Are you able to hear the different English accents?

yes its true that up until the 70s you could hear this clipped 'Brief Encounter' type accent, especially if you listened to the news on TV . This has completely changed. It wasn t a particularly natural or widely spoken accent, but it was 'establishment'.

That's its own kind snobbery, what we call 'reverse snobbery' - the idea that it's cool to be an 'everyman' and not one of 'the elites' (a new slur which we also now use to attack people who are well educated and/or successful). That's how a wealthy but ignorant and vulgar man who (to quote Clooney) takes a sh11t in a golden toilet can claim to be a man of the people who stands against 'the elites'.

Aha! There's the rub. You've tipped your hand this time, roz. Now we've come to the crux of the situation. It's an anti-establishment trend which resents anything that smacks of (G_d forbid) middle-class aka bourgeoise values or tradition.

:-)

well that is one way of looking at it if you like.
I see it more as a freedom for the other 99.9 per cent of people to speak and be heard.
You would never hear a regional accent on TV back then. It was London centric, and yes very middle class.

Coronation Street, Terry Wogan, Bruce Forsyth, Arthur Askey (from the 1930s!), Ken Loach's plays, This Sporting Life, Cathy Come Home, Saturday Night and Sunday Morning, Georgy Girl, Alan Bennett, Michael Palin, Percy Thrower, Eamon Andrews, anyone from Scotland...

^^George Formby, Harry Secombe, Whisky Galore, How Green is My Valley, Sid James, Eric Sykes....

oh lol I think i meant the 'establishment' programmes like the news and public information .... you know the ones. No more did u see a brown face either. But NO Lenny Henry YOU ARE NOT THE ONLY BLACK M AN ON TV.

Terry Wogan was a great novelty though wasnt he?

Well there was Moira Stuart reading the news and of course Trevor McDonald, not only brown of face but they both had accents though terribly 'refined' and well modulated examples. Melvyn Bragg is one of the few I can think of with a regional accent on the more serious side of programming. Magnus Magnusson is a very interesting example because he sounds slightly West Country or even Irish at times and of course he's Icelandic but grew up in Scotland. The Old English influence is there in his speech and I think his voice represents what a cultured gentleman of the 17th or 18th century might have sounded like before the RP thing.

Back to the original question expressed in the title of this thread:
Are you able to hear the different English accents?
Yes, I am and I must say it is pretty easy. Possibly because I studied the English phonetics a little bit. A different accent makes makes my understanding of English more difficult to either a geater or a lesser degree. Northern English is OK since I lived in Durham for several months, but Scottish English is terrible for me. On passing through Glasgow one time I felt totally bewildred by the way they speak English. I was able to recognize Australian English some time ago, but I'm not sure I can do it these days.

On the other hand, I am not able to discern between different accents of American English. I know there are three main groups of that in the US, but it only translates for me as one American speaking in a more comprehensible way than another.

I know one way? Listen out for the upward intonation? Even when the utterence is not a question? (Very annoying.)

not until the 80s though. Until then all faces were white as i recall. And even after Moira and Trevor, they were tokens for a long time.

I think it is no fair to call Scottish lingo - English, they used to have their own language before they started using English standard 18th century.

that's right, like Wales and Ireland too. So the way English is spoken in those places, is like English words overlaid onto their old grammar systems....so you have eg different word order and constructions..that change English much more than accents do.

I am endlessly fascinated by this. In Welsh and Irish for example, there is no direct way of saying 'yes' or 'no'.. your answer has to agree with the question. Is Scottish the same?

"Are you going out?" "I am"
"Do you like sausages?" " I do"

This has obviously affected English too,with the endless 'question tags' that are such a nightmare for learners. .."isnt he?" " arent you?" Other more sensible languages like say Spanish, just have one question tag word "verdad?". No wonder so many learners have settled on 'isnt it' (innit) as a generalised question tag, which in turn, has affected the way English is spoken everyday,esp in London.

By the way I think OP's question should be changed to 'are you able to hear the different accents of English' - semantics,. semantics.

But I am not talking about the Scottish lingo, I am talking about Scottish English precisely - the way Scottish people talk in English and this kind of English is being far from standard English.

The original Scottish lingo is referred to as Gaelic today, is a Celtic language originating from Irish and has been preserved on the outskirts of Scotland of which I can name the Hebrides where it has the status of an regional official language.

Is that in Welsh Roz? In Irish we would say "I like" or "I don't like" rather than I do or I don't. We respond with the verb.


