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Western Europe is not Paradise after all (Polish doctors in the UK more popular)


pawian 155 | 8,507
25 Jun 2013  #1
Polish doctors in the UK are becoming more popular than inefficient British NHS medical care provider.

Patients shun NHS for clinics run by Polish GPs:

Read more:

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2337682/Patients-shun-NHS-clinics-run-Polish-GPs-Cut-price-private-surgeries-doctor-seven-days-week.html

What is wrong with NHS? The same as everywhere - it is for free (when you have insurance), so it is natural it can`t satisfy all the needs. Still, some aspects of the quality of their service are really scandalous.

Excerpts
he realised there was 'a gap in the market because NHS care was so poor'. He added: 'You have heard the stories about people going to GPs and whatever is wrong with you they give you a paracetamol and tell you to go away.

'People find it hard to get help. They want to come to one place that they know, where they know what to expect, get the treatment and from people they trust.


'I tried the NHS but I felt like I was getting nowhere because they kept sending me to people who said they couldn't help me. I feel like I can trust what they tell me at My Medyk, they work to give me what I need, rather than make my need fit into a big system.'

'Every time they have an appointment they start from square one and have to explain all their illnesses and medication.'[/b]

jon357 63 | 14,076
25 Jun 2013  #2
Polish doctors in the UK are becoming more popular than inefficient British NHS medical care provider.

That's a truly daft assertion. One private clinic has opened. Not really 'more popular', is it. There's an Austrian dental practice in Warsaw - are you going to claim that Austrian dentists are 'more popular' than Polish ones?

Worth mentioning that the newspaper you've quoted is a bit dodgy - they always criticise any sort of public sector activity, and specialise in scaremongering about the NHS.
OP pawian 155 | 8,507
25 Jun 2013  #3
One private clinic has opened. Not really 'more popular', is it

Jon, forgive me being too predictive, yes, I should have said "gaining popularity" or another, but I also took the effort of reading the comments under the article:

I wish there was one f these near me, you have to literally beg for an emergeny appointment even ringing up at 8am to an engaged line constantly, when you finally get through you get told "sorry we are full ring back tomorrow or go to a and e" and it takes several days!

more private clinics are inevitable as more people will not tolerate the difficulty of getting an appointment with their GP. Unless the government agrees that the "free at the point of need" is unsustainable for GP services the NHS will not continue in it's present form. I would love a clinic like this in my locality

If these were around where I live, I would certainly use them. It's true what they say about NHS GP's just giving you a paracetamol and telling you to go away! Please open more of these around the country!

I rather see more of these private clinics as NHS is rubbish!! Why am I paying for NHS doctors don't even make an effort to cure you. In the end of the day, the patients are paying the salary of these rubbish GP doctors.

People vote with their wallets. Our NHS GP service is no longer fit for purpose. Ruined by Blairs stupidly lucrative contract GPs have opted out of providing a real service, do the minimum and make it as awkward as possible to see them. More private clinics please.

Sounds good to me! I like the breast ultra sound would be great to have drop in clinics like this scattered all over!


So, instead of focusing on my language, how about discussing the subject matter? :):):

Worth mentioning that the newspaper you've quoted is a bit dodgy - they always criticise any sort of public sector activity, and specialise in scaremongering about the NHS.

That well may be.

E.g.,

The propaganda continues. When is the Daily Mail going to publish the names of Conservative MPs with financial links to companies involved in private healthcare? There's 59 of them to chose from.

However, do you think the negative comments by posters about paracetamol and 2 week waiting for appointment are untrue?

Thank you for voicing your opinion. :):)
Harry
25 Jun 2013  #4
how about discussing the subject matter? :):)

What's to discuss? Paying more for private health care gets one better service: there is very little to debate there. It is most certainly the same in Poland (although here I very often wait 48 hours or more to see a Medicover doctor and waits of a couple of weeks are not at all uncommon when it comes to seeing a specialist).
sobieski 107 | 2,129
25 Jun 2013  #5
I can testify to Medicover waiting times. They are getting worse all the time. I heard this is because they are taking on too many new customers (mainly through contracts with companies) and do not have the staff to handle that inflow.
OP pawian 155 | 8,507
25 Jun 2013  #6
It is most certainly the same in Poland (although here I very often wait 48 hours or more to see a Medicover doctor and waits of a couple of weeks are not at all uncommon when it comes to seeing a specialist).

I knew someone would drop a line about Poland for comparison - it wasn`t the question of "if" but "when and who."

