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Residential real estate values go down in Poland


milky 13 | 1,657
18 Dec 2011 #151
not so long ago

are you in negative equity?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
18 Dec 2011 #152
Nope. Not that it concerns me, I'll only sell the place once it's paid off - which should be within 7 years.

You know, because both partners are working in good jobs and can afford to make big payments.
pip 10 | 1,659
18 Dec 2011 #153
Indeed, when I was buying a place not so long ago, it was amazing how little effort people made when it came to selling a place. I think - honestly - only one person actually had a place that you looked at and said "wow, I could live here".

thanks for this- this is my entire point. little to no effort being made in resale homes. they just dump them and move to better- but dumping would require a significant drop in price- which isn't the case.

there is an untapped market in resale homes. it is not what is on tv by any means- being flipping houses or house dr. If I had the time I would do something like this with small apartments- but another reason not to is having to sit in a notary's office for two days in order to complete a sale.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
18 Dec 2011 #154
It's actually something that I can't understand at all.

We went to one agent, who had a lot of unsold property on her books. You'd think such a person would be doing everything in their power to sell the places, but - she came across as totally disinterested, and sulked when we made it clear that we wanted at least 10% off the asking prices.

Let's see -

One place - 7 people living in the flat, two drunk guys, babcia in the kitchen cooking potatoes and the place utterly wrecked. Oh, and one naked kid walking around.

Second place - kids toys everywhere, washing hanging up, full of clutter and utterly disorganised.

What you say about "first 8 seconds" is true - if the place doesn't work on first glance, it doesn't work at all.
milky 13 | 1,657
18 Dec 2011 #155
good jobs and can afford to make big payments.

yea,I agree, people generally don't mind making big payment as long as they're not drowning in negative equity.
Foreigner4 12 | 1,768
18 Dec 2011 #156
ok so 8 seconds may sound ridiculous as a number but put it this way. the moment a potential buyer enters a home and shuts the door- the first glance is the deciding factor.

There is no way to objectively measure that. I don't know what else to tell you on the matter. If you can't accept that and we're not actually dealing in extremes then I have no idea how your brain works.

It is simply a widely shared opinion by people within an industry whose job it is to maintain their hegemony in this market. When people start believing that everyone isn't an emotional buyer who can use their brain to do more than see beyond the pale then people who make staging into a livelihood lose the chance to rip people off. Is staging important? Yes, but what is considered staging and what is considered deceit are often committed by the same ilk and that is probably where some of the resentment towards the whole practice comes from. That and it's all got completely out of hand- cleanliness and presentableness have jumped the shark to home fashion.

a whole useless industry sprung up in US and some think the rest should follow. Remodeling. Staging. Flipping the house. It has to be modern. Anything short of steel appliances and granite counter tops won't do. What color should the walls be painted, what should it smell like. Bunch of lemmings buying into it. Buying a million dollar house and getting swayed by the color of the walls, or so the statistics say. Frivolous and short-sighted. I know there are idiots that bought houses that way, but nobody I know.

^ what he wrote.
pip 10 | 1,659
18 Dec 2011 #157
you know it is really stupid when posts get deleted. it makes the rest seem out of context. jesus, it is natural to veer of topic- why does it have to get deleted. just stupid.
f stop 25 | 2,513
18 Dec 2011 #158
What you say about "first 8 seconds" is true - if the place doesn't work on first glance, it doesn't work at all.

seriously, you could not separate a piece of real estate from its inhabitants? I stand corrected, then. ;)

^ what he wrote.

She. Of no salient points. I do like your posts.
Foreigner4 12 | 1,768
18 Dec 2011 #159
^yikes, that was a pretty silly oversight on my part. :)
*awaits removal of post*
BRS 2 | 48
19 Dec 2011 #160
Is there really disagreement on if cleaning up and improving an apartment you are trying to sell is a good idea? (call it staging if you want). This is not dishonest, it's just smart (you may even decide you like the apartment you are trying to sell when you are done staging it).

