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How Poles can pay wlasny? (mortgage)


ThisWizKid    
6 Aug 2017  #1
Hello there,

It seems that you have to pay in Poland wlasny of 10% - 20% when you request a mortrage. It's for me personally not a big problem but I know a lot of Poles that earn not more then 2K bruto per month and still are able to afford to buy a home.

Is there a trick they could use to not pay wlasny or do they take an extra loan for this? It's really hard to believe that Poles can have e.g. 60K PLN on their bank account.

Cheers.
jon357 64 | 14,382    
6 Aug 2017  #2
Poland wlasny of 10% - 20%

From family, inheritance, loans, securities. Some people have far more in savings than you'd expect, plus money within a family.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,090    
6 Aug 2017  #3
Jon is right about that - don't let their small salaries fool you. Polish people are savers generally esp the older generations and money is passed on through the family through businesses, real estate, inheritance, etc. They may make a small salary but they're frugal and smart with their money - they save and invest it too. Its not like the us (in general of course) where people spend more money in a year than their annual salary. Of course there are those that live beyond their means like everywhere but in general poles don't live beyond their means.

Also a lot of poles work abroad like in Germany then they come back to poland and spend the money they made there.

Notice even at the galerie (large shopping malls) there will be tons of people walking around but most are just window shopping. They'll walk around and maybe have just 1 shopping bag per group or family. They may buy like 1 shirt or a pair of shoes but they don't go on like massive shopping sprees or buy a ton of stuff in one trip to the mall. When I was in poland last time I was literally the only person with a shopping cart in the entire mall. I bought a lot of dress shoes, button down shirts, etc bc they're very high quality and way cheaper than here. However name brands esp athletic companies like Adidas Nike etc cost more than in us in general. For example a nice dress shirt can be purchased for 80 to 120 zl wheras in the us a similar shirt would cost at least $50, $70, $100 plus
Sean80    
7 Aug 2017  #4
When my friend bought his apartment he was living in Ireland. He didn't get a mortgage. When the builder was going to build a new block people paid a deposit, then some instalments as it was been built. So many people can do it that way.
Roger5 1 | 1,463    
7 Aug 2017  #5
plus money within a family

I'd guess that very few elderly people outside cities have bank accounts. It would be interesting to know just how much cash lies under Polish beds.

I know a lot of Poles that earn not more then 2K bruto per month and still are able to afford to buy a home.

Really? Not on their pay, that's for sure.

they're frugal and smart with their money

Very true of the older generations; not so with the younger ones.
jon357 64 | 14,382    
7 Aug 2017  #6
It would be interesting to know just how much cash lies under Polish beds.

Tons, a lot in foreign currency.

Very true of the older generations; not so with the younger ones.

Levels of personal credit can be high, some from questionable high-interest lenders.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,090    
7 Aug 2017  #7
@jon357

Interest and inflation are what causes poverty and misery. These are the worst two inventions of man imo. Our entire world economy is basically based on swapping debt contracts and charging for doing it.

My grandpa runs a small kantor in a small town and all the time people come in to change out thousands of pounds and euros at a time. Dollars are a bit more rare.

I know for a fact many elderly people keep lots of foreign cash in their house as a sort of hedge. Many remember the communist years and instability plus many don't have a whole lot of trust in banks. I can't really blame em. Only problem is if you're just keeping a bunch of money laying around that money becomes worth less and less as time goes on.
Roger5 1 | 1,463    
7 Aug 2017  #8
don't have a whole lot of trust in banks

And they are absolutely right.

if you're just keeping a bunch of money lying around, that money becomes worth less and less as time goes on.

True, but old Poles are not as green as they're cabbage-looking. They know how to use those Kantors, too.
Peeweeher    
8 Aug 2017  #9
And they are absolutely right.

Why? Can you point out anyone with less than the deposit guarantee who has lost it since the war?
Roger5 1 | 1,463    
8 Aug 2017  #10
I wasn't suggesting that their money might be at risk, but that banks everywhere are unscrupulous. I personally rejected a mortgage deal which would have completely tied my hands and incurred costs far above what were once considered reasonable. Most people don't know the meaning of the word 'usuary'. And no wonder. Usuary is normal practice in today's financial world.
polinv    
8 Aug 2017  #11
Well if you want to own assets that you can maximise and legally sell on you have to work within the rules, whatever they may be.

As for a deposit, a month or two working abroad during holiday allowance quickly builds someone a lump sum for those with a job and small savings already. With 30 year loans on offer, repayments are manageable for most even with flats costing upwards of 250k. There have been schemes such as MdM, which covers around 20% of the cost of the flat, often in fact the deposit.
peterweg 36 | 2,315    
8 Aug 2017  #12
I personally rejected a mortgage deal which would have completely tied my hands and incurred costs far above what were once considered reasonable.

Wasn't that a short term development loan? There are very good reasons for the terms you were offered, chief among them is that very large numbers of borrows don't pay the money back on time which results in damage to a bank that exceeds the financial benefit they may achieve.

And by damage, I mean lose their banking license. The result is banks don't/won't do those sort of loans and the cost to do them for other companies is vastly higher (banks can borrow for as a little as 0% interest, non- banks pay 4-10%)
Roger5 1 | 1,463    
8 Aug 2017  #13
There are very good reasons for the terms you were offered

I don't see how you can say that, as you are unfamiliar with the circumstances. The loan was to finish a 70% completed house with half a hectare of land and all services, which would have served as security. I won't go into the terms of the loan as I have done so elsewhere on this forum several years ago. Suffice it to say that I was certainly not a security risk.
peterweg 36 | 2,315    
8 Aug 2017  #14
What you consider a risk is quite different from what the regulator considers a risk, and they set the rules not the bank or you and I.

For instance, did you know that the exit strategy of a sale cost twice as much for a bank as a remortgage (with another bank)?
Roger5 1 | 1,463    
8 Aug 2017  #15
I'm sure you know far more about banking and finance than I do, so I can't argue. My gripe with banks is that the mortgage interest rates they charge now bear no comparison with the rates charged thirty or forty years ago. No doubt there are reasons for this, but I suspect greed to be the major one. Anyway, as I said, I put my hands up to being ignorant about banking, but usuary remains in my lexicon.
polinv    
8 Aug 2017  #16
In Poland your security is considered only after you can provide proof of employment or income in case of a business and it must be Polish based to avoid yourself a lot of trouble. There are certain allowances for business loans, but for private loans such as personal or for a house or flat, your tax return is the be able and end all. Without suitable income on your PIT, you will not get a loan and generally banks will want the PIT from the previous year to run its rule over. If there is a big difference between what you are earning now and last year, then they may take it into account, but you still wont be offered as much as you would once the tax year is completed. As for loans for property where you won't be living or commercial, you need to prove you can meet the costs of the loan without taking into account any future earnings to be derived from the property in question.


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