anyone before voting should stay atleast one unbroken reign of a government to understand the country's requirements... right? :)

I know what they are or call themselves (Silesians) they are in reality not true Silesians (Slavs) but Germans who stayed in the Silesian region, therefore Silesian Germans. Those Silesian Slavs have long seen themselves as Poles.


Because they know it's more attractive and favorable, beauty sells these days. Look at rap videos, or movie stars or girls with wealthy boyfriends. If it's a woman of color, she is or looks mixed, caramel complexion and white facial features. P.S. You think Obama would have been picked if he was jet black?

youtube.com/watch?v=6xukxdw9j2k
Banana... Boat, it is almost magical that Americans can unite and say "us" while remaining so wonderfully diversified. While Poles can only cram Aleje Jerozolimskie with funeral candles and not clean the street the day after so other Poles swear while trying to park their cars.

By the way, I have to unsay my words about potential fate of Penny in Upper Silesia if he dared to mention "Silesian Germans". Silesian are fantastic people. If Penny mentioned "Silesian Germans", even those Silesians who cannot speak German at all (and there are many of them) would grin at Penny and start speaking German. Moreover, they would start singing Nazi songs! You know why, Penny? Because Silesians, after hundreds of years being told they were Poles, German, Czech, developed contrary sense of humour. "You don't want admit we are Silesians? Then we'll show you you are RIGHT!" ;-) On the other hand, if you were a German, Penny, and told Silesian they were Poles, they would start singing 'Jeszcze Polska nie zginęła' instantly :D


You know nothing Penny. The only Germans in Poland live in Opole area.

ok, my exaggerated and exasperated <~ WHEW Big words for me ;) feelings..


I agree, I think there should be knowledge of current affairs and I am sure that those who
recently left, still hold citizenship and want to be a part of it should.. Maybe their votes would
make a difference in who is voted in.

I also feel those who are still citizens of Poland who vote here should as well... thats the
Privliges set aside for those who applied for them.

there is still people who are jealous. I doubt it will get any better anytime soon.

but Lodz.. I know you welcome me there.. I welcome you here.. thats how it should be.

;)

Oh, oh, my favourite topic.

For what it's worth, I can see on PF that Polish-Americans fit into three clear categories - type I, II and III.

Type I is the stereotypical "Polack" - very uptight about Poland, regards themselves as being Polish, claims to be an expert on Poland, blindly supports the rhetoric of parties who "defend Poland" without having much, or any of a clue about what they are - in general, they can be called Plastic Poles with some conviction. This group wouldn't do a thing to defend Poland outside of providing lipservice. This group is almost universally unaware of some aspects of Polish history - and they often throw terms such as "100% PURE POLISH" without much, if any of a clue of how Poland evolved as a nation over the last 1000 years.

This same group is also by far the most racist of the types - despite not actually speaking Polish or ever having lived here. This group is also by far the most aggressive - and often repeat slogans such as "TUSK IS A RUSSIAN TRAITOR" freely. They, unsurprisingly, endorse the Smolensk conspiracy theories and have no issues with bringing such tragic events up to suit their own purposes.

Type II are my favourite group - they can genuinely be called Polish-Americans with pride. They take a keen interest in Poland, they try to visit, they learn at least some of the language and they show great restraint when discussing Polish issues. They certainly don't regard themselves as experts, yet you can tell that many of them would love to live here if they could. The best examples on this forum are Patrycja and Softsong. There are others, of course - but this group - I would happily embrace as being Polish at heart.

Type III are the type who seem to be in complete denial about their own history. They often are the offspring of collaborators in some way, or have rather dubious family histories. They claim to be Polish, but do very little to help - often believing that Poland is in someway far worse than the rest of Europe - usually after being told sob stories from relatives in Poland. Almost universally, they come from Poland B.

Great topic, Antek :)

Could you please give your definition of "Poland B"?

