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Benefit cuts for Poles in The UK?


bullfrog 6 | 603
18 Feb 2013 #91
Make all EU workers pay private medical insurance for the first 12 months

Yes.. And let's send back to Britain all the Brits who are going to France to have an operation done to avoid the waiting lists offered by the NHS..
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
18 Feb 2013 #92
EU

Let's just shut it down, It clearly doesn't work right.
OP jon357 63 | 15,068
18 Feb 2013 #93
Yes.. And let's send back to Britain all the Brits who are going to France to have an operation done to avoid the waiting lists offered by the NHS..

The ones that pay, you mean?

The "Chav" class you poorly and pathetically lampoon as cultureless alcoholics are what keeps the wheels on society

Since when do the long-term unemployed 'keep the wheels' on anything?

=Barneystate sponsored opera

So now you're attacking public funding of the arts. Half Tory, half Taliban?

and has the big wine glass at home

So inverse snobbery now.
poland_
18 Feb 2013 #94
cultureless alcoholics are what keeps the wheels on society

The wheels have to move into the future, not stay motionless in a bygone era.Time for change barney, its coming soon
bullfrog 6 | 603
18 Feb 2013 #95
bullfrog: Yes.. And let's send back to Britain all the Brits who are going to France to have an operation done to avoid the waiting lists offered by the NHS..
The ones that pay, you mean?

No, they are treated like the French, ie they don't pay or they pay only for a small part of the cost, depending on the nature of the operation. The FCO even details the modus operandi!

ukinfrance.fco.gov.uk/en/help-for-british-nationals/living-in-france/faqs/healthcare-france/patient-mobility
OP jon357 63 | 15,068
18 Feb 2013 #96
ie they don't pay or they pay only for a small part of the cost

I notice you don't mention that this treatment you refer to and are pretending is some sort of benefits tourism is actually part of the Patient Mobility Scheme. To save you the trouble of clicking on your link and following it through to the Department of Health details, I'll post this quote:

To get NHS-funded treatment in another EEA country, you must be resident in the UK and entitled to NHS services.

And this one:

Your PCT decides whether an individual treatment is available on the NHS. Contact your local PCT for further information]

Barney 15 | 1,472
18 Feb 2013 #97
So now you're attacking public funding of the arts. Half Tory, half Taliban?

I'm not attacking anything except a rather conceited view of society where people are pretending to be something they are not.

The hypocrisy of someone criticising an entire class as alcoholic cultureless and scrounging yet ignoring the alcoholic, scrounging and typically middle brow (apologies to Orwell) self is astounding. Someone delibertly ignoring the glaringly obvious hypocrisy to make some bicthy non point is equally astounding.

The point is that everyone benefits from society but not everyone wants to pay for it. The benefits paid to the middle classes far outweigh those paid to the others.

The idea of a working wage is good economics, why you would oppose it is beyond economic sense.

There is no inverse snobbery or any other tory cliche you care to throw, there is just the hypocrisy of the judgemental self described "classy" posters.

The wheels have to move into the future, not stay motionless in a bygone era.

That’s why a working wage is a good idea socially and economically. Companies that pay a working wage are always more likely to prosper because they have a progressive management and a loyal motivated workforce. Its simple economics.
OP jon357 63 | 15,068
18 Feb 2013 #98
What makes you think that criticising chavs is the same as criticising an entire class? Unless you think that chavs comprise an entire class.
bullfrog 6 | 603
18 Feb 2013 #99
Patient Mobility Scheme

benefits tourism

Exactly!
OP jon357 63 | 15,068
18 Feb 2013 #100
No, not exactly. The NHS isn't 'benefits'. It's health insurance, paid for from people's wages. Not free. Women with no connection to the UK - perhaps from Poland - turning up to have babies because the doctors, nurses and hospitals are better and they won't get a bill is however scrounging.
crochetbitch88 2 | 83
18 Feb 2013 #101
Women with no connection to the UK - perhaps from Poland - turning up to have babies because the doctors, nurses and hospitals are better

And do you know anyone who have actually done that? Because I only know 1) a friend who was diagnosed with cancer and was going for treatment back to Poland for a year. 2) another friend who had problems with her leg and was going to Poland every few weeks to be treated 3) another person who broke his leg and had to have a knee operation - went to Poland because all what the NHS doctors had to offer were painkillers 4) another friend who went back to India to have some tests done, because the NHS didn't offer her any and she'd been having problems for months; and I know more people like that. They all live and work in the UK. Why on earth would they choose costly and tiring travel and health services in some "backwarded" countries if they had the wonder of the British NHS right nxt door giving them high standard health care for free.

