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Banks in Poland selling fewer mortgages in 2011, down 49%


teflcat 5 | 1,032
23 Oct 2011 #31
We have owned two houses in Poland that required mortgages and neither time did we go through the hassle you described.

I'm glad to hear it. Perhaps the newer banks are better than the old sharks we tried.

When we bought our second place there was a long waiting time before we got approved- the bank went through all of mine and husbands financial details with a microscope.

Same here. Tax, insurance, land registry, bank records, courts, etc. I half expected a strip search.
LwowskaKrakow 28 | 431
23 Oct 2011 #32
You can't compare the two - Krakow doesn't have the same problems that Berlin has. Young people in Poland often move to Krakow to work - with Berlin, they move away.

OK Delphi but i could also have said that Krakow is more expensive than Montpellier,France or Firenze, Italy ,Budapest ,Prague.
I understand the attraction of Krakow and young people moving in for their studies but it is not that economically dynamic compared to Warsaw, it would be interesting to compare the Warsowian and Krakowians 'income and the city of Krakow is also in huge deficit.

So we hunkered down and took a bit longer to build. For me banks are simply usurers.

Typically Commercial Banks( not brokers ) that provide mortgages will ask that you "domiciliate" your salaries in the bank which issued you the home mortgage and push you to leave your regular bank ! That' s how they get new customers .( you speak about beeing morally wrong but i have never heard of a bank beeing morally right, they are all greedy )

So teflcat what did you do ? Where did you get your mortgage ?
teflcat 5 | 1,032
23 Oct 2011 #33
So teflcat what did you do ? Where did you get your mortgage ?

We didn't get a mortgage. I borrowed about 50k from my own bank as a personal loan and took a year longer building. Next March I'll make the final payment. Then we might consider out first holiday in six years.
LwowskaKrakow 28 | 431
23 Oct 2011 #34
Wow excellent, your house will be paid off next year ?
When you say that you and your wife had no holiday for 6 years because of your house you mean no holiday at all for 6 years ?!!!

you mean no holiday abroad or you mean you had to work every single day ?
I think that the only people who work 7 days out of 7 are farmers, anyway you both were very brave.
pip 10 | 1,661
23 Oct 2011 #35
Same here. Tax, insurance, land registry, bank records, courts, etc. I half expected a strip search.

in our house this was lovingly coined "the rectal exam"
teflcat 5 | 1,032
23 Oct 2011 #36
Yep, all paid off. The last 'holiday' we had was two days in Lublin years and years ago. A three-day trip to London for a funeral doesn't count in my book! I work pretty hard (twelve days straight before yesterday) but I like that. Just now I'm avoiding spending my entire Sunday proofreading a boring paper on management, which will be followed by a slightly less boring paper on bison poo. Better get back to work.
wielki pan 2 | 250
23 Oct 2011 #37
"It is expected that this summer (or even by late autumn), the government will pass a new act granting families financial support for buying a house."

I wonder how much? The governments has been promising a lot, I suppose this will be funded by the EU...
delphiandomine 83 | 17,912
23 Oct 2011 #38
we have a mortgage with mbank- we didn't go through this hassle at all.

Likewise - I got mine not so long ago with ING and didn't have any such hassle. But it was just a straightforward purchase of an existing property - so we're comparing apples and oranges really.

I'm glad to hear it. Perhaps the newer banks are better than the old sharks we tried.

I really had no issue whatsoever - about the only bad "condition" is that overpayments must be 2x minimum. But I can pay the whole thing off as fast as I want (I'm trying to make 2x repayments every month) and there's no conditions attached to this. Approval took less than a week, too - which stunned them too, to be fair.

As for accounts - my wife already has an account with them, and I've switched my personal account to them because of the good service, not because of any obligation to do so. I'm not even required to move the "zameldowanie".
rt3d 10 | 46
24 Oct 2011 #39
so delphiandomine, what was you initial down payment
could you break down all costs..and bank fees
OP peterweg 36 | 2,317
24 Oct 2011 #40
The market will always adapt, but, at the end of the day, profit still has to be made.

Assuming property is built, it perfectly that building will be unprofitable.

Here are the reasons why I refused the offer of a mortgage a few years ago. My wife and I had applied for a loan to carry out the second stage of building our house, and had been granted 110 000PLN, to be paid in two tranches.

You applied for a loan to build a house. Give the complete lack of security from you for this loan, I'm not surprised they set strict conditions. You could have simply take the money and ran and what would they have left? a empty space?
teflcat 5 | 1,032
24 Oct 2011 #41
You applied for a loan to build a house. Give the complete lack of security from you for this loan, I'm not surprised they set strict conditions. You could have simply take the money and ran and what would they have left? a empty space?

As I said, the loan was for the second stage of building. The house was up, with internal walls and a roof, plus 4600m2 of land. All worth more than the loan.
Avalon 4 | 1,068
24 Oct 2011 #42
Assuming property is built, it perfectly that building will be unprofitable.

Sorry I only speak English and Spanish.
OP peterweg 36 | 2,317
24 Oct 2011 #43
Sorry.

Assuming property is built, it perfectly feasible that building will be unprofitable.

Hence there is no new building because its unprofitable to do so.

As I said, the loan was for the second stage of building. The house was up, with internal walls and a roof, plus 4600m2 of land. All worth more than the loan.

Maybe Avalon can tell you if those sort of terms are normal for what is, effectively, development work.
Avalon 4 | 1,068
24 Oct 2011 #44
Hence there is no new building because its unprofitable to do so.

Would you care to ask the other members if there are buildings going up in their vicinity, I know they are in my town. I seem to remember somebody saying the other day that there was a huge amount of new building works in Wroclaw? Perhaps you live in a quite area? I mean, normally, there is not a lot of development around a farm, and did you not say that they were going to soon put a new road next to your land?

