Are the working class in the UK now shunned in the 'new' Poland?

come on Seanus you know that is rubbish both parts of the country are growing richer, if you look at the stats there is less difference than you think.

Because that's what the media wants everyone to think over here, so they can justify their slave labour. If you honestly think every young and unemployed Brit wears designer's clothes then you couldn't be more wrong. If you honestly think they enjoy claiming benefits you need to get your head examined. You're right when you say that some people might not care about that much, but you should know that most guys and girls who are healthy actually do want to work.

I haven't been to a bar for ages, Zetigrek. (Just check the figures, and you'll see that most bar owners have seen their incomes drop by 45%) Because you can also see *that* on television, if you care to pay attention to all those little details which just don't add up if you put them in the bigger picture. I'm not mad at you, nor do I blame you for anything, but just don't make it sound like we're all spoiled brats who have done it to themselves completely. This might be true in some cases, but in most cases we simply lose our jobs due to undercutting and unfair policies. You should also keep in mind that with the zero-hour contracts that Amathyst was talking about earlier, you might earn *less* than someone who's claiming benefits. In other words, for some people it's not longer doable to work. So don't shoot the messenger and all that.

;)

Well yes. thats my ideas about british ppl.
Sorry I'm posting it again (Im know its not a good example of decent british citizen, and i dont want to be mean by that) but look at this liverpool girl:

...

she doesnt look poor even though she has a baby, her mother is single parent (I guess) and she's proud of living on a dole and losing all money on parties. Yes, this a message that average person in pl is receiving and u wonder then why poles want to emigrate from Poland.


But AJ you ARE NOT Brit! :)

It's more or less the same there as it is over here, which is why I'm speaking up for people who don't fit the description of a wealthy benefit claimer. (Regardless of where they're coming from.)

;)

Economic migration of cheap labour (not the highly skilled, specialised workers) is only good for the migrant (for a short time), and the employer...not for the country.

Sometimes the UK seems to be in the lead, racing to the 'bottom' in sourcing the cheapest labour from anywhere in the EU?
Maybe other EU countries are the same?
Whats the 'betting' that once the Polish workers become too expensive, another country with even cheaper labour will be allowed to join the EU club. Perhaps Turkey next?

Readers of this don't have to agree, it is not meant to be derogatory to anyone, this is just a discussion out of interest.

I'm afraid they are, more or less.


I don't know about Turkey, but I've already seen Romanians, Ukranians and Bulgarians here. Rumour has it they're actually offering cheaper labour than the Polish. I haven't seen too many of them yet, but something tells me that I will in the not-so-distant future.


I feel the same way, although I do think that it should worry atleast someone out there. Or does nobody care about the fact that we have a few hundred thousand young people in each of our countries who are jobless more often than not?

They can make more of such videos about a few children who are obviously too spoiled to be true, but it won't change the fact that most of the people who have to claim benefits actually do so out of necessity. I mean, they've been good enough before the temporary foreign workers came, haven't they? Did anyone complain about their work-ethics about fifteen years ago? Oh, and something else; If someone has to work for less money than someone who claims benefits actually recieves, then why should he or she be happy with his or her work at all? (Zero-hour contracts for example.) Maybe it's time we talked about demotivation aswell.

;)

This point is quite correct, and I am absolutely amazed, and disgusted that this is allowed to happen in the UK!!
Regardless of whether British or foreign workers are involved!
In fact it is not just Agencies that are doing this, but also recently some established UK Companies are now using this 'zero' hour contract 'loophole'.

In fact it was first brought to my attention by a friend a few months ago, who applied for a job
We all know times are meant to be 'tough', but what use is a 'zero' hour contract to anyone?
Nobody could plan their finances, or a future on such nonsense.
How is it allowed to continue in what is meant to be a 'fair', civilized country?

Very well said, its crazy when people so consistently fail to see this.


But it is true to a degree, i am sick over here in Ireland listening to people driving brand new 4wd Jeeps and going on holidays twice a year and claiming that they have no money,or people on the Dole with 6 children living on a gigantic social welfare and still crying that they are on the bread-line and that the Poles are robbing the country blind. They do not know(or seem to have forgotten) what it means to be broke or to be badly off. With the (Ireland)country practically bankrupt they will soon(very soon)

see what it means to live like a lot of other countrys in europe especially Poland.
The governments need to unerstand how-ever that "they" have a duty to rule their countries(and not the indusrialist) and not just to play games of swapping cheap-labour as it is only a short term solution and it will only lead to REAL chaos in the near future.

well first Poland go bankrupt and we will see what it means to live like in Africa... (sorry I have a black humor today)

very true..
I visit Poland several times a year and i am amazed at the low standard of life there,and then you here all the spin about there being no recession in Poland compared to the rest of the world... Such b0llshit.

actually there was no recession in Poland. There has nothing changed in those previouse years. But the economists say that there is a thread of recession in Poland since next September.

