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Enforcing Polish Child maintenance order in UK court


PoznanK 1 | 10
31 Jul 2014  #1
My ex partner who lives in UK pays 250 PLN per month child maintenance but I feel he should pay 1000 PLN /month (his earnings are around £4000/month ).

What I would like to try to find out is if I go to the Polish family court, would I have a good chance to get this and would there be a good chance of the court making him pay - I mean enforcing the Poland court order. I have read that the UK court will enforce the Polish court order but I do not know if it works to well in practice. I am also not 100% sure of his address, just his address up to last year as he has been vague about this.

Thank you.
Harry
31 Jul 2014  #2
would I have a good chance to get this

Yes, pretty much nailed on (assuming you can evidence costs, otherwise you might be looking at more like 600 to 700 per month).

I have read that the UK court will enforce the Polish court order but I do not know if it works to well in practice.

If he doesn't pay it, you can report the matter to the prosecutor. The prosecutor can and will (eventually) issue a European arrest warrant, which British police will execute and then deport the deadbeat back to Poland.

he has been vague about this.

Don't worry about the address, he can be found if the British police want to find him.

Thank you.

Happy to help, especially when it involves a scumbag who thinks that he should only spend one and a quarter percent of his income on supporting his kid.
OP PoznanK 1 | 10
31 Jul 2014  #3
Hi Harry,

That sounds positive. I heard before some stories from people who had a lot of problem getting money from guys in UK even with the Polish courts so I was a bit worried.

Thank you very much.
Anglo
31 Jul 2014  #4
You will have a hard time getting money from him if he is self employed.

If he earns the money you stated through employment, then the CSA in the UK will use a order so the money is taken from his wage before he gets it, then they send it to you.

Good luck it isn't an easy thing to achieve.
OP PoznanK 1 | 10
31 Jul 2014  #5
From what I know he has a Limited company which is like sp. zoo in Poland so it means he works for a company but he owns the company.
Anglo
31 Jul 2014  #6
I see,

How do you receive the money you are getting now ?, is it voluntary or is it through Polands court system.
OP PoznanK 1 | 10
31 Jul 2014  #7
It's voluntary just now as we didn't go to court for child maintenance. I used to live in UK (but not with him) and I had a payment through the CSA but when I came back to Poland that stopped and then he offered 250 zł. Actually 30 minutes ago I got an email and he offered £100 per month but I still think it should be more because of his wage.
Anglo
31 Jul 2014  #8
OK,

Well since its voluntary I would ask for the amount you want but don't be greedy.

He probably uses an umbrella company to pay him self avoiding higher taxes, tell him if he doesn't agree your amount that you will inform the HMRC that he is committing tax evasion, and he doesn't want that because they will go through his account's with a fine tooth nail and he is best to avoid it.
OP PoznanK 1 | 10
31 Jul 2014  #9
Hmm.. That's a bit of a leap. I've no reason to think he is doing tax evasion.

I would rather just go to the court so long as it will definitely get enforced. I'm just worried that if I go to court and they cannot enforce it then he will decide to pay nothing.
Anglo
31 Jul 2014  #10
I know exactly what you mean !

But,

He has a private company which is limited and he will use it to avoid paying a higher rax rate through an umbrella company, therfore, it looks on paper that he does not earn the money you state.

And

Just because the court agrees with you and judge's in your favour, getting him to pay is another thing, it can drag on and on and on !!

You can rather ask nicely and say I want this amount or say you want this amount or else I'll. Its upto you !
OP PoznanK 1 | 10
31 Jul 2014  #11
"He has a private company which is limited and he will use it to avoid paying a higher rax rate through an umbrella company"

I understand but that doesn't mean he is doing something illegal.

"it can drag on and on and on !!"

I know thats my worry I want to be sure. But it still doesn't mean he is a tax fraud :)
TheOther 5 | 3,771
31 Jul 2014  #12
Have you talked to your ex yet? Maybe he is willing to meet you 2/3 of the way with the amount, and you can both avoid a lengthy and potentially nasty court case? He's the father of your child, so unless he's a complete douche, I would give him the chance to resolve this issue on amicable terms.
Anglo
31 Jul 2014  #13
I know but about the tax fraud thing, but its a bluff and something I would resort to but maybe not you.

