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Missing Polish woman found murdered in Chesterton, UK


Captain Scarlet 3 | 34
19 Jun 2010  #1
news.bbc

A 25-year-old Polish man has appeared in court charged with murdering a mother who was reported missing earlier this month.

Piotr Moczulski, of Newgale Walk, Leamington Spa, Warwickshire, has been charged with the murder of Elzbieta Kinczyk, 23, who lived in the town.

Magistrates at Nuneaton remanded him in custody and he was ordered to appear at Warwick Crown Court on 22 June.

A body found at Chesterton has yet to be formally identified.

Rip
plk123 8 | 4,150
20 Jun 2010  #2
but i there doesn't seem to be any evidence linking the man to this woman.. at least it's not stated in the article.. hmm

scottie1113

did you have a point? this thread is well within the means of this area.. polonia UK.. this happened in UK and involves polonia.. you can't be that slow, can you?
scottie1113 7 | 898
20 Jun 2010  #3
Obviously I am. So please explain to me why this thread was originated.
plk123 8 | 4,150
20 Jun 2010  #4
re-read my last post mr. dolt
Patrycja19 63 | 2,700
20 Jun 2010  #5
but i there doesn't seem to be any evidence linking the man to this woman.

I seen that too, so how can they even keep him in custody if he didnt say he did it, only that that are accusing him, unless he confessed to something

they forgot to write in the news.
plk123 8 | 4,150
20 Jun 2010  #6
not sure if one is innocent until found guilty in uk.. in many eu countries one is guilty until they can prove their innocence..
Patrycja19 63 | 2,700
20 Jun 2010  #7
not sure if one is innocent until found guilty in uk..

what do they have to find him guilty of though?

there isnt really much to the story, maybe they dont release all the information in the UK ? the story itself doesnt sound right.. they cant hold him for doing nothing unless they are interrogating him and that shouldnt be news until he confesses
plk123 8 | 4,150
20 Jun 2010  #8
what do they have to find him guilty of though?

they don't have to find him guilty, just accuse him of murder, in this case.. he has to prove his innocence.. but that is a MAYBE as i don't know how the justice system work in the UK.. that is how it works in PL and other european countries, however.
Patrycja19 63 | 2,700
20 Jun 2010  #9
just accuse him of murder, in this case.. he has to prove his innocence.

this scares me, cause if this is true, then anyone can be picked out of a crowd, sort of like the salem witch hunt, they call out the name and that was it for them..

so what if this guy is her boyfriend, he just dropped her off , someone was watching and went right behind him and murdered her, meanwhile this guys walking home or driving home unaware that his girl is in trouble and they accuse him, so this scenario can happen and how would someone prove innocence with the circumstance's as they are where he couldnt prove he just dropped her off and thats it because he was with her..

hmmmm food for thought.. I hope this isnt the case.
plk123 8 | 4,150
20 Jun 2010  #10
this scares me, cause if this is true, then anyone can be picked out of a crowd, sort
of like the salem witch hunt, they call out the name and that was it for them..

yuppers.. but normally the arrest happens because the authorities have "good" reason for it.. but yes, scary and i believe it can be kind of easy to make a mistake..
Mister H 10 | 759
20 Jun 2010  #11
Is there a point to this thread? I sure don't see one.

One way or another quite a few Polish people visiting/living in the UK seem to end up dead, so I would have thought that was worthy of discussion.
Matowy - | 295
20 Jun 2010  #12
hmmmm food for thought.. I hope this isnt the case.

It gets even worse. The UK has some sort of deal with the U.S which means that anyone can be arrested without a charge or evidence, and can be extradited to a U.S prison, without charge or evidence.
PolskaDoll 28 | 2,105
20 Jun 2010  #13
not sure if one is innocent until found guilty in uk.

That's the case.

The person in the dock is innocent until the prosecution provides sufficient evidence for the defendant to be found guilty. To find someone guilty the evidence must show that they are guilty beyond reasonable doubt, if there is not enough evidence to do that then the defendant should be found not guilty. Or I think in Scotland the case can be found 'not proven' as well.
1jola 14 | 1,879
20 Jun 2010  #14
The person in the dock is innocent until the prosecution provides sufficient evidence for the defendant to be found guilty.

Clearly, it is an inefficient and burdensome system. The communists had a much better system - give us a person and we'll find an appropriate paragraph that fits perfectly. Then it was just a formality. How backward the British system can be, with wigs and all.
Patrycja19 63 | 2,700
21 Jun 2010  #15
How backward the British system can be,

agree, how can they even hold him without evidence and it didnt state any in the
article, so did they just pick him at random, or was he the last person to see her
alive?

It gets even worse. The UK has some sort of deal with the U.S which means that anyone can be arrested without a charge or evidence, and can be extradited to a U.S prison, without charge or evidence.

ha ha funny.
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
21 Jun 2010  #16
without evidence

How do you know that? If they arrested him, surely there must be some link between him and the victim. They're not just go arrest ppl ad random, you know. The article doesn't mention any evidence indeed, but it also doesn't mention that they DON'T have evidence. So we don't know.

>^..^<

M-G (haec hactenus)
PolskaDoll 28 | 2,105
21 Jun 2010  #17
agree, how can they even hold him without evidence

They've arrested and charged him and remanded him in custody until his court appearance which means they've enough evidence to go to court. So they must have had evidence enough to pick him up too.
Patrycja19 63 | 2,700
22 Jun 2010  #18
but it also doesn't mention that they DON'T have evidence. So we don't know.

true, cant argue that, I just find it strange that they would even publish that
without saying they had found something..

like he was wearing clothing with her blood on it, dna tests?
he was with her last, perhaps he is ex boyfriend, something to that nature.
PolskaDoll 28 | 2,105
22 Jun 2010  #19
Why on Earth would they publish the evidence they had to the general public?
Amathyst 19 | 2,702
22 Jun 2010  #20
they don't have to find him guilty, just accuse him of murder, in this case.. he has to prove his innocence.. but that is a MAYBE as i don't know how the justice system work in the UK.. that is how it works in PL and other european countries, however.

