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Immgration to UK. A success?


labowski
27 Apr 2011 #1
Detectives investigating the brutal killing of an elderly couple found dead at home on Good Friday have charged three men with murder.

Churchgoers Guiseppe and Caterina Massaro were stabbed and beaten to death in a 'sustained and ferocious' attack with a hammer and knife, police said.

Polish migrants Wojciech Ostolski, 32, Lieneusz Bartnowski, 21, both from Wolverhampton, along with Macaej Kus, 30, from Birmingham, were each charged with both murders and aggravated burglary.
isthatu2 4 | 2,702
28 Apr 2011 #2
When they didnt release the names of the suspects my rader thought they were probably immigrant scum , didnt suspect European names though.....
(disclaimer, "immigrant scum " as oppossed to home grown scum....not a slur on immigrants.)
Amathyst 19 | 2,702
28 Apr 2011 #3
Good Friday have charged three men with murder.

You missed the word "Polish"
OP labowski
28 Apr 2011 #4
I didn't miss anything, it was a quote
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
28 Apr 2011 #5
What type of immigaration? if you are specifically adressing Polish immigration and the following article is correct, then the overwhelming answer is YES:

Monday, 11 April 2011

"Poles in England & Wales 4 times more law abiding than average Brit?
Latest statistics published in the Daily Telegraph and the Daily Mail show that Poles living here are overwhelmingly law abiding in comparison to the average resident of England and Wales.

Latest estimates of the number of Poles in England and Wales by the Polish Consulate are around 700,000. In 2010 the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) recorded that 6777 convictions in England and Wales concerned Polish citizens. On the face of it this is still a high number, but in view of the total estimate of Poles in this country, it does show that less than 1% of Poles in this country have been convicted of committing a crime in England and Wales. Or, put another way, less than one Pole in every hundred has been convicted of a crime. Considering that most of the Poles here are young and live in a land with unfamiliar customs to which many have not yet fully adjusted, this is indeed a relatively low figure.

By comparison the Home Office Statistical Bulletin, published in January 2011, stated that the total number of recorded crimes in England and Wales between October 2009 and September 2010 stands at 4,223,362. This covers roughly the same time period as the above crime statistics for Poles. The last recorded population of England and Wales stands at 52,042,000 (2001 Census) though it is probably somewhat higher now. That is equivalent to more than 7 crimes having been recorded for every 100 residents of England and Wales, i.e. one crime for every 14 persons in the country. Obviously many of the above offences would have been carried out by repeat offenders, but it would not be unfair to estimate that some 4% of the indigenous population may have committed a crime.

These statistics also mean that less than 00.15% (less than one sixth of 1 per cent) of crimes in this country were committed by Polish citizens. Still high, but the statistics for law abiding Polish residents in the UK looks more positive by comparison with the entire population of England and Wales.

Obviously the ACPO is right to point out that crime committed by ethnic minorites, and in particular by minorities who have not lived in the UK for long and are not likely to speak English fluently, does cause a greater use of police resources than crimes committed by the indigenous population. It requires more complex work with the community in question and involves an increased use of interpreters. Obviously this is highly regrettable.

Many of us Poles do feel angry that even this small percentage of Polish citizens abuses English and Welsh hospitality by committing crimes in this country. We agree that recent job losses and the credit squeeze, which had hit Polish communities particularly strongly, are not an adequate excuse for committing such offences here. Nevertheless we feel it is unfair that British newspapers seem to be highlighting statistics in such a way that is likely to inflame resentment against law abiding Poles and other nationalities living, working and paying taxes in this country.

I believe that the Federation of Poles in Great Britain (for whom I used to be the press officer some years ago) should make these facts more widely available and challenge the presentation of these statistics by an alarmist British media."

In other words Poles in the UK are far more likely to be the vicitms of crime, then be the ones committing crime.
Krynski - | 82
28 Apr 2011 #6
British newspapers seem to be highlighting statistics in such a way that is likely to inflame resentment against law abiding Poles and other nationalities living, working and paying taxes in this country.

