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Are Polish people importing a new wave of ancient racism into the UK?


NorthMancPolak 4 | 648
24 Jun 2010 #61
The British history of genocide and plain mass murder around the world are not a good reason for Poles to accept the same suicidal, path that the great British people is now following.

There's no reason for most British people to follow that path, either. Very few people alive today could be blamed for any involvement in black slavery, and especially not those of us born here of of Polish origin.

Google "Polish involvement black slavery" and see what you find - nothing. Change "Polish" to certain other search terms, and you'll find an encyclopaedia full of links. Unfortunately, those links will include "English", but it's all a long time ago now, and reparations have been paid by Western countries, in the form of billions of pounds of aid, etc. But I'm still waiting for apologies and reparations from Arabs who enslaved blacks when the English were still living in houses made with wattle and daub :)

Besides, the UK wasn't built on black slavery to anywhere near the extent that the USA was; most UK blacks were asked to come here to work after WWII, not brought here as free labour several centuries ago.

It is true that many American blacks may have worked as slaves in the American cotton fields, at the same time as hundreds of thousands of white Britons were forced into working 15 hours a day/six days a week in Lancashire's cotton mills. Yet these British barely had enough to live on, despite the hours, and were abused, assaulted or punished severely for non-compliance. At the same time, Bradford's woolcombers were working similar hours, in even worse conditions, for similar rates of pay, and had an average life expectancy of eighteen years old! If that isn't also slavery, if not legalised genocide, I don't know what is.

This went on for two centuries before any significant Black or South Asian immigration began. But there are no "reparations" for the families of those British workers, and never will be. And no-one can seriously claim these mill workers "profited" from this trade, whether that trade was driven by the produce of black cotton-picking slaves, or not - only a tiny minority of rich, powerful people profited, and their descendants are probably still the only ones profiting from the former slave trade.

Poland wasn't involved in black slavery, and owes Africa nothing. It is only a corrupt EU agenda which is forcing them to feel guilty and making them accept Africans. Maybe someone would like to explain why "multiculturalism" is only being imposed on European countries? I don't see much "enriching" or "diversity" in most Asian or African countries.
cheehaw 2 | 263
24 Jun 2010 #62
I doubt the EU guilt is genuine.

A lot of these foreigners are quite accustomed to really poor living conditions. They are often de-humanized to an extent and they really do not think like you do. They have seen war, they have lived it.. They do kill for Nike sneakers.

Polish culture needs this, according to the EU. America needs it too, Britain, Germany.. people who have no idea what the term 'civil rights' means... among many other things.

Especially, it would be good for these foreigners to vote in your elections, according to the EU and IMF.

Gosh, how on earth could the african lands be mined if all these people were still there? They cannot just kill everyone over there, the world would be in uproar. The world accepts small scale genocide, that's all. One or 3 million dead seems ok, and past that people get anxious. But imagine if diamond mine workers really demanded to get paid for a days work. Imagine if central american workers unionized and demanded a fair wage? .. it would no longer be lucrative to build factories in Mexico or Africa or Asia if workers everywhere demanded fair wages and fair pay for their lands which the merchants desire. It is not in the corporations' greedy self interest to pay anyone anything. So that type of thinking does not work, for them, and you have to learn to think like they need you to think.. And unless the polish people are reduced to same way of thinking, the slave wage way of thinking, like a drone worker bee... the EU won't succeed either, because it is not just the European Union, it is an economic union. Rarely is a large american or british corporation (with investors worldwide), brought to justice, because they own the politicians.

It's not really that black people in large numbers are dangerous.. but it's the de-humanization process, which many of them have been through as a result of war, that is dangerous. Dumping bunches of these people on Poland would surely have a positive effect, in the eyes if the EU and IMF.

I think the corporations will only be happy when we are all slaves. And if they cannot do it via low wages they will do it via taxes. Far as I can tell, most of the world thinks of Poland as backward still. My grandparents were brought to this country as low wage workers, east european slavs. slaves. Lucky for them, they were about to experience the unionization of much of the american workforce. And so they did ok, because they fought for higher wages instead of accepting a bag of peanuts at days end.