Another hero of PL in real life was a Irish lady named Eileen, during the Warsaw uprising she was a radio operator for the AK. There is a memorial plaque to her in the,Church of Our Lady Queen of the Polish Crown, on Ulica Dluga, Warsaw.

Let us not forget about Princess Daisy of Pless, Englishwoman married to the Duke Heinrich von Pless, the latter being a caricature of a German at the times of WWI. Daisy did not accept her husband involvement in WWI (he hosted the German General Staff for almost whole WWI) and herself being English, she demonstrated her views publicly. That ended badly for Daisy, Heinrich divorced her and let her die in poverty and oblivion, yet she was able to raise her two sons to be great Polish patriots.

Pszczyna is today the capital of Green Upper Silesia and has been Polish since the end of WWI.

You had anyone in particular in mind??? If you meant me I'm far from being Plastic. You'll never look or have a Polish mentality, i even doubt you'll learn to speak our language well.

So is this thread about categorizing your real life contacts Antek or is it about Polish-Americans in general? I ask because these two types you have delineated seem to be about immigrants from Poland who have arrived recently in America and gotten citizenship, but these Polish-Americans are by far the minority of Polish-Americans. Polish-Americans number some 10 million people most of whom are 2nd, or 2rd, or, 4rth generation American citizens. We do not need to "try to melt" into American society because we are an integral part of it and have been so for decades. Most of us do not even try to maintain a link to Poland either nor do we consider ourselves Polish ambassadors. That being said we do not fit into category A, but that hardly makes us part of category B by default as most of its bullet points only apply to recent immigrants as well. If this thread's categorization of Polish-Americans was intended to be exhaustive then it has failed miserably.

Antek, you forgot to mention how widly published she was, hardly in oblivan, she was poor, but she obviously chose this, she could have gone back to England and lived a simple but comfortable life, she came from good stock who were not short of a bob or two.

Oh just one more thing she lived in Waldenburg which was German at that time, so how could she raise her children as Polish nationalists whilst living in Germany?

She did. Don't ask me how. (Patriots, not nationalists). One of the sons served under Gen. Anders and the other in the English Army, during WWII.

True some 660,000 people in America speak Polish at home, just part of them are American citizens. So the rest of the 10 million are 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th generation Americans and are well assimilated.

Uh, the behaviour by many Polish Americans, such as yourself, suggest that you do indeed consider yourself to be an ambassador of Poland.

You're certainly great ambassadors for the racism of the 2nd RP and Poland B in general.

I speak for myself on this forum not for Poland, nor have I ever claimed otherwise.


I side with Piłsudski and not with Dmowski when evaluating the 2nd Republic and I have never made a racist comment on this forum. You on the otherhand have made racist remarks about the impurity of Polish-American blood and were suspended yesterday for so doing, and yet you have the gall to accuse me of racism because you have no class, nor do you comprehend what you read, because this thread's OP posits no "Poland B" but rather Polish-Americans of a type labelled B.

Right. That's why you harp on constantly about being Polish-American, as if it's something superior.


Do you?

So, you approve of Piłsudski's concept of emcompassing many people within the Polish state? You approve of Poland being home to essentially anyone who wants a home, regardless of ethnic origin? Riiiight. Your comments about Germans says quite the opposite.


Would you like the history lesson about Poland now, or after?

Ask yourself about the purity of people such as Mickiewicz, Pilsudski, et al - and you might just learn why Polish-American blood is highly unlikely to be 100% Polish, especially as many of them came from the desperately poor Eastern borderlands.

I have always held up Poland's shining multi-ethnic and multi-cultural republic as an example for other states to follow and I see her in this respect as a European instance of what makes the USA great. I have never advocated ethnically cleansing Germans from anywhere. If I warn people to beware of an unfortunate conformist streak in German culture that does not mean I think Germans are less than human nor that they should be mistreated. Are you confusing me with another poster?


I have never claimed my blood is 100% Polish, nor have I ever made any assertions about the purity or impurity of anyone's blood including my own. You ranted about impure blood and were suspended for it. Do not confuse me with yourself.