Documentary on foreign and local workers in a town in England.

I worked in The Netherlands also and I would be really shocked if your country did not have grants and educational programs for people exactly like you.

Many of my friends have been laid off in ireland now and many of them are seeking further qualifications, it is a great option, I really hope you do the research, that is a job in itself.


if there is one thing I know from my experinces of working in factories and many many other jobs, is that without factory workers society as we know it would fall apart.

I don't want to sound like a commie but factory workers are the backbone of any country.


Really? All forms of just universities?
I know your country is what I would call very civilised and I am surprised that they do not offer anything of the sort.


Yes, before any decision can be made the options have to known.


You're are a good guy, you certainly have the ability to do whatever you want but I understand the means are not always available.

I have been lucky, especially in the last three years when i moved back to Poland and things were not so effected here as they were everywhere else. Nothing to do with hard work or education, sometimes it is just a matter of luck. And I have been unemployed before, endlessly looking for work and trying to educate mayself was a struggle.

I know this documentary can be seen as Anti-locals but I really think we should rise above such silly thinking.


Ah, I see what you mean now but I still think any education is the way forward.


In Ireland this changes when you are 24 and is made a lot easier if you have been on the dole for a long time. you should check out the details in Holland as I think they would be more helpful, they change depending on circumstances.

It's from one extreme to the other, the Beeb is new Labours mouth piece, all multi culti and PC friendly and then the Daily Mail at the other end of the spectrum being a right wing Tory mouthpiece. It's just a matter of whose propaganda you believe.

It means you'll have to achieve a certain degree of education to be granted access to college or university, and you will also have to achieve a certain degree of education before you're actually entitled to recieve a student loan. (Or any other kind of additional funding.) Which means I now have to do a study which will cost me about 800 € a month.

:(

Bloody Fas courses? "How to turn on a computer".

I think countries should aspire to the Dutch model, not the other way around. The Dutch are one of the most educated, in the EU.

You don't sound like a Communist to me, because that's just a simple fact of life.


They used to offer you a job so you could save up for the education you needed in order to recieve a student loan or scholarship to develop yourself. Guess what? These jobs are no longer available. If they are, these short contracts often don't last long enough for you to save enough money. (And you're bound to lose that money when you're unemployed every now an then, because you'll be trying to bridge the financial gaps inbetween jobs.)


If only I could get a job for like two years, I'd be able to finance my study. It's as simple as that. (But you know, foreign workers are better and I'm lazy!)

>:(


It's a decent system, and if you're able to work for a longer period of time then there will be no problems whatsoever. I just need to find one employer who won't mind letting me work for atleast one year. (Which is a problem at the moment, because of the foreign competition.)

Is there any balanced media? perhaps we could look at that.


Not just FAS courses, second-or third-level education courses.
Your smarmy smug argument against education will be a delight, please continue.


Back to Education Allowance

That was the first thing I found in google.


I agree to a degree, education should be free and not just for some.


We have a different system, check the above link.


Are you sure there are no grants for you for third level education? even loans?

I'm curious.


Yes, absolutely. 100% sure. I have to pay for my first study myself. I'm not sure how you'd call that abroad but it's probably academic highschool, which is called VWO here, which will cost me about 800 € a month. (Keep in mind that minimum wage here means about 1100 € a month.) If I have my VWO degree, I'll be able to apply for a student loan and attend college or university and my problem will be solved.


It's not free here. (You'll have to pay back your student loan aswell after you've finished your studies.)

;)

Certainly not the BBC and all the main papers have their own political agenda. Whoever pays the piper calls the tune.

They cancelled them in the budget, son. There are only 400 places.


It is free, Sean.


Are things that bad in the Netherlands? Whats the unemployment rate? Are you just fresh out of school and college?

Well then, all we can do is offer both extreme points of view and muddle through.


Where does it say that?
And FAS courses at least give people the confidence and some knowledge.


Not in Holland and it was their system you proposed to copy.
I hear they want to change that, that'd be a grave mistake and one I will never understand because when there was no economy in Ireland they made it free.

And the bits in the middle, just take it all with a pinch of salt.

Good call. No doubt that there are many Brits given the chance and proper incentive in form of competitive wages that would do whatever it takes to make it. Bottom line is the profit for everyone involved, not some idealistic notion of providing fair compensation for the locals or considering the living cost and what would it take to raise the family in the area not to mention even playing field. Relaxing labor laws in the name of globalization is in elites interest, local politician can brag how he/she saved the jobs from moving out of the area, pretending to be in Joe the public interest, business saves money on labor costs and squeeze ever penny possible, everyone’s happy. There’s nothing wrong with making a profit as long as some kind of a balance is maintained between decent wage for the worker to maintain livable standard of living and corporate profit. We as a society have regressed in that respect, instead of working towards maintaining or improving that balance through our representatives in government we let it deteriorate. The reasons for that sad state of affairs are too numerous to get into now, ranging from geopolitical changes to corporate greed and corruption. Bottom line is that they succeeded in creating resentment towards each other among the two groups that in reality are being exploded, effectively blaming each other for the circumstances they find themselves in. As long as that resentment and blame can be maintained it’s a win, win situation for them. Interesting piece about the labor market but…..

