What do you pay in rent/mortgage in Poland?

Can you clarify?

But it makes, instant, tax paying capitalists. I don't know if there is a better alternative, screw the poverty stricken parents or the children. The parents can rely on bank of Mum & Dad, better than the State.

It was a massive gift, but inflation was the gift - its almost wiped out the debt.

delphiandomine

Its a difficult one - it has had lots of consequences on the market now but at the time it was probably the best thing to do - at least it gave people a roof over their head at the time that shock therapy was needed but obviously causing huge job losses.

If homelessness was added to hyperinflation, mass unemployment and the release of social tensions then Poland could easily have gone the way of some of the weaker states like Ukraine. Instead it stayed with the richer group like Czech and Hungary.

mine used to write "1280zl", the date, and scribble her name. i literally had a pile of torn corners of notebook paper as "receipts".


which, like i said, means that poles will have to take big mortgages in order to get new construction. i don't think many poles have that kind of money. plus, they've been living that way for years and years.


sure, but that requires people to pay mortgages. mortgages most poles can't afford.

my wife's parents and most of her family are average "middle class" poles. modest jobs, modest flats. without question, if they suddenly had a mortgage of 200,000-300,000, even with their salaries they have now after working 25-30 years at their jobs, they couldn't afford to eat or cloth themselves. it would literally bankrupt them in 3 months. the ONLY reason they have been able to go all these years on that income is because their apartment was given to them for next to nothing during commie times.

Poland simply could not function if those "free homes" dried up. It's no mystery why so many older generations out there still hold a special place in their heart for communism.

You don't think, because you don't know them.


They most certainly aren't middle class if they have "modest jobs and modest flats". A mortgage of 300,000 is around 2000zl a month. That's around half of the average monthly wage in Wroclaw. If it would bankrupt them, then they most certainly aren't middle class at all.

Fuzzy, you didn't have a car and barely travelled around Poland - how would you have a hope in knowing about what actually lies beyond the end of the tram lines?

As I said before - perhaps if you mixed in better circles, you'd see how Polish people actually live.

What you are missing is that when a large part of the population have big value assets. They can use that as collateral to borrow money. Which they can give to their children to buy more property or buy them selves.

Of course when they die, their children get a inheritance of 3-400k pln - with which they can buy more property - or spend.

This is the method millions of British used to buy property in Spain and large drove its property boom and crash.

funny that the houses in my end of Warsaw are selling. Who then is buying them? All the houses in my osiedle are owned by Poles.

More important is when you bought it. Houses in Southern California that were going for $20,000 in the 60s were $200,000 in the 80s and half a million before the bubble burst.

In order to lower my monthly mortgage payment, I first paid off a large amount of the prinicipal balance. Afterwards, I had my loan refinanced at a much lower interest rate. That's why my monthly payment is dirt-cheap. Much less than most California resident's rent or car payment for that matter.

Pay less by borrowing less. What a novel concept! :->
Before moving to Poland we were living in a house bought in the 60s for $20,000 and paying $1800/month rent. The landlady said she was going to raise the rent to $2500 when we moved out.

people that can afford to live in Warsaw and buy homes in Warsaw....live in Warsaw.

There are millions of Poles that are where they are today because they've been living rent/mortgage free their whole lives because they commandeered their home from their family or their spouse's family. Just ask Delphiandomine, he's been riding that gravy train since day 1 in Poland.

just imagine how much more you could have done if from say the ages of 25 to 35, you had no rent/mortgage.....you could buy cars for cash, open up a small business or two, go on vacation where ever, etc.

I know a very wealthy couple in Poland, they own gas stations mostly with a few random small businesses thrown in there along with real estate. You know how they got started? Their mother moved to the USA in the 1970's and sent money to them for years. They took that cash and built on it.