Ask him amicably and agree an amount if you can.

I am not saying is a tax avoider but if he is then the fear of the HMRC may make him agree to your demands. Its something to think about, he earns good money and he has no reason not to pay a reasonable amount to you for your son.
OP PoznanK 1 | 10
31 Jul 2014  #14
We have sort of discussed this by emails and this seems to be his final offer £100/month, it is around 500 zł.
Anglo
31 Jul 2014  #15
Ask for 125 as a final outcome and say its for your son and it only benefits him in the end.

Bloody hell 50 quid a month and he earns 4k......thats disgusting !
OP PoznanK 1 | 10
31 Jul 2014  #16
I agree it is not enough but he says it is about child costs not what he earns. I think what he earns counts for something
Harry
31 Jul 2014  #17
We have sort of discussed this by emails and this seems to be his final offer £100/month, it is around 500 zł.

So tell him you'll be seeing him in court.
Anglo
31 Jul 2014  #18
Look into court action as he will have to £114 a week, maybe you should make him aware of that !
cms 9 | 1,272
31 Jul 2014  #19
I wish my kids only cost 500 zloty a month ! Thats 17 zloty a day. What a pathetic guy - take him to court and make him face his responsibilities
hugy
31 Jul 2014  #20
i think you got problems ...

what he earns is his business, not yours - you want English maintenance ,,, you go to English CSA, then they base maintenance only on what he earns,,, if he is self employed and has low declared tax return, and maybe even tax credits etc ,,, t

if you go to Polish court ,,, then it is not based on what he earns so much ,,, if he earns 2000 pounds a month ,,, then so what - Polish judge take into account his UK expenses etc which are obviously higher ,,, plus Polish maintenance is different to UK ,,,, and FAIRER

So what if he earn 3000 pound per month - SO WHAT? baby still eat same amount of food , crap same amount in diaper- so why should he pay more?

500-600 zl per month will be fair in Polish court especially if child is very young,, you can not ask for more - unless child need more.... maybe child is very sick ,,, maybe you spend more money on medical ... maybe you can prove your expenses... then he pays

if he is UK citizen he will not be arrested on Polish arrest warrant.

why? because not paying maintenance in Poland is crime..... so you get arrested

not paying maintenance/ CSA etc in UK ... is not crime, i don't know any men who get arrested for this

if Polish EU arrest warrant is for not paying polish maintenance - he can not be arrested in England because he can only be arrested if what Poland wants him for is ALSO a crime in England...

and not paying maintenance is not a crime in England...

in England ,,, if men do not pay maintenance ,,, i don't think that they go to prison , not like Poland

in Poland if man does not pay maintenance he maybe go to prison ... why ? because is crime in Poland

EU arrest warrant is only valid in England - if also the "crime" which Poland wants him for ... is also crime in England..... and it is not

now if Poland gave EU arrest warrant for stealing car in Poland, then English police would arrest him and send him to Poland... why? because stealing car is crime in Poland AND also crime in England

not paying maintenance is crime in Poland.... but NOT in England.... so he can not be sent to Poland

that seems fair - otherwise he could be sent to Poland for anything , any stupid polish law that is broken - so long as it is a crime in poland...

i think it also needs to be a crime in England as well

do yourself a favour... accept the 500zl/ 600 zl

BTW.......

Maybe i am wrong on this ...... but.......

if you already had gone to CSA ,,, and CSA are dealing with this- then you can NOT go to polish court...

why ?

i think that there are laws which say that the first country which is dealing with the maintenance / child custody etc - will be the court which always deals with maintenance,.

if you go to Poland and take him to court ... he can legally say he is already being dealt with by English CSA- that is a legal defence ... Polish court can not order money etc,,,

if one country in EU is already dealing with the maintenance - .

maybe i am wrong on all this ,, you should check]]]

my advice... take 500 zl
OP PoznanK 1 | 10
1 Aug 2014  #21
Thank you all for the advice.

