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Dzialki - allotment gardens regulations in Poland


f stop 25 | 2,513
12 Jul 2012 #1
"The Constitutional Tribunal ruled on Wednesday that more than 20 regulations of the current law on family allotment gardens are unconstitutional."
Can someone help me find what 20 regulations, exactly?
And what do you think about these allotment gardens (działki)? I always thought it was one of the good, quaint aspects of Polish life. But, is it a leftover from the occupation, when we felt safer being able to grow our own tomatoes?

There are about million of them, mostly used by pensioners. Would this land be of more use if it was converted to public parks?
ShawnH 8 | 1,498
12 Jul 2012 #2
I hope one of the new regulations doesn't affect dziadek's ability to operate the family still on these allotments.
polishmama 3 | 279
12 Jul 2012 #3
I don't know a single member of my family, young and old, who don't have działki. They love it. It's not just growing your own food, it's going out and being with Nature, something deep in the hearts of all Poles. Also, organic food for practically free that you grew yourself? Sweet!

I assume you mean this news: I'll look for the regulations and post when I find them.

thenews.pl/1/6/Artykul/105575,Polands-urban-allotments-under-threat

Play the voice clip to get more idea... It's in English, btw.
OP f stop 25 | 2,513
12 Jul 2012 #4
Interesting..
so now, these plots of land are privately owned? Can one buy your neighbours' plots? Build a big house on it? Not pay taxes?
My understanding that those were just given for garden use, but the land still belonged to the state.
Has that changed?
jon357 63 | 14,255
12 Jul 2012 #5
You might be able to lease more than one plot but the allotment asociations who own the freehold wouldn't allow anyone to do that. There is a very strict size limit to the buildings and year round occupancy isn't allowed (though very occasionally happens)

Remember though that the word dzialka just means plot of land. If it isn't on one of the recreational dzialka schemes people can do whatever they want.
OP f stop 25 | 2,513
12 Jul 2012 #6
I'm referring to the tiny little plots of land in Warsaw that were alloted, for the purpose of gardening, to 'exemplary' citizens and their families.

How does one go about getting one now?
polishmama 3 | 279
12 Jul 2012 #7
Got the scoop from my family, property tax will essentially be assessed, according to Babcia by them counting your trees, bushes, etc., according to Wujek, by size. My Babcia, for example, will be forced to pay 2,000 zl per year on her działka. That's quite a bit, I'm actually shocked that they will assess that much but hey, welcome to Capitalism, Poland.
jon357 63 | 14,255
12 Jul 2012 #8
I'm referring to the tiny little plots of land in Warsaw that were alloted, for the purpose of gardening, to 'exemplary' citizens and their families.
How does one go about getting one now?

With difficulty. Leases do come up for sale now and again but usually they're sold very quickly to people who know the vendor. From time to time there's a small ad in the newspaper but they tend to be snapped up right away. Most people who want a dzialka nowadays have to buy a piece of land privately.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,771
13 Jul 2012 #9
according to Wujek, by size. My Babcia, for example, will be forced to pay 2,000 zl per year on her działka. That's quite a bit, I'm actually shocked that they will assess that much but hey, welcome to Capitalism, Poland.

It will be by size - entirely the same as any other property.

I'm not convinced that she'll have to pay 2000zl - unless she's got a huge one. A lot of people were blatantly fed misinformation about this whole thing - as per usual :/

What hasn't been pointed out in this thread is that the issue of taxation is a thorny one - if you look on an average one in the city, there are many semi-permanent houses there, including allegedly "summer" houses that are clearly fit for all year habitation. This is what the Constitutional Tribunal has picked up on - along with the de-facto monopolistic position of the Union.
OP f stop 25 | 2,513
13 Jul 2012 #10
From the link below (that I could only get through the beginnings of), it looks like the power of these allotment garden owners union, PZD, was summarily taken away, and given back to gminy (local governments).

The link is the actual website of the union's (PZD), so you'd think they would list the actual 20 regulations that were stricken, but I can't find them anywhere.

Although it is said that these changes should not affect the gardeners directly, they are worried that this would make it easier for the governments to take these gardens back and sell them for profit.

So, the new allotment agreement, specifying the terms, such as time and fees will have to be signed with local governments, such as municipality etc., not the Union, which up to now assigned fees and protected members.There was no time limit on the right to use it, and, in a rare event that one garden was liquidated, another one would be assigned. Also, the fees assigned, supposedly did not reflect the cost of the land (location).

That said, I'm amazed that this union had so much power.
So now, it looks like these garden 'owners' will have to get more involved in their local governments, or their gardens will be sold to developers.

pzd.pl/artykuly/7424/125/Czy-rzeczywiscie-dzialkowcy-niczego-nie-stracili-w-Trybunale.html
delphiandomine 83 | 17,771
13 Jul 2012 #11
So now, it looks like these garden 'owners' will have to get more involved in their local governments, or their gardens will be sold to developers.