I stand by my statements earlier: When the commie blocs and old run down houses "in the village" are no longer inhabitable and Poles have to buy their houses and apartments with their own cash, Poland is in for a rude awakening because the lifestyle millions of Poles live today is all thanks to their decades of free digs.

I am not disagreeing with you but you are making a blanket statement. It doesn't apply to many of our friends or my family. My husband got an education and experience from Canada- he paid for everything we have on his own- with no help or money from his family.

Fuzzy has no idea, because he never associated with people actually earning money. All his stories about eating "goracy kubek" and so on - it's pretty obvious that he was living a life of survival here, not the life that you, me or many others live.


In other words, people who actually want to work hard.


Fuzzy, I don't think it would make much difference to where I am today if I was paying 0 or 450zl a month for a room.


What Fuzzy doesn't seem to understand at all is that there are plenty of wealthy people in Poland. He didn't earn the big bucks himself, and he spent what he had on travelling back to the States. As I say - his bitterness all seems to stem from the fact that he couldn't succeed in Poland.

There are 40 million in Poland, you and your husband are 2. I am clearly making a reference to the overall effects it would have, and soon will have, on Poland.


right, because most nice flats in big cities run 450zl per month. i had 35 sq. meters in a commie bloc in Wroclaw a 15 min. walk to the center.....1280zl/month. My American buddy lived a few blocks from the rynek, that ran 1800zl/month. besides.....how would you all like to have another 450zl a month in your pocket?......or would it not make any difference. you are totally in love with yourself.

I'd ask you how much of your wiife's money bought the house you currently live in now, but you'd flat out lie about it anyhow.


I just can't respond to this crap anymore, it's so senseless. I have no doubt that I earned, at the very least, as much as you when I lived in Poland. You talk like I lived under a bridge and begged for money. You're ridiculous and just offensive.

yes we are two. All my husbands colleagues are Polish except for a few expats in management. They all make bank. They own houses, flats, cars--whatever. Commercial real estate in Warsaw is good money. The companies my husband leases to are probably 90% staffed by Poles- if they are Polish companies than it is 100% staffed by Poles.

I lived in Warsaw 15 years ago and also paid through the roof for a **** flat in a communist block. Times have changed since then. Poles are educated and at least in Warsaw, the income is good --they can afford to buy apartments and cars and all the other stuff that goes with it.

I have said before- my carpenter, who is 31, and has no post secondary education- just on the job training- pulls in good money. He owns a house, two cars, takes two holidays a year and now has a baby on the way. He grew up in the blocks in Pruszkow just outside of Warsaw- hard place to live but with hard work he has managed to be successful.

I think your synopsis on Poland is wrong. Of course those in villages and smaller towns don't see the wealth that the country is experiencing- and perhaps you are right there but those that live in cities and have educations are able to succeed and become first time home owners by starting small.

My carpenters brother is 27- owns his own flat in a new build in Bielany/Warsaw. He has a large one bedroom --he has to rent out the bedroom to a student to help with the mortgage payments- but he is thrilled with his purchase.

if I'm right there, then I'm right overall, because "villages and smaller towns" make up for the majority of the country's population.

Yes you are right.. The people you're arguing with don't even think that there is a property bubble in Poland; even though the average house cost 15-20 time the average net wage.

No it doesn't.

And I'm flabergasted at your attempts of diversion.

Are you completely out of your mind? I just described, in detail, exactly how uneven your relationship is. And now, because I bought my wife a plane ticket to see my friends and family for the first time over Christmas, you want to accuse me of being in an "uneven relationship"? Put the pipe down, pappy, you bought some bad crack this week.

Oh, and if what I wrote was untrue......deny it.


I took home more money than my DoS. Why would I want that job?

Managerial responsibility? What....put together work schedules for a bunch of nutty ESL teachers and not get compensated nearly enough for the frustration? Sounds like a dream come true. Sorry man, but where I was, I made plenty of cash, called my own shots, had Saturday hours if I wanted them, and being a freelancer, I could walk at any moment. I was a free man at the schools I worked at and they were all very eager to give me as many hours as I wanted.