Of course we have seen the fight for workers rights disintegrate here the past 20 years. Thanks to NAFTA and a zillion Mexicans mainly. American blacks do not usually work for real low wages, they know better. My fear for Poland, is that the people are too gracious, too willing to be a part of something 'bigger' (EU) and they haven't taken the time to read between the lines. Wages in the USA have not risen since the introduction of NAFTA almost 20 years ago (wages have dropped in many places), while the cost of living has skyrocketed. Mexico is a drug ridden garbage dump.

I picked up a dvd movie a while back called 'Bordertown', filmed mainly in Juarez, Mexico. You should have a look, there are other good films and documentaries out there too.

and I saw this somewhere last week .. GOD = gold, oil, drugs. Appropriate for the religion of the world govt.
Amathyst 19 | 2,702
24 Jun 2010 #63
The black slaves were brought here mainly by British and Jewish merchants to work mainly British owned plantations.

It was an achievement to have a black servant (they were usually front of house), something to show off, they were treated better than their white counterparts (Im talking about the ones that came England btw)

cottontimes.co.uk/usindex.html

This is part of my cities history and something Im sooooo proud of.

Very few people alive today could be blamed for any involvement in black slavery

Actually none of us could :D

Multiracial Britain confuses Poles

If you bothered to read the article it was quite positive and all of those interviewed had good jobs and came across inteligent.

Some UK residents giving the poles a taste of their own medicine

lol and Im sure if a Catholic family opened a shop in a Protestant area you'd get the same shyt!

Do we need to discuss India and the British trading companies?

Would you like to discuss the amount of Indians that became mega rich off the back of their countrymen? Still are due to corporate investment from outside of India? Do you want to discuss the Indian railway which the British built which India couldnt survive without?
DariuszTelka 5 | 193
24 Jun 2010 #64
Looks like the slaves have become the masters here;

vimeo.com/12623919

Poland doesn't need this, and after watching a couple of hundred of videoes like this...you don't have to be an "uneducated" polish person to be against multiculturalism.

Dariusz
Seanus 15 | 19,706
24 Jun 2010 #65
Polish culture, for me, was meant to be pure. It's just the nature of the beast! They are homogeneous like the Borg and they don't need the social repair work like other homogeneous countries like Japan need.

That's my sociological analysis for the day :)
Trevek 26 | 1,702
24 Jun 2010 #66
Post-war soviet myth!
Poland has always been multicultural (as has japan). The cultures just weren't always as obvious.

Example, even around me: Germans, Ukrainians, Bialorussians... not hard to find Jews, Tartars, Russian Old Believers, Lemko, Hutsul, Boyko, Greek, Balkan
Seanus 15 | 19,706
24 Jun 2010 #67
Nope, it's MC Jim, but not as we know it, not as we know it ;) ;)

Sorry Trevek, but I've lived in both countries long enough to know that they don't fit the conventional perceptions of MC.

It's all a matter of scale.
Trevek 26 | 1,702
24 Jun 2010 #68
they don't fit the conventional perceptions of MC

Since when has Poland ever been conventional.

My point is that it may not be "Multicultural" but it is multi-cultural. Not homogenous in the idea of all in one box. Agreed, there is perhaps a dominant culture prevailing.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
24 Jun 2010 #69
Have you got a few hours? ;) ;)

Sorry, maybe my perception is distorted through living in the epicentre of conservatism but I still feel that Poland is a FAR cry from France, Germany and Britain when it comes to multiculturalism.
Trevek 26 | 1,702
25 Jun 2010 #70
Probably because those countries are multicultural from a history of being dominant colonial powers. The cultures in Poland are perhaps more 'homegrown'.

The thing is that for years Poland was portrayed as being 'the most mono-ethnic state in Europe' (Neal Ascherson, "The Struggles for Poland" and Chris Hann, an anthropologist, both make this point) but it was actually full of small cultures which both religiously and linguistically, as well as ethically, differed from the idealised image of Roman Catholic Polish. It wasn't until late 1990's that there was even a conference about it 9and a book) as many of these minorities had just kept their heads down.