--- What "other nationalities," please? Isn't is the case that in England courts frequently forbid mentioning in the press the names of the nationalities and first and last names of presumed foreign criminals, especially those from the Third World, but the courts frequently allow to mention the nationality and first and last names of presumed Polish criminals? What is the result of such institutional discrimination and censorship - I mean the result for the Poles in Britain? Really, isn't it high time to leave en masse this racist, Polonophobic land - the land where as a result of the hate propaganda by the media psychopaths scores of Poles have been beaten up and murdered by local racists?

Yes, "immigration" of the Poles to Britain has been a success for the ripping them off British and Britain, but has not been the slightest success for the Poles and Poland.
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
28 Apr 2011 #7
Isn't is the case that in England courts frequently forbid mentioning in the press the names of the nationalities and first and last names of presumed foreign criminals, especially those from the Third World

Sources please.

the land where as a result of the hate propaganda by the media psychopaths scores of Poles have been beaten up and murdered by local racists?

Again some sources. About Poles murdered due to media incitement.

You were caught out on that one a couple of days ago. So stop repeating rubbish.
Krynski - | 82
28 Apr 2011 #8
You were caught out on that one a couple of days ago. So stop repeating rubbish.

---What specifically have I been allegedly caught out on?
:)
OP labowski
28 Apr 2011 #9
Statistics or not, these two lives have been lost. Of course its not exclusively 'Poles' and my motivations come from my own experience which has not been good. I used to live in a part of my city that has seen a huge influx of poles. I got so sick and tired of having to run, talk down or fight my way home at night with drunk and macho polish males. Every week stories are heard, I had insider information on a couple of horrendous rapes committed locally and polish, rapist, murder are words found too often in the same sentence. Sure, there are criminals in every community. We have enough of our own and others to contend with but now we have to increasingly contend with polish ones too. So whats a few victims uh? It balances out ok in the end. Success maybe, on the whole yeah? but not without someone paying a price right?

krynski...calm down dear. i'm not doing anything and i'm not racist but if all these terrible things are happening its proof that freedom of movement was not a good idea...for you...or for us.
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
28 Apr 2011 #10
---What specifically have I been allegedly caught out on?
:)

Malicious, xenophobic lies, of course. Not allegedly.

So come on then, how many Poles have been murdered as a result of incitement by the UK media? You've said so twice. LOL
Havok 10 | 912
28 Apr 2011 #11
Mail Online (also known as dailymail.co.uk) is the name of the website for the Daily Mail. The above article came from British Daily Mail.

Who reads daily mail?

"The Daily Mail reader stereotype is best defined by Hyacinth Bucket - late middle age, middle England, middle class. Conservative, kids at uni, wife never worked, scandalized by homosexuality and children outside marriage - oh and immigration. Enjoy being disgusted by Elton John and love reading about polo even though they've never been to a polo match. That's the stereotype anyway."

"They are the kind of people who love to be outraged, believe everything was better in their day, are afraid of change, think political correctness has gone too far while enjoying every freedom that political correctness down the years provides them, they are convinced the country is going downhill and that it is the fault of immigrants, they cling to 'great' British icons such as Princess Diana, they believe the twee little statuettes on their mantle pieces to be fine art, they don't recognize anything but figurative work to be art, they believe in the death penalty, they will swear by Britain's principles yet condemn alleged criminals before the verdict has been read."

What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

I got so sick and tired of having to run, talk down or fight my way home at night with drunk and macho polish males.

You're just a silly kid.
Krynski - | 82
28 Apr 2011 #12
Malicious, xenophobic lies, of course. Not allegedly.

--- What are those alleged malicious xenophobic lies of mine? Give them.

Are you a British xenophobe attempting to divert attention from your xenophobia by accusing somebody else of xenophobia?
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
28 Apr 2011 #13
What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

It's still the same. The three guys have been charged with murder. Surely you aren't suggesting their names should be kept secret?