From what I hear, everything is pretty perfect in Poland at present. This is the verdict from 'non tax paying' Poles that I have contact, and work with sometimes.

They all seem to have private health care, and tend to ridicule the British National Health system.
Many say, after every few weeks when they go home, new roads and buildings are springing up 'all over'.
They barely recognise how modern their country has become!
I think they mostly talk about the West of Poland, they seldom mention the East at all.
In fact they have said that the UK now looks like the old decaying communist buildings of the past many years ago in Poland.
I haven't been to Poland for a few years, so they could well be correct?

It's been going on for years. Zero hour contracts are nothing new in the UK.

Incidentally, they're illegal in Poland.

I think they've just mustnt like you... loads of rubbish they told u... but in the other hand there is big change in infrastructure and overal look of big cities since 2002.

I remember when was in warsaw in 2003 and the next time in 2008. I couldnt believe its the same city!
But those guys u mentioned... well just let them alone, they are stupidos.

Hey at least when our little wh(res get pregnant - they dont pretend its anything more than promiscuity at its worst..unlike in Poland where they say they were playing sun moon and stars..WTFITAA? At least our lot can blame it on being drunk and not lying on the playground floor leggs a kimbo for anyone who wants ago!


No it has not...Dont even lie...Its only the last couple of years...If you say otherwise, I will produce evident to the contary..not tonight, but will on Monday when I speak to friends in recruitment! BTW, they dont use such contracts, but they know agencies that do out of their field of recruitment!

Oh, never heard about that game, how do you play it? :o

There's a topic on here that covers it..never heard of it myself either..but aparently is popular in schools in Poland as well as selling yourself for a cheap phone to the lowest bidder at the nearest Galleria

Amathyst how wbout that 13-years old father?

Maybe u mean sun or star?
Btw the sun or star turn out to be an urban legend. Those girls suffers pretty much living in small town where such gossip has spread. They are in different age, babies have been conceived in different times, they attending different schools, they have own boyfriends and nothing is conneting those girls... besides a disgusting urban legend.

Amathyst how would you feel in shoes of those girls? By such post you have just proved that u are really limited person. Yelling but not even a bit insightful.

Sorry to say that but there are such stereotypes of British ppl. Blame your own media who produce such awful reality shows, which show drunk British lads, spoiled British youth and snobbish British young adults. Thats all I have to say.

Amen


The native stopped paying for quality a long time ago and demands cheap products. The race to the bottom started a long time ago.


what's that sponsoring thing I keep hearing about?

From talkin to Polish people over the years, I get the opinion that during communism people still maintaind their class divide. Everyone may have had the same pay but the working class were still identifiable by their lack of education and lack of interest in the finer things in life.

Today the country is still a bit communist in relation to wages for the majority so maybe by bragging about their qualifications, the middle class can find an angle to maintain their dignity and moral high ground, even hough they may earn a quarter of what they would get in the west for flipping burgers. Maybe Poland is still communist as the majority are still poor.

Most likely same trend is manifesting in Poland as in much of Western world, and especially in the United States...This would be the 'consumer society'...But there is another aspect to this trend that could be called 'feminization' of society.

Hopefully Poland still has manufacturing base left, and if leadership is intelligent, it will seek to upgrade and modernize manufacturing...A society that gives itself over to 'service economy' i.e. financial sector administration, 'leisure economy', is dooming itself...Asian economies still strong because of manufacturing.

A nation or people must produce and create, not just consume...This is a basic law of nature...If one just consumes, then the result is life out of balance.

As to feminization, here I refer to phenomena of destroying occupations that are natural to men, building, inventing, active creation of things necessary for functioning of society in the material sense...Women are productive too, but in a more fundamental sense, that of bearing children and keeping the human race going.

This does not mean that women cannot be creative in other ways...Not at all...But, as jobs traditionally performed by men are eliminated by social planners, men are left with nothing constructive to do.

You see this phenomena in the USA, with the gradual erosion of productive base, and the switch to a more feminized economy of service, 'administration' etc...Real unemployment in USA is probably close to 25%...Not a healthy situation...The energy of men is then channeled toward military activity, police activity, acting as security guards, and sports (although this is mostly in a voyeuristic way)...Once proud US military is now merely a security force for trans-national corporations and financial interests...For men who do not directly participate in such 'jobs' there are always video games that simulate 'action'.

Finally, in the simplest sense, the result of this is the 'Yuppie culture' which revels in such consumerism like a pig in s**t...They are overjoyed at not getting hands dirty doing actual work, or, indeed, having to think about anything except spending and consuming.

There is more, but enough for now.

I suppose, if you run an online "business" that isn't registered in Poland (hello, Urzad Skarbowy, I'd like to make a report...) and which isn't successful at all, I suppose you can expect to earn 1/4th of the amount in Western Europe.

I miss your point... is this about me or something??