I encourage Brits to put themselves in the shoes of those Poles that go across. Not getting work in their own country is a reality and they have to make a living somehow. Bills and other expenses don't pay themselves. We should appreciate their sacrifice that they are moving away from their families, sth that's not so easy for Poles to do. It's often not their fault that they can't find gainful employment in their own country.

Exactly! This report which is pretending to show the reality of labor market is biased on many levels, not only it’s unfair and demeaning to the British laborer looking for a job but immigrant labor as well. In reality all it does it pits one against the other and reinforces the popular belief of lazy verses productive. This fact by itself should raise a red flag for the viewer. Only one sentence in the entire piece had mention the fact that many of those immigrant laborers are well educated, yet no one even attempted to explained why they take on the low paying jobs and push the local unskilled labor out of the job market. This entire piece never raises the question of what brings the foreign worker to Britain. It never even pretends to explain why the labor market is so bad in the other countries that they have to emigrate and take on sometimes even demeaning jobs, or why the labor laws do not protect the worker or if they are even enforced.

Its intention was never to explain the root cause of the changes in labor market around the world that took place in the recent years, heavily favoring the Big Business and corporate world and certainly not what's happening in Britain. Why were the laws relaxed? Why were they changed and why the existing ones are not enforced as shown in this discriminatory advertisement presented in DM article raised on the other thread here. It simply focused on one issue, how worthless the locals are which in turn breads resentment towards immigrant community. So it makes you wonder what purpose it serves. whose agenda is being promoted here? I’m afraid that an average viewer will never even consider raising those questions on his own, instead he will just take defensive posture; turn his anger at his greatest enemy as presented to him by the authors of this piece, (short of stating it themselves) his competitor, mission accomplished.

The official numbers show us that there are currently 675.000 people who are jobless, but I think the actual numbers are much higher, for a variety of reasons I can't be bothered to explain in great detail.


Exactly.


I encourage politicians and business people to invest in countries such as Poland, to make these countries reliable and strong business partners within the EU, which will ofcourse create many more opportunities and many more jobs for all parties included. (Not being idealistic there!)


I do raise those questions, but it's much easier to distance yourself from something when it doesn't really affect you. I'll be the first to admit that this documentary angered me so much I couldn't even pay much attention to the content at first, but I'm not directing my anger towards the immigrants. I don't live in England, but I do feel solidarity for people who are being pushed aside in their own countries. Just imagine being unwanted by your own people.

So do I, I never argued otherwise. Just like in this piece where the false belief in lazy versus productive to hide the true reason behind it which is being cultivated in order to …. (Write your own story here), so are many others like a third world country subsidized by the very same unemployed Brit, German whatever. Yet no one ever mentions the fact that mainstay of our industry which provided good paying jobs for our people like steel mills, ship yards, mining etc., all were bought out for cheap by corporate world base in the old EU nations forced on us as part of restructuring in order to join the union and simply closed as to not to create competition to the ones already operating elsewhere or for some environmental concerns as part of the agreement to join EU, stay, whatever. On the other hand those jobs that were created by our ascension to EU were far less than those lost thus artificially creating job shortage and high unemployment to lower the labor cost in your own countries. All this exploitation and still we are being called as leaches by those who simply have no idea of the price Poland paid. Multiply this by so many new nations joining the union and you create chaos, for the same thing was happening in those countries. There are many Myths being created and reinforced in the minds of westerners by the press and it all seems to be slowly sinking in, in the view of general public judging by the opinions presented here on this forum not necessarily on this subject by most of the members here. No independent thought whatsoever except by few, just your basic run of the mill repeat of catchy one line phrases taken out of the magazines that appeal to the masses. The point is; the resentment grows on both sides of the equation fuelled by the media even if on the surface it seems as positive to the newcomer or in his defense and what’s viewed as PC today.

youtube.com/watch?v=OFg7wVETAjk&feature=related
an 18-min mini-debate on the key issues surrounding immigration.

This is part 1, part 2 is also available. Vital stats are given!

In part one, the pro-immigrant guy says: Each and everyone gets a thousand pounds richer, it's not pennies at all.

Well Einstein, explain to me how each and everyone who lost their job will get richer? How will an electrician who became too expensive get richer, when immigrants are willing to work for half his salary?

The actual profit in percentages? 1,5% 1,7%,? 2%? Okay, so which people do you think, Einstein, will benefit from the 2%? Exactly, the minority of people who are already wealthy will benefit from this, and the vast majority of people can **** themselves, because you're happy with your job as a lousy reporter. I know it's a cliché, but the rich will get richer, and the poor will get even poorer, and society? Who cares about society?

The old man is right there.