Maybe Avalon can tell you if those sort of terms are normal for what is, effectively, development work.

I actually do the same, use 50% of my money first and then 50% from the bank. Although, it is usual for the bank to take a 100% charge on the land/property.
pip 10 | 1,661
24 Oct 2011 #45
new home construction hasn't slowed- not in Warsaw.
Wroclaw 44 | 5,387
24 Oct 2011 #46
here in wroclaw: it might be difficult to say exactly how much building is going on. the reason is that the size of individual projects is never the same.

i would argue that many developments are much bigger than they once were: angel wings would be an example of large. however, the building i posted a photo of (somewhere on the forum) is quite small.

Also, we have sky tower, which is almost complete... and odra tower, which is at about third floor level and climbing. these two examples show that the future looks bright for someone.
Avalon 4 | 1,068
24 Oct 2011 #47
these two examples show that the future looks bright for someone.

Not according to Milky and peterweg, but what do we know, we only have our eyes and common sense to guide us.
milky 13 | 1,657
24 Oct 2011 #48
these two examples show that the future looks bright for someone.

Maybe, for the people who get to buy them for 50% less................
Wroclaw 44 | 5,387
24 Oct 2011 #49
odra tower:

prices from 6,758 to 15,500 brutto zl/sq meter

as of 2011-10-23

completion date is set for next year. i say that's doubtful as there are about another 15 floors to go before topping out.

u say the price will drop to 3,379 - 7,750 brutto zl/sq meter.

being polite as possible: i say you're nuts to think the price will drop 50%

upon final completion we will check the selling price. and then, one year later we'll do the same again. do u agree ?

copy this post for reference.
wielki pan 2 | 250
25 Oct 2011 #50
prices from 6,758 to 15,500 brutto zl/sq meter

Lets just see how fast these properties sell Mr Moderator...will they still be for sale in 2years time? you wouldn't like to put a little wager on it?
Wroclaw 44 | 5,387
25 Oct 2011 #51
i won't put a wager on it because i'm 100% sure that not all of them will sell within two years.

my point is about a 50% drop in prices. nothing else
wielki pan 2 | 250
25 Oct 2011 #52
what a shame, I was counting my winnings already... 50% I don't know, certainly not across the board...One thing is for certain is the current economic crisis in the EU is not good and could be a wild card in what happens with the real estate market... I don't think banks will be lending money to people on moderate income in poland to purchase apartments at 600,000zl. If a recession new hits Europe, Poland will not be buffered from it... one can only expect the worse.
PWEI 3 | 612
25 Oct 2011 #53
you wouldn't like to put a little wager on it?

If you're a betting man, you can accept the bet which Mark weaseled his way out of and which cms has gone all quiet about. It's on pages one and two of this thread.
OP peterweg 36 | 2,317
25 Oct 2011 #54
Would you care to ask the other members if there are buildings going up in their vicinity, I know they are in my town. I seem to remember somebody saying the other day that there was a huge amount of new building works in Wroclaw?

You are very sensitive aren't you? I was simply pointing out that building will can stop if it is not profitable. From what you are implying, falling sales prices do indicate that the costs to build are still less than the sales price, so we have a long way to go before that happens.

Perhaps you live in a quite area? I mean, normally, there is not a lot of development around a farm, and did you not say that they were going to soon put a new road next to your land?

For the record I am agreement with you that there is potential upside for new building and sales due to the inherent demand and availability of cash from the parents. All I know if the world banking economy says lending will go down and prices with, when it stops, nobody knows. I will care in 5years.
Avalon 4 | 1,068
25 Oct 2011 #55
Hence there is no new building because its unprofitable to do so.

You made a statement which is totally false, there are plenty of new properties being built and more in the pipeline, check the real estate section of the WBJ.

You are very sensitive aren't you? I was simply pointing out that building will can stop if it is not profitable.

I am sensitive to BS. If you bothered to read previous posts you will see that I have been stating that if prices were to fall even by 30%, developers would stop building or do you think that these people do not research their market. If the banks stop lending, it will be more than the property market that suffers, no business expansion, no growth, less jobs, very unhappy people, social unrest.
pip 10 | 1,661
25 Oct 2011 #56
building will not slow down- all of the people that have purchased bachelors to get into the market, will get married and have kids....therefore....you figure it out.
rt3d 10 | 46
25 Oct 2011 #57
One thing is for certain is the current economic crisis in the EU is not good and could be a wild card in what happens with the real estate market.

If a recession hit Europe, because of the current economic crisis in the EU
the real estate market will be hit proprieties will be cheaper "TIME TO BUY" Wayyyy..
if you have funds.. but
banks in poland may not lend, Most of the banks in Poland are foreign owned
as banks may sell off all assets in poland to pay for
debts back home
wielki pan 2 | 250
26 Oct 2011 #58
"TIME TO BUY" Wayyyy..if you have funds.. but

Money is king in times of recession, I suppose those who are forced to sell will loose, the others will hold till the good times reappear, at any rate just look what happened to real estate in Ireland and Spain.
milky 13 | 1,657
27 Oct 2011 #59
wielki pan
Different situation in Ireland. Irish property and wages were in a bubble,in Poland completely different...

I have always maintained that the current property bubble in Poland is driven by Poles working in the West, and by easy access to cheap money . There are about 7.6 million Poles between the age of 24 and 39. This is the main age category for purchasing property(and emigrating). How many(3,4million??) Poles are working abroad, either seasonal or permanently?? I reckon wages in Zloty (are)were a minority of the property purchasing power between 2004-2008, and even now.
pip 10 | 1,661
27 Oct 2011 #60
there is no property bubble in Poland- why is this so hard for you to get. No matter how many times you say it- doesn't make it true.


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