OK, the cultures may not vary THAT much in many people's eyes (not the way a pakistani muslim and a little England CofE white person do) and I do get your point, but it is a mistake to think Poland is not multi-cultural in the sense of having different cultures.
Matowy - | 295
25 Jun 2010 #71
Somewhat on topic: I've seen a small community of what appear to be dark-skinned South Asians in my town, and I assumed them to be Asian and thought nothing of it. Then I heard them all speaking in a (somewhat strange) Polish dialect, interacting with the wider Polish community, and even walking around with Polish translators. I don't know how they fit in to Poland's ethnic/cultural monogomy, but I was amazed to find that such people could come from Poland.

For reference, I still don't know how they fit in with Poland. They might be gypsies, but they look more like first generation Indians as opposed to a distant generation. One of the women who caught my eye a few times has the really distinguishable Polka eye shape, though.
Trevek 26 | 1,702
25 Jun 2010 #72
the epicentre of conservatism

Gliwice is one of the places where many Lemko people were sent during Akcja Wisła (1947).
Plus, there might even be a few Germans still lurking...
The secret multi-cultures...

They might be gypsies, but they look more like first generation Indians

Gypsies in some parts of Europe look extremely Indian. maybe that's why the Polish seemed strange... maybe it isn't Polish. If they need translators they might be Gypsies from elsewhere (Romania, perhaps?)
Amathyst 19 | 2,702
25 Jun 2010 #73
and I am not convinced that the thinking of the 'privileged' class has changed very much in 100 years.

I did actually say that it was the working classes that improved things the privileged were quite happy with the peasants being feable minded fools working in the mills and fields for very little in return.

I'd like to see a wealthy neighborhood invite somalian refugees to live with them.

It'll never happen. their tolerance advice, is only for you and I.

Most wealthy people arent actually tolerent, in fact never met one that pretends to be, the lower middle class, hug a tree are quite different though.
Matowy - | 295
25 Jun 2010 #74
I find it kind of funny as a matter of fact, that so much of the stuff we can read, historically, things that were written in the mid and late 1800's. when Great Britain was a major influence on the 'intellectual' world.. but these works are mainly the work of the privileged classes and their cohorts.

Pretty much all of the literature from that era was written by the upper classes. It's only until the World War that the class lines begin to blur, and the upper classes would openly mingle with the lower and write about the experience. In a way it was a shared experience, they both experienced the same things in the war, but only the upper classes were able to write about it (the lower too, as by this time education had picked up, but it was mostly just letters and diaries).
cheehaw 2 | 263
25 Jun 2010 #75
I'm not real big on tree huggers either. Here and there that ideology is used to steal land from people. Eminent domain for parks etc only makes more landless and homeless peasants. Plus they use these 'environmental' ideas to make the general populace feel guilty about pollution etc. and then they use this stuff to make regulations that put working people out of business.

Problem is, most pollution is caused by big factories. eg; The privileged classes who profit.

In australia there is a big fight going on about the carbon footprint of cattle. cattle poo and farts. Seems people have decided that the symbiotic relationship humans have enjoyed with herds of cattle since the beginning of time, is now wrong. So anyway, about 50% of australia's ranch land (A LOT) and open range will no longer be allowed to be grazed. That means, the people who own that land and intended to graze cattle can no longer support their families. They will be unemployed as dictated by the govt.

Of course, great big oil spills all over the planet can be overlooked. This is not a carbon footprint apparently.

I am trying to figure out why i need to pay taxes to supposedly pay to cleanup after private corporations.

but back on topic, since polish people rarely encountered blacks in ancient times, I don't think this could possibly be ancient racism, if it even exists.
Matowy - | 295
25 Jun 2010 #76
polish people rarely encountered blacks in ancient times

Then one must ponder where it is that the Polish hatred for blacks comes from, because it is undeniably present and extreme.
cheehaw 2 | 263
25 Jun 2010 #77
I think it's the poverty and all that goes with it, truthfully.

When people have nothing or very little to lose, the crime rate soars. I think a lot of Poles found themselves in that situation a couple decades ago. Which is also why a lot of Brits do not like Poles from what i understand. Poverty, and all that goes with it.

For sure if most blacks drove bmw's (not just the drug dealers), the poles would most likely run after them with flowers.
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
25 Jun 2010 #78
When people have nothing or very little to lose, the crime rate soars. I think a lot of Poles found themselves in that situation a couple decades ago. Which is also why a lot of Brits do not like Poles from what i understand. Poverty, and all that goes with it.

What are you talking about?