Maybe I need to stop 'staging' my apartment on a regular basis and just let the dirt build up.

Reality is it is difficult to sell an apartment - any thing you can do helps.

When I viewed my apartment is was a very hot period (summer of 2010) and the display apartment had central air which probably influenced my decision too much (immeadiate feeling of comfort in the apartment).

Back to the topic, apartment prices are falling, how far remains to be seen. Additionally I think we are already seeing a lot more price differences between the different locations of apartments.
cms 9 | 1,255
19 Dec 2011 #161
Not sure whether magazine style staging makes a difference and the 8 seconds thing is certainly nonsense but just making it clean and tidy and showing some respect to buyers does make a difference - if that is not done then I do wonder about what other things are wrong with the place.

Might come as a surprize to some but I've bought 4 places here and still have 3. The last time I was properly looking (about 4 years ago) I was amazed that peole did not lock their stupid big dogs up before viewing so that on approach to the house you got scared out your wits and then had some frustrated alsatian following you about for the 20 mins you were there.
Foreigner4 12 | 1,768
19 Dec 2011 #162
Is there really disagreement on if cleaning up and improving an apartment you are trying to sell is a good idea?

NO!

This is not dishonest, it's just smart (you may even decide you like the apartment you are trying to sell when you are done staging it).

No one has insinuated that is dishonest in the least. There are other practices which are dishonest which SOME people consider staging but bringing that up was only to illustrate there is a departure point between staging and deceit. Hope that clears things up for you.
f stop 25 | 2,513
19 Dec 2011 #163
this gets better and better! Now the "stagers" just clean up the place. And write books about it. ;)
milky 13 | 1,657
20 Dec 2011 #164
The housing market is seeing a continued decline in the prices of apartments. In November 2011, the average decrease for the 15 major cities was 1.5%, according to a reported prepared by Szybko.pl, Metrohouse and Expander.

Last month saw a decline in asking prices. On a monthly basis, the biggest decreases compared to October came in Sopot (-4.2%), Gdansk and Gdynia (-3%) and Lodz (-2.8%). In the last quarter, the largest decreases were recorded in Sopot (-6.4%), and Wroclaw, Gdynia, Gdansk, Lodz, Opole and Torun where prices fell by more than 3%. On an annual basis, asking prices in Lodz tumbled 11% down, while prices in Gdansk and Wroclaw shrank by nearly 9%.

Concerning transaction prices, the market slightly levelled off in November compared to the preceding month. In some cases, average prices even moved a notch up. Declines in average transaction prices from October 2011 were seen in Poznan (-2.2%) and Lodz (0.3%). In annual terms, the decrease in transaction prices in the latter city was 9.5% and was the largest in all the analysed towns.

The widest gap between asking prices and transaction prices, of more than 10%, was seen in Gdynia. In other cities, it ranged from 4.5% in Warsaw to 8.4% in Krakow.

constructionpoland.com/114705/Housing-prices-continue-to-slide.shtml
BRS 2 | 48
21 Dec 2011 #165
Returning to the topic of small apartments:

ca.news.yahoo/video/canews-22424922/micro-apartments-27643164.html

In Vancouver Canada new 20 to 30 m2 apartments were put on the market for rent at $850/month (about PLN 2,800) and went quickly. Looks like Poland does not have a monopoly on these small apartments.
wielki pan 2 | 250
24 Dec 2011 #166
The housing market is seeing a continued decline in the prices of apartments. In November 2011, the average decrease for the 15 major cities was 1.5%, according to a reported prepared by Szybko.pl, Metrohouse and Expander

The news on falling prices just keeps on getting worse...

thenews.pl/1/12/Artykul/81024,Housing-prices-falling-in-Poland
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
24 Dec 2011 #167
The news on falling prices just keeps on getting worse...

It would be interesting to compare the selling prices of 'new' properties vs older properties, actually.
milky 13 | 1,657
24 Dec 2011 #168
The news on falling prices just keeps on getting worse...

