Poland's apartment prices continue to fall

Do you mean the ones that Peterweg said would "last another 200 years" or the 1,000.000. properties that Milky states are standing empty.

I suspect you mean these :-

Most of the infrastructure of the blocks, be they strict microrayon groups, regular patterned groups or in haphazard arrangements depending on local geography, was constructed with generally low quality from water pipes and sewage to insulation and roof. The EAUE notes, "Most of the buildings have defects in the concrete slab construction and often the damage is irreparable. In addition, the areas are suffering from monotonous architecture and a lack of neighborhood contacts."[15] The first observation is physical in nature, the second psychological.

The physical problems with the buildings today are numberless: poor insulation on windows and in the buildings in general, the outside scraping off, poor plumbing and heating, disputes over ownership (and responsibility) of the common areas, small size of rooms and distance from amenities. The other imposing physical problem is that they are still occupied by residents as before the changes.[18] Poland and the entire former Warsaw Pact world faces interminable housing shortages, especially in the major cities. Ironically, Warsaw itself actually has more blocks of flats being built on the horizon, this time by capitalist developers, than it has destruction of old ones.[19]

Written 2006 but still relevant. Full artical here:-
hudsonfla.com/flats.htm

Spot on. Most of Polands housing was sold at dirt cheap prices and followed by huge inflation to wipe out the debt. Think 20K for a apartment worth 450k pln now. Asset rich families and as a consequence Poland's total mortgage debt is very low.

Most of this housing was in cities, where foreigners can buy and prices rises are greatest. In the country property can still be very cheap but foreigners cannot buy (easily) over a certain amount of land until after 2016.


Some point far in the future. A whole generation will inherit property or be funded to buy/build their own. Meanwhile, wages rise to match (falling) property costs.


I bought a farm (with a personal bank loan, which is nearly paid off) and gave it to my wife.

Record high discounts, demand low
Apartments on the secondary market are selling the slowest in the past three years.
That's despite the fact that owners are lowering prices. An apartment on the secondary
market is listed for an average of 168 days, i.e. close to half a year. That's the longest
since Home Broker launched its market studies in January 2009. In May the listing
time lengthened to 26 days despite additional discounts that became available during
that month. The gap between the transaction and offering price in case of apartments
has increased in the last couple of weeks to 7.2 percent from 4.5 percent in the period
from January to April.
(Rzeczpospolita, p. B1) AS

A drop of 2.7% in two weeks, at that rate of decline, I will buy 10 at Christmas and rent them out.

Go to any clothes shop in a mall. Year round sales....70% off!!!!!..70% off of what? the material cost?..the production cost?.the wholesalers cost?...the retailers cost? you add a sum on to what you will accept and use that as a bargaining tool, knowing the buyer will try to knock you down, especially in Poland. The buyer thinks they have a good deal and you get the price you want.

Take a development company, the business plan will allow for a contingency sum of say 10% for unforeseen costs on the project. If this sum is used you never did your calculations properly or you were unlucky. If you run the project properly, keep to a tight budget and do not use the 10% you can afford to give a discount on your flats and the profit margin remains the same.

There are significant differences between buying property and consumables like clothes. First, houses last longer than people - you only need one and they last a life time. Consumables are transportable, trade-able and can be manufactured where labour costs are lowest and using - mainly - replaceable/renewable materials (cotton, wool).

Fixed assets like property are fixed in place, cannot me transported and are entirely dependable on the value of the land they stand on. Nobody give a flying **** what you costs are as a developer, you usually make a profit but if you do or don't it has no bearing on the cost of the fixed assets which is set by location for a given building specification.

You should know this, everybody else does.

Again, you are very quick to jump in and give a negative comment without understanding what was said. My post refers to "what a % discount means". The figures used for any item can be manipulated. It can be raised so that any % reduction, looks greater than it really is. You are correct that consumables such as clothes are different from fixed assets such as houses or flats. But, do you know the "mark up" on clothes is around 200-300 %. so, taking this amount "70%" off, still leaves the retailer with a profit, even if the stock is out of fashion.


Not quite true. If I put a wooden shed on 40 aras of land (cost of land 180,000 PLN) the value would be 185,000 PLN, if I build 12 apartments on the land, the value goes up to 3 million PLN. Even obtaining planning permission would virtually, double the value of the land. You should know this, everybody else does.


Apart from the fact that your grammar is s*** again ("you costs", must be that university education), where did I mention anything about my costs?

While you are questioning me, lets look at this post of yours.


The statement you made here is untrue and misleading.
You could not buy a farm in your name as it is agricultural land, it would have to have been purchased in your wife's name. As a student nurse, her 500 per month salary would have excluded her from a mortgage, hence the need for you to take out a personal loan.

Your post 0n January 18th this year, " Is this Mortgage Equity Withdrawal? Anyonego any (must be that university education) links to banks that offer this and the Polish terminology?" suggests that you think that you might be able to raise money on the "reverse equity scheme" proposed by the government/banks. Not possible for the same reasons you would not get a mortgage.

The monthly loan you pay on the "farm" (even if you are not living there) is an outgoing which you failed to mention to FUZZYWICKETS when replying to his question of how much your monthly mortgage cost, you only mentioned "is all that we pay, its about 450pln per month. Mostly the building repair fund (outside to be re-clad next year)". So this monthly payment (although you live in your wife's flat in Krakow) should be included as a cost for you living in Poland.

At least I do not lie in my posts. Your inexperience in most subjects shows. The old adage " It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt" maybe something you should consider.To lie well, you need a good memory.

****** browser based spell check doesn't have a grammar checker, sorry.


If its in the middle of nowhere you can build 12 apartments but won't be able to sell them, you can build apartment only where you can sell them. So the value of the apartments is their locationnot the materialsthey are built from. Hence the term 'Fixed Assets' so



Obviously you think this is significant.