Another friend of mine has just recently had a baby in the UK - she was crying when she was talking to me - she said for 3 days nobody had given her baby a bath and she had taken him home with dried blood stuck in his ears and hair. She left the hospital on her own request because she started getting depressed.

These are all true stories.
I'm not saying there is no high standard health care in Britain, sure there is - but NOT on the NHS and NOT for free.

The NHS is famous among the nations of the world for treating every illness with paracetamol.
Barney 15 | 1,472
18 Feb 2013 #102
Women with no connection to the UK - perhaps from Poland - turning up to have babies because the doctors, nurses and hospitals are better and they won't get a bill is however scrounging.

From your link in the OP:

Sarah Mulley, associate director for migration at the Institute for Public Policy Research think tank, said: "The Government does not have much room for manoeuvre. Access to most benefits is seen as the most important part of freedom of movement. There is no evidence migration is a significant drain on any of these resources."

independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/pm-targets-benefits-for-eu-nationals-8494030.html
oxon 4 | 164
18 Feb 2013 #103
You've turned a corner Jon. I hope I was in some way instrumental in your newly acquired philosophy. Up in the Highlands and Islands of Scotland, the NHS is superb. That's probably because it's not overwhelmed by immigrants and suchlike. Down London way, the NHS is not so good and as someone said earlier, it's better for them to go back to their home countries. What on earth made them come here in the first place I wonder?
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
19 Feb 2013 #104
the NHS is superb

Could be even more so If you guys washed yourself more often.

dailymail.co.uk/health/article-114729/710-000-patients-year-infected-dirty-NHS-wards.html
OP jon357 63 | 15,068
19 Feb 2013 #105
You've turned a corner Jon. I hope I was in some way instrumental in your newly acquired philosophy. Up in the Highlands and Islands of Scotland, the NHS is superb. That's probably because it's not overwhelmed by immigrants and suchlike. Down London way, the NHS is not so good and as someone said earlier, it's better for them to go back to their home countries. What on earth made them come here in the first place I wonder?

The same as always, Oxon. the NHS is something that my forefathers and yours fought for. Even the Tories have figured that out now. A few years ago, before I left the UK, I had a serious problem on one side of my face. I was supposed to wait 18 months before seeing a consultant - not because of immigrants, but because of chavs. In the end I was able to pull strings - they figured there was a real need to do it and followed the spirit (but broke the letter) of the rules. I was probably lucky.

The NHS is still the envy of the world - probably half my social circle here in PL are doctors - they say the same. We all, whether BNP voters, Tory voters, LibDems, Labour or Respect or Communist, all of us have something to be proud of!
godzilla853 2 | 6
19 Feb 2013 #106
NHS is famous among the nations of the world for treating every illness with paracetamol.

What a warm feeling the British people must have knowing their NHS is such a world-wide service :-|
Ironside 49 | 10,375
19 Feb 2013 #107
The NHS is still the envy of the world - probably half my social circle here in PL are doctors - they say the same. We all, whether BNP voters, Tory voters, LibDems, Labour or Respect or Communist, all of us have something to be proud of!

so what country is your jon?

What a warm feeling the British people must have knowing their NHS is such a world-wide service :-|

It was just a hyperbole, funny though that such a little exaggeration can shake out some crawling thing from its hiding place.
OP jon357 63 | 15,068
19 Feb 2013 #108
Like many of us here, more than one. As for the UK benefits, I don't pay tax there and it isn't my money. The benefits system over there is however something that people fought for - it shouldn't be abused by anyone.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,770
19 Feb 2013 #109
[*************************** friend of mine has just recently had a baby in the UK - she was crying when she was talking to me - she said for 3 days nobody had given her baby a bath and she had taken him home with dried blood stuck in his ears and hair. She left the hospital on her own request because she started getting depressed.[/quote]

in general, i think when you have a baby you are supposed to bath it yourself.......it is called 'being a parent'.
bullfrog 6 | 603
19 Feb 2013 #110
The NHS is still the envy of the world

I don't think so Jon. Maybe in Poland (where I agree, doctors are underpaid to a point which is ridiculous) or other Central/Eastern European countries, but it certainly not is the envy of the Dutch, the Germans, the French or the Spaniards..
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
19 Feb 2013 #111
where I agree, doctors are underpaid to a point which is ridiculous

Nonsense.
bullfrog 6 | 603
19 Feb 2013 #112
I'm talking here about doctors who work for the public health service and without the extra revenues generated by private practice.. I remember a dinner back in 2007 (OK a few years ago, maybe things have changed) where one of my neighbours happened to be the Head of Department of a major hospital in Warsaw..Her salary at that time was 3,500 PLN per month! This is ridiculously low..
OP jon357 63 | 15,068
19 Feb 2013 #113
but it certainly not is the envy of the Dutch, the Germans, the French or the Spaniards

Until they fall ill on holiday and a surprised to find that the hospital has no cash register.
Ironside 49 | 10,375
19 Feb 2013 #114
. The benefits system over there is however something that people fought for - it shouldn't be abused by anyone.