Thank you, Harry, for not disappointing me. :):):):)

Still, look at the title of the thread and try to conform, OK? :):):)

PS. If you compare Poland, can`t you see a difference between weeks of waiting to see a specialist in Poland and a regular GP in UK??? That is what I found scandalous. It is simply something unimaginable in Poland. As for my local state clinic, I call in the morning, go in the afternoon, 30 minutes waiting, 15 min appointment, thank you.
jon357 63 | 14,076
25 Jun 2013  #7
Beware of taking the reader comments in the Daily Mail seriously. Very much 'glass half empty' and about as truthful as some of the dafter posters here.
OP pawian 155 | 8,507
25 Jun 2013  #8
Beware of taking the reader comments in the Daily Mail seriously.

Will you be satisfied if one day I find more appropriate reader comments from a more respectable medium? Which one is that, in your opinion, I will commence looking for similar articles right now...... :):):
Harry
25 Jun 2013  #9
It is simply something unimaginable in Poland. s for my local clinic, I call in the morning, go in the afternoon, 30 minutes waiting, 15 min appointment, thank you.

It is far from unimaginable in Warsaw. Here, when using a private clinic (in my case Medicover) it is very unusual to get an appointment for a GP the same day, usually it is the next day or the day after that. However, in the little town near where my mother lives in England, the situation is much as you describe (although without the 30 minute wait in the waiting room).
OP pawian 155 | 8,507
25 Jun 2013  #10
It is far from unimaginable in Warsaw. Here, when using a private clinic (in my case Medicover) it is very unusual to get an appointment for a GP the same day, usually it is the next day or the day after that

That is sth I didn`t know of. Strange.

We have always been insured in state medical system.
Harry
25 Jun 2013  #11
We have always been insured in state medical system.

That system round these parts is vastly over-stretched. A couple of years back my Mrs spent a couple of days in hospital: the toilets for the ward she was in had no toilet paper, no soap and nothing to dry your hands on.
jon357 63 | 14,076
25 Jun 2013  #12
Will you be satisfied if one day I find more appropriate reader comments from a more respectable medium?

Not really - there was a rush of articles all in the same week placed by that private clinic's PR people.

We have always been insured in state medical system.

Me too, and the last time I used it, the only doctor on duty in the hospital I went to was drunk while at work. I got to see him immediately because all the patients were waiting in the corridor until he finished his shift. Like me they all walked out of the room as soon as they saw him.

In the UK, by the way, I've never had to wait more than an hour to be seen, including at the new NHS Walk-in centre.
OP pawian 155 | 8,507
25 Jun 2013  #13
Jon , is Telegraph better?

johnward

If you visit your GP most times they will advise you are suffering from either stress or a virus. These are the key fall back get out of surgery quick responses favoured by all doctors that I know. The past practice of sending the patient away with a prescription for antibiotics has been ruled too dangerous now, because it has been compromised by the veterinary over use of antibiotics in farm animal production. Now paracetemol is the fallback cure all. It is cheap non toxic in low doses and the patient will think something positive has taken place following their two hour wait to be seen by their highly remunerated doctor.

I wonder if there is any increase in people using A&E nowadays?


Economist?

So... That's interesting. I'm a doctor practicing in Poland. I work in some places: in the internal medicine ward, as General Practitioner and in the emergency room. I met a lot of English tourists or poles with serious infections, f.e. pneumonia or baterial pharyngitis, and even pyelonephritis, which were treated with paracetamol or so called "homeopatic"! Of course, I always change the treatment in proper way. The british doctor is walking on the edge of medicine and quackery! I've never understood the western ethics of practicing the medicine... but paracetamol is overused in too difficult cases by too ignorant British doctors!! Good luck and take care (but not the national health care)! In general, the national healthcare is sick in both countries- Poland and England.

Pawian:Will you be satisfied if one day I find more appropriate reader comments from a more respectable medium?
Not really - there was a rush of articles all in the same week placed by that private clinic's PR people.

Oh, I see, sponsored articles. If you say so...
:)
jon357 63 | 14,076
25 Jun 2013  #14
is Telegraph better?

Not really. Brits like nothing more than criticising the NHS. Nevertheless, it is still among the best health services in the world and a thousand times better than the mess here, with drunken doctors, unnecessary tests, that Rutinoscorbin rubbish and services paid for individually. A colleague was once asked to pay extra for having his arm in plaster rather than a sling. When he refused, the 'nurse' tried to cut the plaster off!
Harry
25 Jun 2013  #15
I met a lot of English tourists or poles with serious infections, f.e. pneumonia or baterial pharyngitis, and even pyelonephritis, which were treated with paracetamol or so called "homeopatic"! Of course, I always change the treatment in proper way.

I'll call bullsh!t on that one. Who the hell is going to go on holiday when they've got pneumonia? Especially pneumonia that's being treated with paracetamol!