How is it a 'cost of living' in Poland -I don't live there and it has no bearing on my life.. Its an investment. I could sell it, pay off the 30% debt and bank the money. Does the 7% interest I would then receive from the banked money be a cost which I could negate my rent?

You have a very strange understanding of money.


I'm not lying, You simply don't understand. You fail to grasp maths, the concept of assets and the difference between income and costs.

Again untrue. I built a block of apartments in the countryside where no developer had ever built. They sold. Check with SeanBM for confirmation, he visited the site during construction.


And yet you do not refute this:

The statement you made here is untrue and misleading.
You could not buy a farm in your name as it is agricultural land, it would have to have been purchased in your wife's name. As a student nurse, her 500 per month salary would have excluded her from a mortgage, hence the need for you to take out a personal loan.

Perhaps just being economical with the truth.


Adjacent to three lakes and a huge forest, 10 minute drive to town, nice position. Polish bank financed 50% of the build, obviously they are such not as expert on property as you. Polish banks usually take a hell of a risk when lending. Stick to software and an office, leave property alone, you would never make a living at it.

I saved all that typing and said I gave it to her. I gave her the money so she bought it. No difference. I could have bought if I applied for a license and/obtained citizenship as I'm entitled.


You built three lakes and planted a forest, impressive.

There is a difference, you did not buy it and do not own it. "oh what a tangled web we weave when err we practice to deceive"


Do you know what the word "adjacent" means? or are you really that stupid? Where did I say I built three lakes and a forest?

As I said before, you make yourself look a prcik with every post.

I didn't say I owned it -


Difference to who? I said I gave it to my wife, bought it for her, its hers, we are married. I paid for it. What the **** difference does the fact I gave her the money to buy it as opposed to buying it and giving her the farm. She owns it, I don't so what are you babbling about?

Add inability to comprehend ownership to your list.


Stillnot figured out the concept of Fixed Assets versus commodities.

Where did I say I built three lakes and a forest?

You never answer a question, do you? You write garbage and act like a child when you are caught out.

You still don't get it.

Me neither. Please do tell us where Avalon said he built three lakes and planted a forest. Then tell us how you bought a farm when you are not legally able to do that.

Wrong questions. Try again.

OK, Where did I say I built three lakes and a forest?

Thats the point.,The land came with that asset, not your building materials. Without the fixed asset of the land the building materials can be worthless. You cannot commoditise property because its worth is defined by its location.

So you cannot discuss the costs of building and claim you would not sell below cost because the selling price is determined by location not your cost. If its in a worthless location, its worthless, no matter how much it cost to build.

still talking out of your backside i see weg, im still laughing about the Gdynia ia a godforsaken town one, classic.


Whats even funnier is that he zoomed in on the map and placed a street view link, and still didnt figure it out.....

You have no knowledge about property development/building, as demonstrated by your replies.

With your post stating that the old communist blocks would last 200 years you proved your ignorance. Even when I posted a report from a respected, Polish researcher stating that most of these tower blocks were constructed with defective materials and were repairable, you still could not man-up and admit you were wrong again. You are a child who thinks he knows everything and you act like it.

Ok, change the subject. Stay to the subject you understand - gluing bricks together - and keep away from the things you don't - such as how or why people buy them.


No, son, you are still sulking over being made to look a dickhead.

Really harry are you really not that brilliant or age has got you?One can get permission to buy a farm in Poland!

Really Mr D? The problem in this case is that peterweg didn't bother to get it. Go back to trying to illegally sell dodgy cars which do not belong to you.

You are the one who is not brilliant. Peterweg stated "I bought a farm and gave it to my wife", this is a lie as being a foreigner, he could buy farmland. Admittedly

he could have obtained permission to buy it himself, but that is not what he stated. For someone that does not even own any property in Poland he seems to not know an awful lot about it. He is very quick to start arguments and be pedantic with others on subjects of which he has no knowledge and when proven wrong, simply changes the subject or gets abusive. Typical childish behaviour. Remember, with age comes wisdom.

Calm down! Sorry if I sold you a junk car:)Shouldve checked car fax:)BTW,Prices are falling try to get a Flat in a building with an elevator!Maybe a house if you can afford it!Betya Pln weak dont matter as you work in Poland:))

Interesting fantasy. Why would I have to 'bother' when I didn't buy it? And here you go, yet another ad hominem attack when your bullshit is challenged


Admittedly you guys are clutching at straws.

Please differentiate between buying a house and giving it to you wife and giving the money to your wife to buy a house. I could have also become a citizen as I'm entitled to through my father and waited the six months.

Please harry and Avalon, explain the difference between giving the money to buy and buying it myself and giving it.


Yes, thats a very sage .


Owning property will increase my intelligence. My name on the deed, if spelt correctly will increase my IQ ten fold.. Got it. Without it, I am utterly clueless.

Are you sure that you went to University?

I do wish you'd make your mind up about whether you bought a farm or not, only two days ago you told us


But now you tell us that you didn't buy it.


More than a few foreigners have learned to their cost the very large difference between not having their name on the title deeds of their wife's property which was bought with their money and having their name on the title deeds.

I give my child pocket money to buy sweets, I do not say they are mine after she buys them.

How is that done in Poland, actually?? I have often thought it may be a good idea and was looking at agricultural land in the UK about 5 years ago when it was affordable. I thought no foreigners were allowed to buy ag land/farms until 2016.

You need a license/permit. Identify the land and apply, it can be very slow.


You are very impressed by the thought of University education aren't you.



You two are are getting confused about this. Buying something for someone or giving them the money to buy it themselves is the same thing. Especially when you give it to your wife and teh hand over of moeny/keys is done within a few minutes.