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Job interview - recruitment process in the UK


peter_olsztyn 6 | 1,098
17 Dec 2016  #1
a few questions how recruitment process works in the UK

Do recruiters believe in what you are saying, declare, what you have in cv or they believe in nothing and you are from country where white bears live on the streets and you live in the yurta?

how references work? One of you best employees insolently escapes westward and you give him positive references?

if you worked 5 years on black as a bricklayer. Do you have experience or not?
Observvver
17 Dec 2016  #2
It is very foolish to lie on an application, as it is often easy to find out, but many people try. If you do lie, it's a risk because you will be sacked later even for a small lie, and get a bad reference. Recruiters believe a cv, but will want some evidence (documents of qualifications, two written references from recent/last employer). Basically, just be honest and be confident but do not exaggerate - if English is not your first language then it will be easy to detect exaggeration. With almost a million Poles in the UK, employers and agencies are very familiar with the sort of experience and qualifications to expect from Poles. If you are honest, even for something not strictly official (is this what you mean by 'in black'?) employers will appreciate it and trust you, so long as it has no illegal consequences in the UK.
OP peter_olsztyn 6 | 1,098
18 Dec 2016  #3
Basically, just be honest and be confident but do not exaggerate

what does it mean exaggerate?

employers and agencies are very familiar with the sort of experience and qualifications to expect from Poles

Are they aware of that we Poles are people|handymen of many skills due of necessity avoid cost of car mechanic, plumber, carpenter? Or is it percived as lie?

I worked in PL as an Electrician for 7 years. Of course a don't have 17 edition. Do I have some experience? 10% 20% or 0%

To be honest some of their questions are very close to offend me. I'm almost 50 yo and have SOME experience for sure.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,671
18 Dec 2016  #4
I worked in PL as an Electrician for 7 years. Of course a don't have 17 edition.

well if you want to work as an electrician in the UK, I suggest you get 17th edition...
OP peter_olsztyn 6 | 1,098
18 Dec 2016  #5
I know it very clearly but I have to start somewhere. Someone has to trust me in the first job. Of course I'm not going to turn the power on or sign any paperwork for customers but I feel I can fit the cables.
Observvver
18 Dec 2016  #6
You cannot expect to be given a job as an electrician if you are not adequately qualified to recognised standards. In the UK it is even illegal to do the electrics in your own home unless you have a professional qualification. They take health and safety extremely seriously, especially in larger companies, there is no cutting corners as the lawyers would have their balls for breakfast!

I don't know much about the industry standards, but you might be best to do a course to get the required qualification. If you already have the skills, but not the piece of paper, then you should find it easy - consider it an investment.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,671
18 Dec 2016  #7
I feel I can fit the cables

lol well I am sorry but 'feeling' that you could fit the cables is not really enough. This is why there are jokes about Polish electricians...

as observver said, go ahead and get the qualification if you have the skills, it should be easy for you.
Check out some FE colleges.
OP peter_olsztyn 6 | 1,098
18 Dec 2016  #8
Fortunately I'm Electronics Technician too and I hope it save my soul ;)

Maybe someone knows what is the proffession Wireman?

google says (Electrical Engineering) chiefly US a person who installs and maintains electric wiring, cables, etc
is it that strict in the UK as Electrician?
OP peter_olsztyn 6 | 1,098
18 Dec 2016  #9
lol well I am sorry but 'feeling' that you could fit the cables is not really enough.

if I'm correct there is an independent profession in the UK Cable Fitter
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,671
18 Dec 2016  #10
oh well go for it if you want to...

totaljobs.com/jobs/cable-fitter
Observvver
18 Dec 2016  #11
nationalcareersservice.direct.gov.uk/job-profiles/electrician

electricalqualifications.com/electricaladulttraining.html

I think electrician is particularly tough, as it's very highly regulated in the UK. It's one of those jobs where you really do need the right qualifications. Do you have Polish qualifications that could be treated as tranferable (i.e. the same, or a substitute)?
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,671
18 Dec 2016  #12
the skills from Poland are not really transferable as such but my ex husband lied that he used to be an electrican in Poland (in fact he had been a cable puller) and managed to get onto some kind of conversion course and work as an electrician in the UK.

Of course now he just works on the black doing jobs for friends and friends of friends,so that he doesn't have to pay child support. So I don't suppose his qualifications are up to date (they do need updating every couple of years).

that is why there are jokes about Polish electricians, because of people like him.
mafketis 20 | 7,169
18 Dec 2016  #13
he just works on the black

Is this an expression in the UK? I've seen it twice in this thread and never before in my life.

The meaning is clear enough in context, but... weird.
peterweg 36 | 2,316
18 Dec 2016  #14
It is.

Black Money is a term used in Spain, India, US

investopedia.com/terms/b/black-economy.asp
Chemikiem 6 | 1,916
18 Dec 2016  #15
what does it mean exaggerate?

In the context of applying for a job, to say that you have more experience and qualifications than you actually do.

how references work?

Most jobs require 2 references, one will be from your last employer. The other should really be from someone who knows you in a professional capacity, but it depends on the employer. I have recently given 2 references for Poles applying for care home jobs, but I stated on the forms I was sent that I knew these people as long term friends. Both of them got the jobs. Basically they want to know if you are trustworthy and reliable.

Are they aware of that we Poles are people|handymen of many skills due of necessity avoid cost of car mechanic, plumber, carpenter? Or is it percived as lie?

Not necessarily perceived as a lie, but to work in any of those jobs in the UK, you need qualifications to back it up, unless you have been taken on as an apprentice where you learn on the job.