"They are the kind of people who love to be outraged,"

Fits a lot of people in Poland too...
Havok 10 | 912
28 Apr 2011 #14
Surely you aren't suggesting their names should be kept secret?

Why not? Are they guilty of a crime? What if they're insistent? Your comprehension of the basic laws seems backwards.

Fits a lot of people in Poland too...

good news, you fit that description as well.
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
28 Apr 2011 #15
Why not? Are they guilty of a crime?

It doesn't matter - arrests are reported in the media; trials are public.

Your comprehension of the basic laws seems backwards.

It seems your comprehension of the "basic laws" (whatever that's supposed to mean) are non-existant if you think that the names of people charged with crimes are kept secret in the UK.

good news, you fit the description as well.

Hardly. Dyed in the wool educated Liberal, if anything. But of course you're entitled to your views, however bizarre.

--- What are those alleged malicious xenophobic lies of mine? Give them

I gave them two days ago. Remember. Check back. Use the search function, Puzzler.
OP labowski
28 Apr 2011 #16
this one is from the bbc....i'm no fan of the daily mail. not on the front page bbc site, in the interests of diversity of course. innocent would be nice but I wouldn't bet on it. still...we can always hope

'Beautiful and caring'

Wojciech Ostolski, 32, from Wolverhampton, Lieneusz Bartnowski, 21, also from Wolverhampton, and Macaej Kus, 30, from Birmingham, will appear at Wolverhampton Magistrates' Court on Thursday.
The couple's home in Wolverhampton The couple's bodies were found in the bedroom of their home

They were all arrested during Sunday night and Monday morning.

Earlier, it was revealed two flat-screen televisions stolen from the couple's home had been found in Wolverhampton.

The couple's car was found in Wednesfield.
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
28 Apr 2011 #17
Statistics or not, these two lives have been lost.

The evidence shows otherwise, like I said the statisitcs show that Poles are 4 times more law abiding then you or your realtives are. In fact they demonstrate that you and your relatives are more likely to commit a crime against the Poles then the other way around.
Krynski - | 82
28 Apr 2011 #18
I gave them two days ago. Remember.

--- Why do I have to "remember"? What, are you threatening me? So can you quote em, those lies, or not?
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
28 Apr 2011 #19
--- Nope, I don't remember. So can you quote em, those lies, or not?

I already have. So use the search function and stop trolling.

Anyway, it's dinner time so I have nicer things to do than win arguments with fools.
Krynski - | 82
28 Apr 2011 #20
I already have.

--- So you can't prove that I allegedly have told some malicious xenophobic lies? Well, this proves you're a liar and slanderer. Now as for myself I can prove that the British media hate propaganda seems to be the main cause of the British hostility towards the Poles.
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
28 Apr 2011 #21
So you can't prove that I allegedly have told some malicious xenophobic lies?

See above.

British media hate propaganda

WTF?

Check out the thread about the Guardian series last month about Poland and its people. If the words aren't too long for you.

British hostility towards the Poles.

A funny kind of hostility that has welcomed a million people.
OP labowski
28 Apr 2011 #22
hague1cmaeron - you're missing the point. had there not been such a huge unmanaged influx in 2004, which allowed criminals and delinquents to move around freely as well as the law abiding there would be little need for statistics. i'm not anti-polish nor anti-immigration! but i've only met and heard 2 types of poles. the aggressive neanderthals and the ones complaining about how we treat you so bad. on a personal level i know of no successes though i'm sure they exist. that still does not cover the victims totally tho does it. 4 times more likely is four times fuk all to the couple in my original post. i've experienced many waves of immigration here. very rarely did one hear of spanis or french rapist, murderer in the early days of freedom of movement within the EU.

Krynski....going to sleep now. Do you seriously expect me to rise to that? I don't want to murder anyone, of course that has happened too, I don't deny it and I am truly sorry anybody has suffered.
Havok 10 | 912
28 Apr 2011 #23
It doesn't matter - arrests are reported in the media; trials are public.