Very well put, Arien! It makes me mad how people ruthlessly pursue profits in such fashion. Britain's working class bore the brunt of the decision to open the floodgates. The key is not to blame the immigrants unduly but try as much as possible to create new jobs. Work just isn't there for some people. We need some kind of curbing as, although I am highly sympathetic to Poles who go abroad for work, it doesn't change the fact that motivated indigenous people are losing out. Competition is competition, yes, but the alignment appears to be wrong. Many have laid the criticism that Britain has been over accommodating.

If you think it was bad then, you should see it now...wages are lower now than they were then! Only minimum wage seems to be rising...

One thing that does concern me in this country is that we are moving away from apprenticeships, why should an employer spend money training up a young lad when he can get a qualified foreigner do to the job for the same money? Youth of today a phucked before they even start! But on a positive slant, the government are moving towards technical colleges where “skills” and “trades” are taught, only problem is how do they then get experience? At least it’s a step in the right direction, but it is strong indicator that employers cant be bothered investing in our own…


Hindsight is a wonderful thing Sheepy, not one person imagined for one minute that millions would flock here..Had they been more aware (like Germany were) there would have been a resounding NOT A PHUCKING CHANCE!

youtube.com/watch?v=Pk411sk7Bs4
I agree with many things this guy is saying. I really think Poland needs to do more to entice workers back. They could be of immense benefit to different sectors here and language is a major factor. Disillusionment alone doesn't wash as they need to show skills which benefit the economy of the host country. We cannot be a dumping ground for the disgruntled.

Britain has parallel obligations. It seems clear to me that Poland has a superior system through their technical schools (zawodowy). I know the kind of lame products of colleges in the UK and they simply don't compare. It would seem that any shortcomings in language are more than made up for by determination and the skillset of new foreigners.

I was focussing on those as thick as pigsh*t in the first paragraph, a point which sticks in the craw of educated Poles who see them as embarrassments and false ambassadors.

I think people are slowly starting to realize that this has nothing to do with competition, and many more people will be made redundant if nothing changes, even the people with higher qualifications will eventually lose their privileges if this keeps up.

I'm no oracle or anything, but predicting where such predator mentality will eventually lead us to is fairly simple; If you can't take away much more from people who work for minimum wages, who will you turn on next?

I already know that in some countries they're already speculating that half of the office workers in the governmential system should be layed off and sent home. And then what? Ask the people who are working for minimum wage to pay for their benefits aswell? They're obviously not going to work at the farm or factories, because we have immigrants for that sort of work, don't we? Okay, maybe that's too far-fetched, I'm going out for a moment, I need fresh air and I really need to cool down.

They are planning massive cuts in the UK...

What was that you were saying about those "others" being targetted?

I could provide links for every city in the UK...how many jobs is that?

What I can say is that people must be prepared to be upwardly mobile and take posts elsewhere which match what they have to offer. My qualifications stood out but there were no jobs in my area and that was a sad fact.

I agree with Amathyst, we need more internships and apprenticeships. Without these modern options being put in place, job applicants will almost always come out second best.

I remember all those old schemes like 'Investing in People'. It seems that paranoid people have turned it into 'Investing in Myself'. More people should pursue the route of becoming self-employed. Yes, it's a big roll of the dice but these are modern times after all.

I've just have had a passing thought. The funny one. You are all talking like commies did. Really. I know what I am talking about.

Capitalism stands for competition and profit.
Communism stands for justice and equality.
(no insult meant)

Yes, very much so. My brother is going to school now (sister through the military, but that's another story)....our family isn't exactly rich. He's supporting his education through burger king and pell grants. He's smart enough to know that a degree in anthropology probably won't pay the bills.

Enkidu, that's a bad misreading of the position and a naive view of political theory Vs practical manifestation. Firstly, I was speaking of EU Law and what it states. It cannot be that people just up sticks and make for pastures new. They have to show a commitment to the job market and not go in blind. Trust me, I'm 100% that there is an EU Directive to this effect. Secondly, the police themselves have had to clamp down on undercutting. I recommend the film 'Outlanders', written by David Lees. It tells the tale of large-scale undercutting in the building industry and spells out the need for a clampdown. My standpoint has nothing to do with communism and all its manifest nonsense.

youtube.com/watch?v=OJWHnHM4pvU&NR=1
practicalities, I keep mentioning this word. The UKIP leader expresses it beautifully here. He is an ardent proponent of immigration control. I assure you, he is no commie. He just wants a system whereby we can attract the right workers for the right jobs and not the dregs of society.

I hate it when I'm right.

:(

youtube.com/watch?v=naWHyddqSyA&feature=related
sb who realises national sovereignty and the fallacy of COSTA Vs Enel 1964. He rightly speaks against that globalist, Sarkozy.

Isn't it interesting that Farage can focus on core practical issues AND be aware of globalist agendas!? He seems to be much more in touch with the realities on the ground and doesn't dance to the globalists' tune (what, Beethoven isn't it?).

It'd be very interesting to see how an independent Scotland and separate England would deal with the problems under Salmond and Farage at the respective helms.

Did you see Farages attack on Von Rompuy?

youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dranqFntNgo

Like him or loathe him, the guys very articulate.