For sure if most blacks drove bmw's (not just the drug dealers), the poles would most likely run after them with flowers.

You just can't help being a racist, can't you?
cheehaw 2 | 263
25 Jun 2010 #79
I think you misinterpret honesty for racism most of the time.

Do me a favor, walk around your little countryside. tell me how many nice homes (NICE homes not just any old shack) you see occupied by whites and how many you see occupied by blacks.

Then do this, count how many upper middle class black neighborhoods you've got within several nearby towns. Count how many are totally white upper middle class neighborhoods, and how many are mixed.

Then get back to me with your racist answer.

I lived in Richmond VA several years. Richmond is 80% black. But there is not one single black upper middle class neighborhood in Richmond.

Lots of working class black neighborhoods though. Very few actual slums in town, only 1 really, a section of several blocks. Hard working people, good neighbors. Neighborhoods a lot like the one I grew up in. Richmond has a huge drug problem. It's why we left. Not a good environment for the kids.

I have seen many white ghettos in my lifetime (more of these than any other), many black ghettos, spanish, cuban, whatever.

I have yet to stumble upon an entire upper class black neighborhood.. only sprinklings of blacks in a few these areas.

So anyway, that is your assignment get to it. Your opinions need a touch of reality.

I guess this is the end of the thread since you showed up.
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
25 Jun 2010 #80
I lived in Amsterdam, a place infested with blacks :)

I never felt unsafe, sweetie, never :)
ShawnH 8 | 1,507
25 Jun 2010 #81
a place infested with blacks :)

you mean culturally enhanced with.... Don't you?
Seanus 15 | 19,706
25 Jun 2010 #82
Trevek, they are pretty much underground. OK, back to the thread.
Trevek 26 | 1,702
25 Jun 2010 #83
I think it is quite possible that central and east europeans are bringing a form of racism into UK simply because, as we've seen, the concept of a multi-ethnic state like UK is unusual for them. However, it is interesting that a lot of racism in UK also comes from immigrants themselves. The fact a Sikh was the first 'ethnic' to join BNP is rather telling. Likewise, I have heard of non-white racism against and between other non-white groups (Africans and Asians).

A few years ago I read in a British newspaper produced and aimed at the Black (afro-carribean) community that allowing huge waves of new EU nationals into UK was deliberate attempt to "re-whiten UK".

The rhetoric on both sides is similar, isn't it?
SzwedwPolsce 11 | 1,595
25 Jun 2010 #84
I have heard of non-white racism against and between other non-white groups (Africans and Asians).

it is interesting that a lot of racism in UK also comes from immigrants themselves.

One of the most common forms of racism in most European countries with a lot of minorities.

But different minorities being racist toward each other is nothing people talk about.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
25 Jun 2010 #85
Nice points, Trevek. This has happened in different places, notably Africa and America. People turn against their own. Poles turn against their own too, though that is not a race-related issue.

Simple minds produce simple thoughts so I can well imagine some of those young buffoons poking fun at coloured folk. We can do without those types.
Trevek 26 | 1,702
25 Jun 2010 #86
But different minorities being racist toward each other is nothing people talk about.

Of course not, because only the host nation could possibly be racist.

We can do without those types.

That's true.
Miguel Colombia - | 351
25 Jun 2010 #87
Most of the people against Muslims here in Germany actually happen to be immigrants. They think muslims ruin the image of foreigners in Europe and therefore are to be disliked.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
25 Jun 2010 #88
And how about Italian-Portuguese-Colombian people in Germany? ;) ;) Do they see the Sephardic Jew within? ;) ;)

... this is despicable! Britain had a problem with this many years ago. I remember watching an Aberdeen Vs Rangers match at Pittodrie and Mark Walters was really singled out for being black. I felt like punching some of those that were saying those things, there's just no call for it.

a fresh and tragic event. Only 1 month old.
Trevek 26 | 1,702
25 Jun 2010 #89
Most of the people against Muslims here in Germany actually happen to be immigrants. They think muslims ruin the image of foreigners in Europe and therefore are to be disliked.

I've read articles in UK where Pakistani and Asian muslims have been critical of Somalis and objected to them worshipping in the same Mosque. I don't know how widespread it is but it's interesting.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
25 Jun 2010 #90
They probably don't want to be taken hostage, Trevek ;) ;)

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