Is this an expression in the UK

I've heard it before but from talking to Poles. They also use 'under the table' to mean the same thing.
In England we would be more likely to say cash jobs or cash in hand. Just means you avoid paying tax and National Insurance.
peterweg 36 | 2,316
18 Dec 2016  #16
As an employee I cannot understand why someone would do it, you are also beholden to anyone who may shop you for the reward. As an employer the situation is even worst, as you would be liable to the back taxes, penalties and pay up to minimum wage.

The there is the danger of a jail sentence if any of the electrical work causes a problem.
mafketis 20 | 7,169
18 Dec 2016  #17
Black Money is a term used in Spain, India, US

I've never heard black economy, but I have heard of the grey economy, black economy suggests the black market which is something different.

I've heard it before but from talking to Poles. They also use 'under the table' to mean the same thing.

I was first thinking it was a literal translation of 'na czarno' the standard way of referring to that kind of work in Polish. There's also 'na lewo' (on the left) but I don't think people use it much anymore, it might have been a loan from Russian.

In the US I think 'off the books' is the most common. 'under the table' is maybe more about corruption (paying an official to do or not do their job).

"Cash in hand" suggests legal work without benefits (a thing in the US, not sure about the UK).
Chemikiem 6 | 1,916
18 Dec 2016  #18
As an employee I cannot understand why someone would do it

Because if you can't get a job legally ( for whatever reason ) and you need money and the offer is there, many people would take the chance.

you are also beholden to anyone who may shop you for the reward

Most people would keep quiet about it if they had sense. Not that I'm advocating people should work illegally in the UK.

As an employer the situation is even worst, as you would be liable to the back taxes, penalties and pay up to minimum wage.

Yes, employers would be prosecuted if found out.

The there is the danger of a jail sentence if any of the electrical work causes a problem.

Doesn't bear thinking about what could go wrong. No-one unqualified should be working with electrics.

"Cash in hand" suggests legal work without benefits (a thing in the US, not sure about the UK).

No, it's illegal in the UK as you are not paying tax/NI, but if for example you are a tradesman doing jobs off the books for friends, and friends of friends for example, it would be quite difficult to prove. If large building firms do this for example, much higher chance of being caught.
mafketis 20 | 7,169
18 Dec 2016  #19
No, it's illegal in the UK as you are not paying tax/NI,

No, I mean legal work that's taxed but has no benefits whatsoever (no sick days, or paid vacation, no access to health insurance, stuff like that). I had a part time job like that for a time as a student and a friend once worked at a law firm on that basis (her hourly was pretty high so it worked for her).
Chemikiem 6 | 1,916
18 Dec 2016  #20
I mean legal work that's taxed but has no benefits whatsoever (no sick days, or paid vacation, no access to health insurance, stuff like that).

Oh I see. To be honest, at least as far as i know, health insurance as a benefit isn't as common here as it is in the states. Paid vacation varies depending on employer, and I have known friends employed in certain jobs, being made to use up their holiday entitlement, if they have been sick.

But cash jobs in this country are illegal full stop. They are not taxed, and obviously have no benefits. Someone employed in one is basically working off the radar.
terri 1 | 1,620
18 Dec 2016  #21
The thing with working 'cash in hand' is that it is impossible to prove your earnings if EVER you have to claim any benefits. The first thing they will ask you 'what is your income?' and if you say 'nothing' , then they will assume that you are doing something illegal. They will then check your living situation, your bank records, everything. Unless you keep all the money earned under the mattress, have no debit/credit cards and live off someone else - they will question you. Better to have a part time official job so you can prove some income.
Observvver
18 Dec 2016  #22
>But cash jobs in this country are illegal full stop.

Not quite. You can do occasional jobs for cash without having to declare it. It's only if it becomes regular or structured that it becomes liable for tax. For example, you can occasionally cut your neighbour's grass for £20 without having to tell the taxman. But if you advertise grass cutting and have multiple 'clients' and it forms a major part of your income you need to register as self-employed and declare it. There is no clear definition of what constitutes 'regular' and what should be declared, so it's a grey area that fuels the 'grey economy' (as well as deliberate tax evasion).

Cash jobs are fine if you are self employed (a 'sole trader') but you must declare it on a tax return each year.

Never ever heard of 'on the black' in the UK. The term would be cash-in-hand.
OP peter_olsztyn 6 | 1,098
18 Dec 2016  #23
In England we would be more likely to say cash jobs or cash in hand. Just means you avoid paying tax and National Insurance.

Looks like its better not to do mistake saying in hand instead of after tax in the UK

And another point|question if you don't mind ;)

I'm a newcomer to London and it looks like eastern part of the city is a bedroom and western is a workshop.
and its better not to rent a room/flat in the East because you will hear from emploers sorry you live too far buddy ;)
Observvver
18 Dec 2016  #24
>I'm a newcomer to London and it looks like eastern part of the city is a bedroom and western is a workshop

Not really. London is vast (50 km across, just within the M25 ring road) and is basically a collection of smaller cities/towns/villages. Traditionally east London was the poor part, with the docks and heavy industry, whilst the west was the rich part, but there are pockets of rich and poor everywhere (the poor docks are now the banking sector at Docklands). But you will find the old Victorian mansions and parks to the west. The main thing is to be within walking distance of a tube (metro) or train station, or a good bus route.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,671
18 Dec 2016  #25
Not really Peter....as Observer said, it is a collection of smaller places, each with their own character.
If you want to work in the East, then look there...
unless you have a skewed view of the city and by 'East' you mean eg Newbury Park....which is hardly in London.
Jay_benn - | 1
8 Jan 2017  #26
It is not illegal in the UK to do electrical work on your own home or others. Infact you don't need any qualifications at all, however you do need the work to be signed off (part P), which the local council does, but it's expensive. That's where part P certification schemes come in.


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