Restructuring of polish chf mortgage

You have got to love Poles, you guys are acting like the brokers in the UK, 15/20 years ago before the UK market was cleaned up, you are going to have a wave of cases in Poland against resellers

,allegedly these charlatans knowingly miss-sold CHF mortgages and did not advise buyers accordingly, I trust the word of "greeno" and many others who tell the same story.

Peterweg,terms and conditions have no substance unless you can read them...

mortgageaudits.co.uk
missold-mortgages.co.uk

I know its from the UK, these are the types of companies above which will be on the Polish market inside 12 months

Warszawski, can you shed some light on the thought processes of people who invested in these mortgages in Poland without really being aware of the risks?

It seems crazy to me to invest in property in a foreign country if you don't know exactly what you're doing.


As I understand it, under Polish law, if both parties agree to the contract being in x language, then they are legally binding.

A mortgage broker has a responsibility to the client to make sure they are fully informed, the broker should also carry out a risk assessment profiling the client and matching him/her/they up to the correct instrument.As ' Greeneo' has mentioned he was rail roaded into the CHF mortgage, maybe comissions was a deciding factor on what should be sold?

i


As I understand it, Delph the principle of European law overriding national law has actually been around since 1963.
Now the question to ask did Greeneo sign his contract in the UK with an acting UK reseller?


Greeneo, has pointed out he dealt with a respectable company, the main point is was there a violation of EU consumer-protection rules.?

It may not be so sinister - I'm only going on what I know, but CHF mortgages were preferred for one simple reason : even with the CHF swing in recent years, interest rates are still dramatically lower in CHF than in PLN. My mortgage is sitting at 4% right now in PLN - but I'm under no illusions that it's going to stay there, I'd expect it to go back to 6% sooner rather than later. The CHF on the other hand won't be going anywhere - so in this sense, it did offer stable interest rates, and it seems that many people that took CHF mortgages are still ahead despite the currency fluctuations.


Hmm - this is where we get into very tricky areas of law. I actually don't think that this represents a potential angle of attack - if it did, then you'd have people signing up for all sorts of credit agreements in other EU countries only to cancel them on the basis of not understanding the documents.


It's a good question, and it may depend on the exact arrangements. If he did everything in Poland, then I suspect he's out of luck - but if he used UK-based companies...well, then things get interesting.

No no no no no, the mortgage broker needs to make as much money as possible because thats what we are taught to do from a young age - look after no:1 and screw everybody else.

It's silly to complain on bank that it didn't inform about risk of currency fluctuation. Anyway in 2008 most of people were really sure that in 2011 Poland will have euro, and problem with fluctuation will disappear. Government also thought so. We were all observing Slovakia converting to euro, believing, that soon the same will happen with Poland. So the crisis is to blame too.

As for banks chasing debtor throughout the borders I think it's likely to happen when you mean EU borders. Probably it's not happening yet if you are sitting convenient in UK, but if they can charge for speeding tickets, why not for that. IMHO only out of EU country would be save.


I don't know details but personal bankruptcy law is nearly not existing in Poland. They introduced it few years ago I think and since then only dozen of people took advantage of it. There must be a reason for that.

Delph, there is a big difference between a qualified investor or HNWI and a 9-5er making a wage when it comes to law and financial instruments. The selling of financial instruments to the general public in European countries is based on consumer rights and transparency,the first question a broker should ask 'has my client been fully/duly informed about both benefits & risks'. The Peterwegs of this world would have you believe its enough to suggest you should have contacted a IFA, I believe most people like ' Greeneo' got themselves sucked up in the hype and would have signed anything to get in on the game, still most Polish mortgage brokers should have been transparent and advised their clients they are not mortgage brokers as a broker buys and sell, they are in fact mortgage salespeople as they are only selling financial products and work on a commission, the law in the UK has now changed if you want to see a IFA from a bank he will charge you by the hour for his time, he should no longer give free advice in order to sell a financial product his company markets.

I don't have a CHF mortgage so I am not personally involved , on the other hand I don't like to see foreign real estate investors being taken for a ride because they won't come back. I have an issue with the whole way the private residential market operates itself in Poland, its not transparent the Polish real estate brokers are the worst I have ever had the displeasure of dealing with, their commission are humongous and their attitude is "holier than thou" whenever I buy property in PL I do everything I can not to pay real estate agents a commision.


Are you sure about this?

I believe if you look back and read qualified opinion there was more against than for the adoption of the Euro and this is still the case.


You are conditioned into believing no seller has a responsibility. The buck always stops somewhere my friend.

Yes the high net worth individuals, hedge fund managers, investment banks, seed capital companies etc have teams of experts analyzing the market and studying the data in order to find out precisely where the best place to put these rich peoples money might be. The rich get richer and poor get shafted.


Conditioned Warszawski, hallelujah, i think maybe somebody is beginning to get on board with the train of thought.

Nobody in this discussion is Polish.

greeno, I presume, went out side the UK investment protection by investing abroad. He already took on a currency risk, that sort of descision is an investment which he isn't protected against. He chose the wrong currency risk. His choice.


Not quite. EU directs laws which individual countries interpret and apply according to their legal system.


Going outside your home country's financial services protective bubble to make a speculative investment (in foreign currency) makes you qualified investor not a consumer. Thats a very concerted and deliberate act to bypass the FSA and its advice.


At the time an CHF mortage was seen as a very good idea by the majority of mortgage buyers. Turns out that predicting the future is not very easy, but that doesn't mean it was a deliberate rip-off by the sellers. The buyers paid far less in interest pavements which was their motivation.


The volatility of the exchange rate and the stupidity of people who bough foreign currency loans. Why should I pay for other peoples stupidity, because socialists like you want somebody else to pay for it, don't you?

CHF mortgage owners are not stupid people in many cases they are probably ill informed.


I am far from being a socialist, I am a true capitalist and I also value all citizens and their rights to be fully informed regardless of their earning potential.

Of course you are Warszawski, the capitalist system has served you very well indeed, i mean if it hadnt you wouldn't be able to afford 3,000 PLN a month on extra dance and art classes for your two children.

However im wondering: What does the Christian in you say about the 3,000,000,000 (almost half the population) of this planet living on less than $2 a day as a direct result of the capitalist system of which you advocate?

They made a bad investment, doesn't make them stupid, I agree. But the responsibility rests with those who made the investment, not who sold them it.


Given that every other system has completely failed, I'd say capitalism has allowed those 3 billion to be born and grow. Under communist there wouldn't be 3billion poor people, there would be 3 billion dead or unborn.

The only people responsible for poor people are those who had children while in poverty, the parents are them one who made the only informed decision about it.