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Why can't unemployed Polish people on benefits just leave UK and go home please?


szczecinianin 4 | 345
28 Nov 2013  #181
No government nothing to get in the way of the free market so all should be good after all you said that rich countries tend to have less government. Are you not astounded that Somalia isnt thriving

Your points don't make sense. I've never stated I wanted to see no government, as I'm not some kind of anarchist. All you are capable of doing is stringing together a set of strawman arguments, which you, of course, win. Well done, you.

If you imagine socialism and government intervention to be the answer, may I ask how much time you have spent in post-communist Europe?
Barney 14 | 1,469
29 Nov 2013  #182
All I'm doing is pointing out the inconsistencies that free market evangelists gloss over.
You stated that richer countries tend to have less government intervention I'm saying that that is not true.
You want to remove benefits from the poor but not the rich I'm saying that is socialism for the rich.

Thats it really, nothing too complicated.

Its not really about winning or loosing, exchanging ideas in some cases allows openminded people to change or refine their view of things.
szczecinianin 4 | 345
29 Nov 2013  #183
Make some comparisons then, but it has to be like with like.

The most obvious would be North v South Korea.

How about Hong Kong under the beastly Brits vs mainland China?

West v East Germany?

I don't really think there's much of a sensible debate to be had, tbh.

You seem to be dodging my questions. Have you ever been to post-communist Europe?

This thread is wandering away from the topic.
Ironside 48 | 9,792
30 Nov 2013  #184
ronside if you want a real picture of what's going on read this extremely biased report from the BBC. The BBC are pro immigration. The comments below are more relevant than the article.

Well, What I can see is a lot of unlearned posers who are talking about their feelings and their beliefs and on a rare occasion about some extreme and no representative criminal behavior. There were few myths about immigrants in Britain which has been refuted. Somehow those fact doesn't seems to sink in into a common consciousness of the population.

Don't take me wrong I don't think that such populations transfer should be going on at all but it doesn't change the fact that majority of those whining about immigrants are either those who want to build political capital on people's resentment or morons.

Rather than see immigrants as invaders who are doing everything bad and if they don't they still are doing all those bad thing and are bad even if they are good and whoever says something to the contrary belongs to the conspiracy of pro-European clique.

They could see those immigrants as victims of the same disease that Britannia embraced long time ago namely a big international capital and corporate banking system. In whose interest all that shifting and propelling is going on inside the EU. Importing workers to fill vacancies or odd jobs has been a standing tradition in those so called "advanced" counties like Germany, France and Britain long before the EU has been joined by the new countries. The only thing that changed is that such import cannot be caped on a moment notice and that Britain seem to be handling that new immigration wave very badly but that is not a fault of immigrants.

They could but they will not because at best they are not very bright and at worst their vision is impaired by their harness.
Unless WB and his idea unsaddle all those mighty in charge. :)
bluesfan - | 85
1 Dec 2013  #185
The fact is that many British chavs abuse the system - they dwell in the UK with no language skills, they can't or won' find employment and stay on benefits, live in council houses some working on the black-market doing some odd jobs. Why won't they just get a job? Ort move to another country? Ah, they can't speak another language, can't support their families there, their children are uneducated and unpopular and can't learn or make friends (not like in the UK) and have normal life. They (the British chavs) are underdogs in the UK with no aspirations and no future.

If the thread is about unemployement and about pople living off benefits then the OPseriously needs to take a reality check. It's educated Poles and other central Europeans who keep our economy going, Hardworking individuals who usually speak two or more languages and work their asses off to provide for themselves and their families.

If it's about 'immigrants' - and I suspect it is - then the OP and all those who agree with him are nothing short of ignorant xenophobics who really should concentrate on improving their own lives and not worry about what other people are doing. After all it's the taxes from these 'immigrants' that are keeping millions of lazy Brits on the dole and in those lovely council flats :) :) :)

At the end of the day the free-market is and has never provided full employment, so people need to compete for jobs. Our brothers and sisters are very welcome in the UK. :) :)
szczecinianin 4 | 345
1 Dec 2013  #186
So you would just pay the British unemployed to do nothing indefinitely and import foreigners to do the work. That doesn't make a great deal of sense.

If you are critical of those unable to speak foreign languages, may I ask whether you can speak a foreign language yourself?
Ironside 48 | 9,792
1 Dec 2013  #187
So you would just pay the British unemployed to do nothing indefinitely and import foreigners to do the work. That doesn't make a great deal of sense.

That what they have been doing for quite some time.
szczecinianin 4 | 345
1 Dec 2013  #188
The idea of hardworking Poles and lazy Brits is a myth. Unemployment is higher in Poland than in the UK.