We most certainly do not work that way - a man has to be proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt in the UK.

not sure if one is innocent until found guilty in uk

innocent until proven otherwise, but we are all aware that if evidence is strong enough, they can remand him until a trial date has been set, if they deem him to be a danger to society (murderers usually are :D )

BTW England isnt some backwater, they must have something on him to have warranted keeping him in for questioning.

Clearly, it is an inefficient and burdensome system.

Clearly our system isnt the one that's backwards - rather than shoot first and ask questions later - we prefer a civilised approach.

How backward the British system can be, with wigs and all.

LOL..Is that the best you can do? Maybe you lot should stop exporting your murderers, thieves and rapists and we wouldn't have to use our "backwards" British system on them which allows them free legal aid, translators and if they are guilty, food and lodgings for a few years with the option to gain a degree!
OP Captain Scarlet 3 | 34
22 Jun 2010  #21
Ofcourse the Polish system is perfect , they even let criminals flee the country .

Since Poland joined the EU in 2004, hundreds who were facing court hearings have fled to disappear among Britain's huge community of around 600,000 Poles.
In 2007, the Met's Extradition Unit was asked to trace 257 Polish suspects. A total of 135 were sent home on commercial flights - at a cost to the Met of £300,000.

The huge cost led to a Polish military plane being used instead. At first the flights were monthly, but this has now become a fortnightly, or in 'peak periods' weekly, flight.

The number of criminals extradited from Britain to Poland is expected to treble under a new European police forces information sharing-scheme that is estimated will cost Britain an extra £17million in administration fees alone.

Since April last year, the Met alone received 210 extradition requests from Poland.
In 2009, Britain extradited a total of 516 offenders to other countries after receiving 3,526 arrest warrants from foreign governments.
A Home Office spokesman said: 'The European Arrest Warrant plays a vital role in ensuring that those who attempt to evade justice by crossing a border within the EU are quickly brought to justice.'
Patrycja19 63 | 2,700
23 Jun 2010  #22
Why on Earth would they publish the evidence they had to the general public?

same as they did with van der sloot whos all over the TV and the only reason they didnt get him in hollaway case the first time is lack of evidence.

now that hes talking deals. least what is the truth ( if he doesnt keep changing his story)

in the story above, it just says he is accused of killing her but..... in the article is says-Officers are continuing to appeal for witnesses who saw anything so no witnesses, they dont even have the body identified yet, and they are holding this guy to the murder??

Van der sloot was the last one with hollaway so it kinda gives you something there, all the sudden she is missing and hes denying he did anything, but yet shes no where to be found, and he had several different stories and hes seen leaving on camera and this guy they are accusing of murder, theres nothing.

looks like some shady shyt to me..

I hope they find her killer, but it dont sound like hes the one. I guess its a wait and see what happens.
plk123 8 | 4,150
23 Jun 2010  #23
Why on Earth would they publish the evidence they had to the general public?

they don't have to be specific but here in the US they always at least mention some of the evidence they are using to hold a suspect on..

innocent until proven otherwise, but we are all aware that if evidence is strong enough, they can remand him until a trial date has been set, if they deem him to be a danger to society (murderers usually are :D )

BTW England isnt some backwater, they must have something on him to have warranted keeping him in for questioning.

ok, so that works like it does in the US..

BTW.. how am i supposed to know.. US dumped UK for a better life so one could assume some of the goings on over there may be a bit backwards, no? ;) :D
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
23 Jun 2010  #24
they even let criminals flee the country

I find this very disturbing, to be honest.

>^..^<

M-G (grumpy)
bimber94 7 | 254
23 Jun 2010  #25
British police are not unknown to take the lazy, easy option, not allowing anything silly like common sense and evidence to get in the way. Just look at the way they handled the Colin Stagg case. They eventually had to "apologise unreservedly" on TV.
OP Captain Scarlet 3 | 34
23 Jun 2010  #26
they dont even have the body identified yet, and they are holding this guy to the murder??

She worked in the Uk and provided for her husband and child back in Poland so i guess they're waiting for her husband to arrive and identify her ? According to local gossip and i stress it is gossip she worked with the accused and she ended their relationship ?? Anyway a sad turn of events all said and done .
PolskaDoll 28 | 2,105
24 Jun 2010  #27
same as they did with van der sloot whos all over the TV and the only reason they didnt get him in hollaway case the first time is lack of evidence.

Yeah that has been a total cock-up. Not the UK though (thankfully).

in the article is says-Officers are continuing to appeal for witnesses who saw anything

so no witnesses, they dont even have the body identified yet, and they are holding this guy to the murder??

They probably have some witnesses and evidence but they'll want more and as much as they can possibly get. Better to have 10 witnesses saying one thing rather than just the first one they find. It all helps towards a conviction.

As for the ID - they'll know who she is for sure but it's required here to have a formal identification made by a NOK or similar.

In the case of Elzbieta Kinczyk, they wouldn't have arrested the guy having no evidence but they really don't publish what that evidence is in the press. A press release will likely just say someone has been arrested in the case of whatever the crime was and maybe when they'll first appear in court. The police here only release a bit of evidence info if it's going to help them by doing so. Otherwise they keep it close to their chests. Usually most things come out at the court case.


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