Oh, I see, sponsored articles.

Not sponsored articles, ones coming from well crafted and carefully timed press releases.
OP pawian 155 | 8,507
25 Jun 2013  #16
Not really. Brits like nothing more than criticising the NHS.

Oh, I see, they critisize for nothing. :):)

Nevertheless, it is still among the best health services in the world and a thousand times better than the mess here,

hmmm... I have serious doubts about it. 2 week wating time for an appointment with a simple GP? You must be out of your mind. :):):)

My wife just called, she took our medium son to hospital, the foot he sprained yesterday is already in plaster for a week. She is going to buy a pair of crutches for 37 zlotys.

But a subtlety has been missed, which is the assumption that EU migrants, specifically Polish people (as the largest single group) are coming from a third-rate health service of their own to a first-rate one of ours. This is, apparently, not the case; indeed, many Polish immigrants will go to some lengths to avoid NHS "tourism", up to and including paying for their care.

guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/17/nhs-myth-health-tourism-zoe-williams

Me too, and the last time I used it, the only doctor on duty in the hospital I went to was drunk while at work.

Such cases happen and are made public, but not so often as to talk about regular practice. That is why I must say you were most probably mistaken, the doctor was just tired, that`s all. You watch too much TV and read too much PF. How about relaxing a little? :):):).
jon357 63 | 14,076
25 Jun 2013  #17
Oh, I see, they critisize for nothing. :):)

Yes. Poles often do the same.

2 week wating time for an appointment with a simple GP?

1 hour in my personal experience. Not 2 weeks.

Such cases happen and are made public, but not so often as to talk about regular practice. That is why I must say you were most probably mistaken, the doctor was just tired, that`s all. You watch too much TV and read too much PF. How about relaxing a little? :):):).

He was drunk, not tired. Very drunk. BTW, I don't own a TV. Television is for proles.

Another thing that happened to me. I went to the doctor here in Warsaw with a fairly straightforward ailment. She prescribed me a medicine that puzzled me a bit. It seemed unusual for that particular matter. It didn't work so I went back to her colleague a week later. The second Polish doctor said: "Of course it doesn't work, that silly k*rwa doesn't know what she's talking about"!

No wonder I prefer the NHS.
OP pawian 155 | 8,507
25 Jun 2013  #18
He was drunk, not tired. Very drunk.

OK, so he was. Do you really think that the number of drunk doctors on duty is higher in Poland than in the UK?

Is BBC source good enough for you?
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4080424.stm
BBC One's Real Story found over the last 10 years 750 hospital staff in England had been disciplined over alcohol and drug-related incidents.
At Maidstone and Tunbridge Wells NHS Trust, three consultants in three years had been referred to the General Medical Council for alcohol problems. At East Kent NHS Trust, seven doctors and two nurses had been disciplined over drink and drugs in the last 10 years. The biggest figure came from the University of Leicester NHS Trust where 17 clinical staff, including one consultant, four nurses and two operating theatre practitioners were disciplined over the past decade.

The British Association of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgeons said a survey of 150 consultant surgeons revealed more than a fifth said they knew a colleague who they believed to be impaired by alcohol while on call.


The second Polish doctor said: "Of course it doesn't work, that silly k*rwa doesn't know what she's talking about"!

Such cases happen everywhere. Shal I find a few British ones? Come on, if I did, I would be really silly. Don`t be, either.

No wonder I prefer the NHS.

:):) Are you sure you are not on their pay list? :) Just joking.

A couple of years back my Mrs spent a couple of days in hospital: the toilets for the ward she was in had no toilet paper, no soap and nothing to dry your hands on.

Did they help her to recover at least?

My wife stayed in hospital a few years ago after delivering our last child. Some internal bleeding occured and they couldn`t identify it so they kept her for 1 month to make sure. But we didn`t care about lousy food (other conditions were OK, inroom bathroom had all necessary stuff) as long as best specialist took care of her. The insurance covered everything.
jon357 63 | 14,076
25 Jun 2013  #19
Do you really think that the number of drunk doctors on duty is higher in Poland than in the UK?

Yes. Many times more.

Such cases happen everywhere. Shal I find a few British ones? Come on, if I did, I would be really silly. Don`t be, either.

I'm talking about recent personal experience, not 'cases' however the danger with suggesting finding cases from the Internet is that there are plenty reported in the Polish media too.

:) Are you sure you are not on their pay list? :) Just joking.

Long experience of both systems. Nowadays, if I need to go to the doctor here, I usually go to friends - at least I know what I'm dealing with.