Or - what's more likely, given that the local gminas are quite poor (especially in the big cities) - they'll be privatised. People will get to buy them at not-quite-market rate and everyone will be happy.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
13 Jul 2012 #12
It's difficult to determine which side is right or wrong in the działki di8spute,but one thing is certain: whowever is in charge the biggest threat is that these gardens will be bulldozed away to make way for mrorec parks? Not on youulife!!! For more deverloperskie bajerantowce -- more concrete, asphalt,glass, stainless steels, more civilisation and less nature. It is the influential develeopers' lobby that are greedily eyeng all that 'undeveloped' land and calculating how many złotys can be squeezed out of it.
OP f stop 25 | 2,513
13 Jul 2012 #13
mrorec parks?

I don't understand.. what kind of parks are those?

Or - what's more likely, given that the local gminas are quite poor (especially in the big cities) - they'll be privatised. People will get to buy them at not-quite-market rate and everyone will be happy.

They still have to watch out - the developers could pay more
Harry
13 Jul 2012 #14
A guy I know bought one last month in Mokotow (southern Warsaw). 50,000zl.
OP f stop 25 | 2,513
13 Jul 2012 #15
It would be interesting to find out what he actually bought. From what I understand, if we're talking about dzialki ogrodowe, you don't own that land.
jon357 63 | 14,255
13 Jul 2012 #16
You own a special sort of lease. A right to use the plot with restrictions.
rybnik 18 | 1,462
13 Jul 2012 #17
along with the de-facto monopolistic position of the Union.

Please explain this "monopolistic" position Delph.
Thanks
delphiandomine 83 | 17,771
13 Jul 2012 #18
It is the influential develeopers' lobby that are greedily eyeng all that 'undeveloped' land and calculating how many złotys can be squeezed out of it.

All the signs point at the gminas being far more interested than developers right now. Given that the big cities have (allegedly) a lot of concealed debts, it's no surprise that they want their hands on the land.

They still have to watch out - the developers could pay more

They could, but it's not likely - they would face far too much trouble to evict the current tenants.

Please explain this "monopolistic" position Delph.

Essentially - this union had the right to administrate such gardens. That no longer exists, so other unions can now administrate them too.
OP f stop 25 | 2,513
14 Jul 2012 #19
I thought about the feasability of starting something like this. A community garden we would call it at first, but give everyone their own little piece of land so they could compete. But Americans would not even CONSIDER it without running water, bathroom, and electricity.

Polish działki are really cool, and worth fighting for.
And they should stay in hands of gardeners.
jon357 63 | 14,255
14 Jul 2012 #20
They have running water, electricity, toilets, etc and people fit showers.

I too think they should stay in the hands of the gardeners. Have you heard of 'guerilla gardening'? Very new to Poland, as far as I know only in Warsaw.
OP f stop 25 | 2,513
14 Jul 2012 #21
Have you heard of 'guerilla gardening'?

I think that's what I had in mind, if I'm guessing the meaning correctly. Gardening an uncared-for piece of land.
rompstar
28 Jun 2015 #22
My mother has a dzialka outside of Warsaw, she is getting old and wants to sell it, does anyone know where the market is for selling these types ? she has all the legal paper work from the very efficient Polish courts (that's a joke by the way)... :- )

Ray
jon357 63 | 14,255
28 Jun 2015 #23
a dzialka

Is it the type on an estate of similar dzialki, administered by a club or society? If so, the club should be your first call since they often know of people who want one. Or PM me, since I'm looking for one near the city.

If it's the type of dzialka that's independent of any club, basically a plot of land maybe with a building on, try any local estate agent or an ad in Gazeta Wyborcza.

For both types, you can advertise on Gumtree Warsaw.
Coop 1 | 26
18 May 2019 #24
Merged:

Having a garden on "budowlana" land in Poland



I've read that one can have a garden (i'm talking about vegetables) a coop and so on ONLY on agricultural land. And that Poles hide their garden beds with tomatoes etc. behind the house. The penalty for this is huge fine/

Is this true and there's such law?
If it's true - how strictly this law observes?
pawian 161 | 9,971
18 May 2019 #25
Who told you that? This is Poland, not Russia or Belarus. :):) I have never heard about any such restrictions. To make sure, I googled: is it allowed to grow veg on construction allotment? and nothing.

Grow whatever you can. If Poles hide veg patches in back gardens, it is because they would look stupid in front, let alone absorb pollution from the nearby street. :)
Coop 1 | 26
18 May 2019 #26
@pawian
Thanks for your opinion and answer!
If I only speak Polish, I'd search this in polish... I'm not sure this topic discussed in English much... As for source of that "rumor", I'll ask the guy who told me so (he's from Belarus btw, hehe) to give me some proves...


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