And Mail Online turned this into public town square lynching. You British are less civilized than i suspected.

It seems your comprehension of the "basic laws" (whatever that's supposed to mean)

Every individual has dignity. The principles of basic human rights were drawn up by human beings as a way of ensuring that the dignity of everyone is properly and equally respected.

they haven't been proven guilty so it's wrong to portray them as criminals. As of now they are still insistent. These are the basics.

Hardly. Dyed in the wool educated Liberal, if anything. But of course you're entitled to your views, however bizarre.

you can call yourself dalai lama for all i care.

will appear at Wolverhampton Magistrates' Court on Thursday

I really hate people like you. You deserve it.
Krynski - | 82
28 Apr 2011 #24
Check out the thread about the Guardian series

What do you mean by: "check out the thread," etc.? Do you mean it's ME who have got to look for evidence confirming the validity of your claims? Wouldn't you think it's your task? Well, it seems you don't provide the evidence in question because it doesn't exist, and therefore I repeat: you're a liar and slanderer. Get lost, idiot.

I don't want to murder anyone, of course that has happened too, I don't deny it and I am truly sorry anybody has suffered.

--- You mean you actually don't deny you have murdered somebody?! Holly smoke!!!!
:)
OP labowski
28 Apr 2011 #25
Deserve what exactly? This is not an isolated case is it? Lets leave it just now then. I'll return when the verdict is out but if it you wish me to find other examples (Not Daily Mail) just say so. Don't get it all fuked up now. Were you to provide me with evidence of other nationalities committing these crimes in Poland I would be the first to admit there was a problem and happy to discuss solutions.
Krynski - | 82
28 Apr 2011 #26
A funny kind of hostility that has welcomed a million people.

--- Where did you get this number from? From the Daily Mail or the Daily Express, for instance? Where in Britain can one get reliable data on the numbers of nationalities actually living in Britain? Is such a source available at all?

:)
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
28 Apr 2011 #27
aggressive neanderthals

With a sentence like that, it is quite obvious that you are a racist and anti Polish, I pity the Poles that have to come into contact with you. And all the other more crminally inclined natives.

very rarely did one hear of spanis or french rapist, murderer in the early days of freedom of movement within the EU.

That is becuse your less then intelligent mind buys into some of the rascist trash that is prodcuced by some of the media in the UK, and your racist inclinations tend to agree with them.
OP labowski
28 Apr 2011 #28
--- You mean you actually don't deny you have murdered somebody?! Holly smoke!!!!
:)

Very good.
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
28 Apr 2011 #29
What do you mean by: "check out the thread," etc.?

Now what do you think I mean?

Do you mean it's ME who have got to look for evidence confirming the validity of your claims?

You're the one who's claiming something pretty extreme.

Wouldn't you think it's your task? Well, it seems you don't provide the evidence in question because it doesn't exist, and therefore I repeat: you're a liar and slanderer. Get lost, idiot

Buzz off, troll.

And Mail Online turn it in to public town square lynching.

Ah, right. A forum. Check out some of the comments on Onet.pl, if you're looking for xenophobia.

The principles of basic human rights were drawn up by human beings as a way of ensuring that the dignity of everyone is properly and equally respected.

Meaningless. How can principles be 'drawn up'. You're mixing your opinions with laws. Show me any document that says English or Scottish law conceals the names of arrested persons from the media.

they haven't been proven guilty so it's wrong to portray them as criminals. As of now they are still insistent. This is the basics.

They aren't portrayed as criminals. In the UK, people are innocent until proven guilty. The press is free to report a court case, including names off all parties except minors and people whose names would identify minors, rape victims and protected witnesses.. Unless you know otherwise.

you can call yourself dalai lama for all i care.

I might well. But you are still wrong.
Havok 10 | 912
28 Apr 2011 #30
English or Scottish law conceals the names of arrested persons from the media

Your stupid online magazine is portraying those people as guilty. What if they're innocent?

In the UK, people are innocent until proven guilty

so what is this thread about 3 innocent Polish guys?


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