Neither system is perfect, but the NHS in my experience tends to be less hit and miss.
OP pawian 155 | 8,507
25 Jun 2013  #20
I see we need to stop for a while because you went into complete denial. :):) See you in the evening. :):)

But, of course, thanks for participating here, I really appreciate it.
jon357 63 | 14,076
25 Jun 2013  #21
Denial? Not really. Just what one sees. Interestingly, I've noticed more and more lawyers here advertising medical negligence services - quite a new thing.
Ant63 11 | 403
25 Jun 2013  #22
2 week wating time for an appointment with a simple GP?

Its a shame they forget to mention all the walk in centres that are available in the UK. Those where you arrive and take your turn; usually within 30 minutes where I live. But of course that spoils the story.

I think there is good reason its not so easy to see "your doctor" in the UK now and you are given the bounce by the receptionists. They are just plain fed up with wasting their time on the hypochondriacs. We had an issue where it was essential to see the doctor ASAP recently and once it was explained why, we were seen within 3 hours.

There are more than enough hypo's out there including my sister who managed to get banned from seven doctors in 20 years.
OP pawian 155 | 8,507
25 Jun 2013  #23
I see. Yes, my GP also complained about hypochondriac grannies and suggested introducing a small fee, like 15-10 zlotys, for a visit.

Denial? Not really. Just what one sees. Interestingly, I've noticed more and more lawyers here advertising medical negligence services - quite a new thing.

Sorry for this denial, I didn`t want to hurt you but you were too hasty with this alcohol. I have never come across a drunken doctor in Poland, nor do I remember anybody of my family and acquaintances telling me so. Of course, I know it happens, drunk doctor cases are sometimes made public in media but are always considered a great scandal.

That is why I simply don`t believe that Polish doctors booze more than British ones. You are wrong.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,531
25 Jun 2013  #24
I see. Yes, my GP also complained about hypochondriac grannies and suggested introducing a small fee, like 15-10 zlotys, for a visit.

It would make a lot of sense - it's a well known phenomenon that some elderly people see the doctor as a social life.

Instead of charging however, I'd simply introduce a rule that non-urgent cases in non-working people are at the back of the queue. Let them have their social life in the waiting room, while making sure that they don't block the doctor.

Its a shame they forget to mention all the walk in centres that are available in the UK. Those where you arrive and take your turn; usually within 30 minutes where I live. But of course that spoils the story.

They exist in Poland too, I don't have a bad word to say about them.
OP pawian 155 | 8,507
25 Jun 2013  #25
Clever! :):)

all the walk in centres that are available in the UK.

Oh, yes, I wanted to ask. What does it mean: walk in the centres?
Wroclaw 44 | 5,389
25 Jun 2013  #26
What does it mean: walk in the centres?

walk in centre (bez the).

a place/clinic where no appointment is needed.
jon357 63 | 14,076
25 Jun 2013  #27
a place/clinic where no appointment is needed

Though you can usually make an appointment as well. There are also walk in NHS dental practices in some towns.
OP pawian 155 | 8,507
25 Jun 2013  #28
walk in centre (bez the).

a place/clinic where no appointment is needed.

Aaahhh, now I see it. But it should be walk-in centre, right? Without that hyphen it is incomprehensible.
Wroclaw 44 | 5,389
25 Jun 2013  #29
But it should be walk-in centre, right?

yes.

a drop-in centre would be for the homeless and might offer something similar.
WielkiPolak 58 | 1,034
28 Jun 2013  #30
I must admit I find many of the NHS clinics to be **** poor here in England, including my local medical centre. In the past I have gone in with a throat infection, bad cough, high temperature, that I had for many days and was unable to get better from, so I have expected antibiotics. Some of the time, they just tell me to get some rest, and it will take care of itself. They only give antibiotics when I ask for them, telling them I cannot afford to wait a week or 2. They tell people to get some rest for many illnesses. That seems to be the reply if they don't really know what to do [or can't be bothered], so it's just, get some rest. People go in with all sorts of problems, and get told it is no big deal, it's normal, there is nothing to worry about. I had throat problems in the past, and was told to eat lots of ice cream to make it better.

I went to see a doctor about my throat infection and high temperature recently, she was Polish. She took my temperature, checked my back and front with a stethoscope and asked me a number of questions how I felt. She also looked inside my ears and mouth. Then she prescribed me antibiotics and a throat spray. I felt like she actually cared to find out what was wrong. Other doctors just ask me what is wrong, sometimes briefly look in my mouth, then just say, go to bed, get plenty of rest, it should be better in about a week. I do find doctors from Poland to be much better, I really do. It's almost as if they are being taught better or something. Either that, or, they understand that they need to do their jobs properly, because they have a responsibility to patients. I am generalising. There might be some bad Polish ones too, but not any I have had yet.


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