Looks like there's an escalation in the speed,November had a larger drop than the entire third quarter.
Avalon 4 | 1,068
25 Dec 2011 #169
The housing market is seeing a continued decline in the prices of apartments. In November 2011, the average decrease for the 15 major cities was 1.5%, according to a reported prepared by Szybko.pl, Metrohouse and Expander.

My God, a huge 1.5% fall, call out the military. There will be riots in the streets. The financial sector will collapse. Another prediction to complemente the last three years
milky 13 | 1,657
25 Dec 2011 #170
over a period of 12 months?? and after January prices usually decrease faster, so??? 25% fall seems highly likely by the summer or end of 2012, if not a lot more. Their will laughter on the streets,more like it, as developers cry bankruptcy....Happy Christmas to all you scrooges .
Avalon 4 | 1,068
25 Dec 2011 #171
over a period of 12 months?? and after January prices usually decrease faster, so??? 25% fall seems highly likely by the summer or end of 2012, if not a lot more.

So the calculations are, 1.5% after 12 months. At that rate, it means another 16 years before you get that 25%, but your latest prediction is that it will happen next year?

Their will laughter on the streets,more like it, as developers cry bankruptcy.

How many development companies have gone bankrupt?....care to give us the names of any?
milky 13 | 1,657
25 Dec 2011 #172
1.5% after 12 months

No, 1.5% after 1 month actually;

In November 2011, the average decrease for the 15 major cities was 1.5%, according to a reported prepared by Szybko.pl, Metrohouse and Expander.
Last month saw a decline in asking prices. On a monthly basis, the biggest decreases compared to October came in Sopot (-4.2%), Gdansk and Gdynia (-3%) and Lodz (-2.8%). In the last quarter, the largest decreases were recorded in Sopot (-6.4%), and Wroclaw, Gdynia, Gdansk, Lodz, Opole and Torun where prices fell by more than 3%. On an annual basis, asking prices in Lodz tumbled 11%

This is all pointing towards,' as predicted', a significant drop in prices. 15-25% by the end of next year, at the very latest.
rt3d 10 | 46
25 Dec 2011 #173
pip most property buyers are not the same, most buyer are indeed very different with different taste
E,g: some buyer who buy property look past unstaged offers, so they can re-develop their purchase
and then resell it for a larger sum which was paid
making a profit..

do not categories all property buyer to one basket.. in fact
in all businesses
OP peterweg 37 | 2,319
27 Dec 2011 #174
It would be interesting to compare the selling prices of 'new' properties vs older properties, actually.

knock yourself out, click on Check average prices

en.otodom.pl

Choose a location and its shows average asking price trends for the last six months for both primary and secondary property.

Down 2.2% in Krakow for second hand property and up for new.
Harry
27 Dec 2011 #175
Down 4% in Krakow for second hand property and up for new.

Up for new-build properties? But isn't the sky supposed to be falling?
OP peterweg 37 | 2,319
27 Dec 2011 #176
Asking prices, not selling. so only indicative for new, as they are not entirely comparable.

It could explain the 8% between asking and selling prices in Krakow.

(4% was a mistake, BTW)
Wroclaw 44 | 5,384
27 Dec 2011 #177
It could explain the 8% between asking and selling prices in Krakow

isn't it normal to price a house with a 10% margin. just asking.
OP peterweg 37 | 2,319
27 Dec 2011 #178
Yes, but the difference in Warsaw is less than 5%. The point is there must be a reason why new build prices have suddenly risen this month, contradicting the secondary market, the tend and everywhere else in Poland. It would have to be repeated to be truly significant, one month could be a fluke.
Wroclaw 44 | 5,384
27 Dec 2011 #179
The point is there must be a reason why new build prices have suddenly risen this month, contradicting the secondary market, the tend and everywhere else in Poland.

ok, thanks.
milky 13 | 1,657
27 Dec 2011 #180
Just caught the tail end of the news(panorama) on Polish TV, they are predicting a 30% drop in real-estate prices.


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