Beyond that, my wife and I were already planning our exit after about the 2 1/2 year mark for me in Poland and we left after 4 years there so no, I didn't persue anything further than "ESL Teacher". I was more than happy to just sit on cruise control where I was and enjoy the work schedule and classes I put together for myself for the remaining time I had left in Poland.

I had some great contracts during that time, too. I remember during my last year there, I traveled several times to this little town near the Czech border to teach this 1 week intensive course with business execs in this cute little....well, hotel I guess you could call it (gospodarstwo agroturystyczne ) and we had 3 square meals a day, beautiful countryside to walk around during breaks, a bar to sit at at night, I went on morning runs almost every day before classes (the villagers used to look at me like I was insane, I guess it was my running gear.....ha, one lady yelled to me as I passed, "who are you running from?!"......good times....) and the food we had at this place was just fantastic. Was a great deal, I ate good, had great students, lots of fresh air, and I was compensated well for it.

But hey, everyone judges success in different ways.

You didn't describe anything, you just described how you *want* it to be. You know, to reassure yourself that you didn't miserably fail in Poland.


I told you already - 50/50% split.


It's called "career". Far better than being on the bottom rung, working as a freelancer and always at the whim of a DoS.

Dress it up how you like, but with no umowa o prace, no job security and being always at risk of being deemed "too expensive" and culled, it's not a great lifestyle.


Fair enough. I can't imagine ever wanting to sit on cruise control, but hey.


True.

Fuzzy, out of interest, did you go back to your previous career in the USA?

You're lying.


Earth to Delphiandomine........I answered to NOBODY. Hell, I barely spoke to my DoS.....and I earned more. I already explained why I didn't persue anything else. What do you not understand?

Hey Delph, how many years did you work under a DoS? My guess, you still do.


now you're just making $hit up.


lindenia. Now THAT'S failure.

Is it still the "What do you pay in rent/mortgage?" thread?

Or is it the thread "The(un)happy life of Fuzzywickets in Poland prior to leaving for the US"?

You wish I was.


Somehow, I find it hard to believe that anyone in Poland would allow anyone, especially a foreigner that kind of power and influence. Barely speaking to him/her doesn't mean that you were "powerful" - I rarely saw most of mine, too.


Not really. We all know that freelancers in Poland have no power whatsoever, which is why schools like them.


Keep on repeating that :)

(because of it, I have my current job and a shitload of contacts in Poland. Not everyone sees the sense in the hassle of running a business when they're offered a great, stable job with plenty of responsibility)

RIGHT.

I'd have more to say about the topic but Delph would surely chime in immediately and tell us how poor I was, that I didn't have a car, that he didn't like my career choices, and that I ate too much packet soup.


Oh, it was great. Being really good earns certain luxuries, me boy.


Come to think of it, let's get this back on topic Delph: What do you pay in rent/mortgage? After all, you know the rules, if you post and don't bother to tell us what you pay, we will all just assume you don't pay. In your case, it would simply be par for the course.

We actually know what the German government is paying to the EU budget, but we can see nowhere in this thread what rent/mortgage do you pay?

that's the spirit!

Delph and gdyniaguy, what do you pay?

I guess we'll just assume you don't pay.

This does not apply to Poland but I would think the economics are the same.

uk.finance.yahoo/news/buying-is-cheaper-than-renting.html

nope, the economics are not the same

I already posted somewhere above - around 2200zl all in. Nothing exceptionally huge, nothing exceptionally small. My flat is in an exceptionally warm building, so the heating bills are almost non-existent - which makes a hell of a difference.

And? is that all you can offer? I am happy to read what you have to say.


The people you are arguing with seem to know what they are talking about, unlike you Milky:-

wbj.pl/article-59539-housing-expensive-for-poles.html

8 and a half times salary is about the same as the UK