Except for comedy, was it Love Thy Neighbour that had a black family living next door? Of course the whole point of it was their colour. Despite being a bit clumsy and cringeworthy it was trying to make a point though in showing the horror of the white man next door and the more accepting attitude of his wife though the point was really more that 'men are idiots, women are the brains of the operation' which was actually the premise of many sit-coms over the years. And there was a black guy in Porridge as far as I remember. It's interesting that brown faces and regional accents were largely confined to comedy and light entertainment.

well exactly and here the auxiliary verb is 'do' .
I am sure you wouldnt answer 'do you live in Poland?' with 'I live' would u? No, you would say, 'I do'. Interestingly....the Welsh for 'I do' is 'ydy' which sounds very similar.

No, the orginal Scotittish is refered as a ole Scott language today..

Jim McLaren, played by Tony Osoba. Like the black couple in Love Thy Neighbour, he was intelligent, if a bit of a nutter. Let's not forget Phillip Smith, played by Don Warrington, a dignified, intelligent foil to Rigsby's bigotry in Rising Damp.

oh lol the African prince, I was just thinking about him...

But that's in English, we don't have that construction in Irish. All I know is that if if somebody asks you:

An maith leat ispíní? Do you like sausages? you respond
'Is maith liom' I like, or 'Ní maith liom' I don't like but there is no way to shorten those to I do or I don't and leave out the word 'like'. Am I making sense?

As for 'Do you live in Poland' you can't say that in Irish, you have to say 'Are you living in Poland?' to which one would respond 'I am' or 'I'm not' Tá mé' or Níl mé' though you can in theory shorten those to just 'Tá' and 'Níl' to correspond to yes or no but it's considered not good Irish to do that.

exactly what I meant..:) thanks
Here the auxhilary very is 'to be'

Yep, from Croydon. Made poor Ruth weak at the knees. What a cast!

Similar in the US except that traditionally the accents were kind of phony made up for TV versions of regional accents.

Pseudo Southern (White) Accents were supposed to be shorthand to let the audience know the character was either good natured and stupid, or malovent and stupid or aristocratic and corrupt (and maybe sexually perverted).

A pseudo NYC working class accent was meant to show a cynical street smarts (even if the city wasn't New York which didn't make much sense).

And Americans' idea of an upper class English accent is often shorthand for evil personified...

IME Polish viewers (even those who are very fluent) don't pick up on those.

Ach and Roz are no doubt too young to remember the Scotittish TV presenter Fyfe Robertson in the 60s and 70s. His accent was crystal clear, and I believe he also spoke a ole Scott language. TV Hogmanay was never complete without Andy Stewart in those days.

Well it works in that example but not in the other of liking or not liking sausages. I don't think you can really apply the rules of English grammar to Irish.

We don't really have auxilliary verbs in Irish, I mean there's no group of verbs defined as auxilliary. As a matter of fact the sausages example doesn't really contain an actual verb at all in the Irish sense because 'is maith liom' translates literally as 'it is good with me' so there's no verb 'to like' being used there. But sure never mind, we won't have an argument about it. Let it not sully the purity of our bond of friendship and good fellowship dear Lady :))


Yes I am indeed too young to remember him. However, I [i]do [i]know of Andy Stewart, the swish of his kilt and Donald Where's Your Troosers. I can give a rousing rendition of that one complete with a very passable accent! It's a shame we can't have a PF Christmas party isn't it, but I'm afraid relations being what they are between several members we'd all be slipping in blood on our way to the bar!

Despite it's small size and population, Scotland has three languages.

1. Scottish English
2. Scots (regarded by many/most linguists as a separate language)
3. Scottish Gaelic (related to but distinct from Irish Gaelic)

I'm sure the situation is actually far more complex but that's the simple breakdown.

So to which group would you assign that "a ole Scott" language mentioned by Irony? This one isn't on your list. It seems Irony meant either Scots or Scottish Gaelic, but then Scots cannot be the 'original' (in the sense of primeval) Scottish language.

I assume he's speaking out of his 4ss as usual and take it about as seriously as his claim that 'beatles' are a threat to Białowieża....

Thank you. Sadly, that was my impression, too.

However, the very same language has been mentioned by Roger5 and he seems to be someone from the British Isles, so the idea of "a ole Scott" cannot be dissmised so easily perhaps?

you miss my point which was that English grammar has in some aspects developed from the old languages.