No doubt Bangladeshis would be happy to work for minimum wage in Poland Then we would be hearing from them about lazy Poles who didn't want to work.
Ironside 48 | 9,792
1 Dec 2013  #189
The idea of hardworking Poles and lazy Brits is a myth. Unemployment is higher in Poland than in the UK.

Gee ! read again sentence I quoted.

No doubt Bangladeshis would be happy to work for minimum wage in Poland Then we would be hearing from them about lazy Poles who didn't want to work.

I think Poles are happy to work for minimum wage in Poland.
szczecinianin 4 | 345
1 Dec 2013  #190
I think Poles are happy to work for minimum wage in Poland.

Would you be?
bluesfan - | 85
1 Dec 2013  #191
The idea of hardworking Poles and lazy Brits is a myth.

Wrong. It's the truth. You only need to live and work in the UK to see that.

Unemployment is higher in Poland than in the UK.

It's about the same. The govt fiddle the figures to make unemployment seem lower than it actually is.
For example, I see many scum who aren't 'unemployed'; they receive 'incapacity benefit'. This is due to being incapable of getting off their asses, and finding a job.

Thanks to 'incapacity benefit' many lazy Brits can sit at home, smoke weed, drink Special Brew, contribute nothing to society - and they're not even considered 'unemployed' - fantastic!!!

There is an underclass in the UK who make no attempt to be part of society and have no intention of working - this is the biggest problem in the UK.
szczecinianin 4 | 345
1 Dec 2013  #192
Wrong. It's the truth. You only need to live and work in the UK to see that.

I've lived and worked in the UK. Have you lived and worked in Poland?

There is an underclass in the UK who make no attempt to be part of society and have no intention of working - this is the biggest problem in the UK.

There is also an underclass in Poland. What do you imagine they are like?
bluesfan - | 85
1 Dec 2013  #193
Have you lived and worked in Poland?

Yes.

There is also an underclass in Poland. What do you imagine they are like?

I don't know. Maybe they think lazy uneducated foreigners like yourself should go back to your own country.
I mean after all, you don't even make an attempt to learn their language or conform to all their customs and traditions, do you? ;)
szczecinianin 4 | 345
1 Dec 2013  #194
That's a bit insulting. Do you imagine yourself to be harder working and better educated than myself?

About learning the language, I know enough to get paid for translating Polish.

Sure you know some 'lazy' Brits. Have you never met their Polish equivalents? If not, then you don't really know Poland and Poles, do you.
bluesfan - | 85
1 Dec 2013  #195
That's a bit insulting.

That was my point!

That's exactly what the uneducated and the underclass here say about 'immigrants' in the UK.
Do you understand now?
szczecinianin 4 | 345
1 Dec 2013  #196
That's fair enough.

However, do you see the point of paying people to do nothing and importing foreigners to work?

Because I don't.

And btw, I have nothing personally against any immigrants. It isn't 'wrong' to move to another country to find work.
bluesfan - | 85
1 Dec 2013  #197
Sure you know some 'lazy' Brits. Have you never met their Polish equivalents? If not, then you don't really know Poland and Poles, do you.

Nope. Clearly we must just have different social circles and different experiences. That or one of us is a little bit xenophobic and trying to slag off Poles....

However, do you see the point of paying people to do nothing and importing foreigners to work?
Because, I don't.

The UK does not 'import foreigners'! Neither Blair, Brown nor Cameron went on amazon or ebay and purchased 'foreigners' to be shipped to the UK.

Deadwood will always be deadwood, benefits or not.
Wouldn't you agree that it'd be better to welcomeour European brothers and sisters into the country and export all the scum to.... well, to anywhere that will take them?
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,681
1 Dec 2013  #198
no Bluesfan i dont agree, yes there is a British underclass does that mean we have to import more?
i dont get your 'logic'
bluesfan - | 85
1 Dec 2013  #199
Read my previous comment:

The UK does not 'import foreigners'! Neither Blair, Brown nor Cameron went on amazon or ebay and purchased 'foreigners' to be shipped to the UK.

Freedom of movement and labour is one of the fundamental principles behind the EU. And it's a blessing - it's allowed many of us to travel, work and live freely in continental Europe :)
szczecinianin 4 | 345
1 Dec 2013  #200
szczecinianin:
Sure you know some 'lazy' Brits. Have you never met their Polish equivalents? If not, then you don't really know Poland and Poles, do you.

Nope. Clearly we must just have different social circles and different experiences. That or one of us is a little bit xenophobic and trying to slag off Poles....

You obviously idealise Poles for some reason or other. Either you don't know that much about them or simply choose what to notice and what to ignore.

The UK does not 'import foreigners'! Neither Blair, Brown nor Cameron went on amazon or ebay and purchased 'foreigners' to be shipped to the UK.
Deadwood will always be deadwood, benefits or not.

I don't regard anyone as 'deadwood'. If you lost your ability to work would you be happy to be described as such?