I went to CSA in UK when I lived there but when I came back to Poland that stopped so it is no longer enforced So if he doesnt pay I have to go to court in Poland as that is where our child lives. I got this from reading on internet so I am not 100% sure but CSA money definitely stopped when I left UK.

Also from reading I think if he doesnt pay after decision from Polish court he doesnt go to jail so I think you are right but instead jail they take money straight from him.

Our son is 7 and starting school in September so he says she has less expenses (because not kindergarten any more).

It feels like I have to make a gamble. Accept 100 pounds or try for more but maybe get zero!!
Anglo
1 Aug 2014  #22
I find it all so strange !

If you claim Child Tax Credits in the UK you receive the money in pounds in Poland, however if the CSA make a judgement and your child is in Poland you get no money at all !

That can not be right !
Harry
1 Aug 2014  #23
500-600 zl per month will be fair in polish court especially if child is very young,, you can not ask for more - unless child need more

That is pure bollocks. I know from personal experience that the Polish court is perfectly willing to order a person who officially has no income at all to pay 1000zl per month.

and not paying maintenace is not a crime in england...

Men are sent to prison in the UK for not paying child support.

if you already had gone to csa ,,, and csa are dealing with this- then you can NOT go to polish court...

Wrong yet again. The court in the country where the child is living (legally resident) has jurisdiction.

if you go to poland and take him to court ... he can legally say he is already being dealt with by english csa- that is a legal defence

He can say it, and the Polish court will either not listen or point out that they don't care.

not paying maintenace is crime in poland.... but NOT in england.... so he can not be sent to poland

Wrong yet again.

maybe i am wrong on all this

Finally you get something right.

So if he doesnt pay I have to go to court in Poland as that is where our child lives.

That is correct.

It feels like I have to make a gamble. Accept 100 pounds or try for more but maybe get zero!!

It's not a gamble at all: you will certainly be awarded more than £100. You most certainly won't get nothing.
OP PoznanK 1 | 10
1 Aug 2014  #24
"It's not a gamble at all: you will certainly be awarded more than £100. You most certainly won't get nothing."

But back to my original point what I mean is he might not pay or maybe it cant be enforced or if cant find him and then I end up with nothing.
johnny reb 17 | 3,537
1 Aug 2014  #25
Actually 30 minutes ago I got an email and he offered £100 per month but I still think it should be more because of his wage.

His wage has nothing to do with what is fair for the child.
Take the 525 żł and tell him thank you for understanding.
Then keep records of [i]ALL[i] the child's maintenace costs.
(this doesn't include his cell phone and high speed internet costs)
Be reasonable, as in costs for school, school activities, cloths, shoes,
food, health care bills, ect.
If those costs exceed (which no doubt they will) the 525 żł, show him
that junior had a medical bill or dental bill that which exceeded the budget
he expects to raise a child on.
Civil communication with a man that has any accountability or responsibility
usually works better then threatening them with court and prison.
You don't want a challenge, you want what is best for your son.
Women sometimes think that child maintenace should cover their cigarettes and
vodka too for their part in raising the child.
I am not saying that is your case however things like that turn men off very quickly
in giving more to support dead beat mom's.
The first seven years are the hardest raising a child as they take a lot of time.
Now that he can tie his own shoes, make a sandwich, tuck himself in, sit and watch
t.v. by himself, ect. he is becoming easier to raise and much more enjoyable.
You have ten more years of your life to sacrifice for a decision that you made eight
years ago.
Those ten years will go very fast and I do pray that they will also be your happiest
sharing them with your son.
poland_
1 Aug 2014  #26
You can search directors in the UK once you have found him buy a statements of his accounts
companycheck.co.uk/director/index
Sammik
25 Feb 2015  #28
Hi - We pay child maintenance to my partners ex in Poland at what age does that stop, as the eldest will be 21 this year ?
Harry
25 Feb 2015  #29
It stops at 27, if the 'child' is still in full-time education at that age; otherwise it stops in the month that they cease their full-time education.

However, once the child hits 18, the only person who can enforce payment responsibilities is the child (so if a parent refuses to pay or stops paying, the other parent can't legally do anything, only the child could take that parent to court).


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