What are you talking about? So far amount of rubbish spread about Poles allegedly abusing benefits in the UK could choke a scrap-fill of a huge metropolis.

Mostly they such poster are talking out of their asses without shred of evidence. Am I to understand that you are joying them?
All statistical evidence point out that contrary to all those claims by those ass-lipped twits Poles generally do not abuse any befits to which they are legally entitled to. Quite the contrary the ratio they use benefit is on a less - which in translation for the weak minded and undereducated scrapers here means that many Poles even if entitled to benefits do not use them.

What those cravens are reluctant to say even on the Internet is that not any abuse of benefits by foreigners pain them but the very fact that foreigners are legally entitled to benefits.

So they are ranting and ranting about alleged abuse.
What more I suspect there one or two people resurrecting those thread every two three months on PF. Why mods do not dump all those threads into heap titles - British rants about Poles- is hard to fathom

I'm on this forum about five years and that constant never changes.

As for the thread topic fine words butter no parsnip .
It is not possible for one country to unilaterally change one of the fundamental EU laws.
Barney 15 | 1,472
19 Feb 2013 #115
I was supposed to wait 18 months before seeing a consultant - not because of immigrants, but because of chavs.

Poor/unemployed/working class people stopped you from seeing a consultant? Was the waiting list prioritised, any non chavs ahead of you on the list?
OP jon357 63 | 15,068
19 Feb 2013 #116
Poor/unemployed/working class people stopped you from seeing a consultant?

For once you've got it right. There was no prioritisation and someone with a job dealing with the public had to join the same queue as anyone else. in fact you're only nearly right since working class people were not the issue. I would certainly count as a working class person myself - one working hard, paying 9% of my wages in NI and having to stand in the same line as those who spend all day at home, buying scratchcards and watching their peers on the Jeremy Kyle show.

This sort of thing needs to stop - with the exception of disability issues and life threatening illnesses people paying NI should always take priority over those who don't. In 1948 the founders of the NHS expected increasing equality between the haves and have nots - they never expected the polarisation we now have between those who work and those who use.
Barney 15 | 1,472
19 Feb 2013 #117
For once you've got it right.

The definition seems to change depending on circumstances and context chav is a "deniable term" for the working class.

people paying NI should always take priority over those who don't.

I don’t believe that health care should be dependent on ability to pay I don’t care who it is that needs it. Clearly Britain cannot treat the entire world, this however is a non issue for political not financial reasons

Your own link said that

There is no evidence migration is a significant drain on any resource

I think it would be better if Cameron stuck to election pledges rather than bring up a non issue to appease British nationalists. By election pledges I'm referring to the 250 Billion he has pledged to give as benefit to industry much of it non British. Now who is being ripped off by whom?
OP jon357 63 | 15,068
19 Feb 2013 #118
The definition seems to change depending on circumstances and context chav is a "deniable term" for the working class

No, no, no. The whole point of the chav thing is that they aren't working, despite the availability of jobs.

don’t believe that health care should be dependent on ability to pay I don’t care who it is that needs it

The NHS operates on the basis of need. People who work have different needs to those who choose not to.

Clearly Britain cannot treat the entire world

On this we agree. The issue is serious enough to reappraise the way the NHS operates.
Barney 15 | 1,472
19 Feb 2013 #119
No, no, no. The whole point of the chav thing is that they aren't working, despite the availability of jobs.

I still go with chav is a "deniable term" for the working class because people are called chavs for no other reason than their appearance (We don’t use the term chav here its spide, in Scotland ned and in Poland dresiarz).
californiawills - | 1
20 Feb 2013 #120
The taxpayer is paying child benefit to 40,000 children who do not live in Britain at a cost of up to £36million a year, MailOnline can reveal.

The astonishing bill run up by almost 24,000 families emerged as George Osborne presses ahead with a scheme to cut child benefit for higher earners in the UK.



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