Wouldn't you agree that it'd be better to welcomeour European brothers and sisters into the country and export all the scum to.... well, to anywhere that will take them?

I don't regard anyone as 'scum'.
bluesfan - | 85
1 Dec 2013  #201
You obviously idealise Poles for some reason or other.

Nope. I'd say the samer about Germans, Japanese, Czechs, Hungarians etc etc....

If you lost your ability to work would you be happy to be described as such?

Losing one's ability to work and choosing to defraud the welfare state are two very different things.
As a foreigner and an immigrant I would have expected you to be a little bit more intelligent and tolerant on the topic of immigration...

Either you don't know that much about them or simply choose what to notice and what to ignore.

Wrong again buddy. As I said before:

Clearly we must just have different social circles and different experiences. That or one of us is a little bit xenophobic and trying to slag off Poles....

szczecinianin 4 | 345
1 Dec 2013  #202
bluesfan:
Clearly we must just have different social circles and different experiences.

If that is true then your social circles and experiences must have been extremely limited.

A bit like me claiming to know the UK well, but never having met any chavs/unemployed/lazy/poorly educated people.
bluesfan - | 85
1 Dec 2013  #203
If that is true then your social circles and experiences must have been extremely limited.

What utter nonsense. We just work and and interact with different types of people.

A bit like me claiming to know the UK well, but never having met any chavs/unemployed/lazy/poorly educated people.

Again, my point is this: Why should these people have the right to live in the UK but not our European brothers and sisters, who are better educated and work harder?

I'm sure you wouldn't be happy if you received the same ignorant xenophobic abuse as an immigrant that some posters here say about Poles in the UK.
szczecinianin 4 | 345
1 Dec 2013  #204
szczecinianin:
If that is true then your social circles and experiences must have been extremely limited.

What utter nonsense. We just work and and interact with different types of people.

It isn't particularly difficult to find 'underclass' Polish people in Poland, just as it isn't particularly difficult to meet 'chavs' in the UK. If you are unaware of this, then either you don't know Poland, or else you (for whatever reason) choose not to notice such people.

Again, my point is this: Why should these people have the right to live in the UK

Why should British people have the right to live in Britain?

Because they are British, I'd imagine.

but not our European brothers and sisters, who are better educated and work harder?

I don't accept that our European brothers either (a) are better educated or (b) work harder. Presumably you have only ever met the tiny subset of Polish people who speak English well. Have you ever been to an 'Urząd' in Poland?

If you wish to meet the Polish underclass, if you come to my city I'm perfectly happy to direct you to places you would be likely to meet them. Have fun :)

I'm sure you wouldn't be happy if you received the same ignorant xenophobic abuse as an immigrant that some posters here say about Poles in the UK.

I haven't written any xenophobic abuse.

I've seen lots of abuse from yourself to your own people, however.

One of your arguments against British 'chavs' is their lack of knowledge of foreign languages. Do you speak any?
Wulkan - | 3,251
1 Dec 2013  #205
It isn't particularly difficult to find 'underclass' Polish people in Poland, just as it isn't particularly difficult to meet 'chavs' in the UK

truth

One of your arguments against British 'chavs' is their lack of knowledge of foreign languages.

that's almost entirely applies to all the white British people
szczecinianin 4 | 345
1 Dec 2013  #206
It does. White British people (generally) don't learn foreign languages because they don't need to. It isn't lack of ability or laziness, just lack of practical need.
Wroclaw Boy
1 Dec 2013  #207
I dont blame benefit scroungers for being as such, they usually have limited education so are only able to work crappy minimum wage labor jobs. Better off to stay on benefits, good on em.
Ironside 48 | 9,792
2 Dec 2013  #208
I haven't written any xenophobic abuse.

Unfortunately you have written a lot of non-cohesive opinion ranging from feeling, guesses and your opinion as thing should be.
I have noticed that many educed Brits have a real problem with a learned outlook at the world.
I mean what are we talking about here? Where is logic and order in this debate.
You engage in some heated exchange about alleged underclass in both countries. What it has to do with anything? I simply do not see connection.

You have turned on some kind of defensive mode which makes you posting nonsense.

I've seen lots of abuse from yourself to your own people, however.

After 20 years in Poland I would think that Poles are somewhat your people too.
szczecinianin 4 | 345
2 Dec 2013  #209
I have noticed that many educed Brits have a real problem with a learned outlook at the world.

Ah well, I will just have to learn to copy your calm, collected, erudite, rationality, I suppose.
Ironside 48 | 9,792
2 Dec 2013  #210
come on when it comes to immigration there is a lot of noise and any debate is being reduced to silly squabbling; people are talking either about evil foreigners and too much of them and some underclass in British society or about laziness as a leading characteristic of the British working class.

I expected you to do better than that. Sorry!
Also as rightly point out by blue you seem to lack empathy.


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