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Polonia outraged by EU interference


OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
15 Jan 2016 #61
benefits the EU

HERE IS THE TAKE OF A GREEK WRITER WITH POLISH ROOTS:
All the Polish people must stand united against the ruthless, heartless bureaucrats, the so-called Eurocrats.
We (ordinary citizens) are dealing with a 'Fourth Reich' (controlled by the big banks and large corporations), run by a Soviet style politbureau, the European Commission.

However, there is hope. The Hungary of Orban has showed the way for a new Europe of good old Western values. Poland must not kneel.

Read how the EC blackmails Poland!

currenteventspoland.com/analysis/European-Commission-blackmails-Poland.html
jon357 63 | 14,255
15 Jan 2016 #62
Yes, they are supposed to belong to the nation, not to the government

And this is something that PiS loathe.

When it's all over and PiS are consigned to the dustbin of history where they belong, people will look back and wonder how it ever happened. And the EU (in which Poland plays a strong role) will come out of this well.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
15 Jan 2016 #63
EU (in which Poland plays a strong role)

Without PiS at the helm the EU will try to keep Poland in a state of permanent "Deutschland über Alles" subjugation.
jon357 63 | 14,255
15 Jan 2016 #64
That comment would surprise anyone who actually lives in the real world.

PiS at the helm

They aren't "at the helm" now; in fact they're barely treading water.

As for your unworthy "Deutschand über alles" comment; the EU (far more than just Germany) haven't done that before and have no reason to do so now.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
15 Jan 2016 #65
the dustbin of history

If that is true, then PiS will have to say: Move over PO and make some room for us. You, Petru, PSL and KOD have already been here for 20-some years.
jon357 63 | 14,255
15 Jan 2016 #66
If being very successfully (unlike PiS) in office counts as a dustbin (and there's no shortage of rubbish in politics here) then maybe. PiS however have so far made nothing but mistakes, some of them so serious that the international community is now reluctantly involved.
kpc21 1 | 763
15 Jan 2016 #67
They are trying to destabilize the polish DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED government.

Do you mean that democracy refers only to the elections, and then the politicians are allowed to do whatever they want?

Blocking the operation of the institution responsible for checking if the constitution is obeyed, or introducing censorship in the media (even only in the public, or national, media) has nothing in common with democracy.

And yes, the previous goverment was also doing a lot against democracy. But they weren't doing it in such an explicit way, as PiS does. Maybe it's good, now people really see what has been happening and what is happening.

most psychologically healthy populations dislike what they see as outside interference and tend to support a local government (even an unpopular one) when it's perceived as being attacked form outside.

That's true. An important issue to take into account is also that Poland has very bad historical experience with such "interventions" of external factors.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
15 Jan 2016 #68
Blocking the operation of the institution responsible for checking if the constitution is obeyed

The PO-PSL regime refused to abide by a slew of TK rulings on unconstitutional Platformer measures and are now hypocritically defending "democracy" and the very body they totally ignored.

Where where the Kijowskis and Petrus last year? No-one heard a peep or whimper out of that lot and now they're loud-mouthing on the small screen on a daily basis. That's called HYPOCRISY (upper case)!
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
15 Jan 2016 #69
institution responsible for checking if the constitution is obeyed

You know what one of the countries that bark about it so loud is doing at the same time ?

censorship in the media

Nonsense.

But they weren't doing it in such...

They got their asses covered by the mainstream media and EUnuchs - for selling Polish national interest.
kpc21 1 | 763
15 Jan 2016 #70
The PO-PSL regime refused to abide by a slew of TK rulings on unconstitutional Platformer measures and are now hypocritically defending "democracy" and the very body they totally ignored.

Was PiS defending democracy that times?

What did they do when PO was increasing VAT? What did they do when PO took the money out from the open pension funds and moved them to the state ZUS? Did they organize any demonstration about anything concerning normal citizens?

Nonsense.

Nonsense, when even asking questions (questions uncomfortable for the interviewed one) while making an interview (!) is considered something bad? And when journalists are getting instructions about what they can talk and about what they cannot talk? And when suddenly most of them gets fired from the TV and the radio?
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
15 Jan 2016 #71
Nonsense. The guy running TVP in 2010-15 went there straight out of PO's government and...

gets fired from the TV and the radio

...those guys replaced several years ago their colleagues, who were fired by the previous regime. That's what happens here after every political change, like it or not. And that's still not any "censorship in the media" as 90% of the media market is not controlled by the state in any way.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,771
15 Jan 2016 #72
That's what happens here after every political change, like it or not.

Look at Greggy justifying firing a young mother from her job because of political change.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
15 Jan 2016 #73
PO was increasing VAT and took the money out from the open pension funds

PiS loudly protested in both cases. They forecfully reminded Poles that Tusk had pledged no tax increases and then hiked VAT to 23%. Then he pulled a heist in broad daylight on OFE. PiS protested but in a civlised way without instigating noisy street protests.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,771
15 Jan 2016 #74
PiS loudly protested in both cases.

And now they're increasing taxes left/right/centre while also cancelling PO's planned VAT cut in 2017.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
15 Jan 2016 #75
current despised minority regime

No-one is more despied than Komorowski and the happily now defunct PO regime. You must ciruclate in some niche-type mutual adoration society and haev little daily contact with normal, ordinary Poles.
Librarius - | 91
15 Jan 2016 #76
consigned to the dustbin of history where they belong

Leon Trotsky referring to the Mensheviks: You are pitiful, isolated individuals! You are bankrupts. Your role is played out. Go where you belong from now on - into the dustbin of history! (25 October 1917)

U.S. President Ronald Reagan: freedom and democracy will leave Marxism and Leninism on the ash heap of history as it has left other tyrannies (a speech to the British House of Commons; 8 June 1982)

You sound more like Trotsky than Reagan.
Crow 137 | 7,756
16 Jan 2016 #77
Now when Polish diaspora see how it looks like when EU interfere in internal affairs of sovereign countries, i would like to remind auditorium that EU actually doing that all the time. Look what EU done in Ukraine. Look what EU done first in Yugoslavia- when EU helicopter directly conflicted with federal Yugoslavian military airplane (what effectively started conflict in back then Yugoslavia) and, then in Serbia- when EU directly took part in partition of one sovereign country. After all, look how EU orchestrate sanctions against Russia and refugee crisis.

Poles, my sisters and brothers, its all nothing. They coming. They just started. Expect many more nice things to come. But, don`t blame them. Blame us. We are all to be blamed for we accepting all that just as one sheep accepts its destine.
kpc21 1 | 763
16 Jan 2016 #78
And that's still not any "censorship in the media" as 90% of the media market is not controlled by the state in any way.

I have said that it's about the public vel. national (how PiS calls them) media. Luckily, there are still some that are not controlled by the state.

Yes, it's normal that something like that happens after a political change, but absolutely not to such an extent. Look at Piotr Kraśko, until now the main face of Wiadomości (The News, the main news report on the public TV first channel). He began his career at TVP and he has always, from the childhood, been working for them. In the times of SLD, PiS and PO. From 2005 to 2008 - the correspondent in the USA. Then he moved to Wiadomości.

They fired almost all the people, and some people to replace them has been taken from... conspiracy-theory web portals. Ones having connections with PiS, of course.

By the way. Today's Wiadomości. About the decrease of the credit ratings for Poland, which is in fact the main news of the day, they said... one quickly said sentence (!) in the middle of the programme. Not even mentioning that the exchange rates of foreign currencies, as a result, immediately jumped up. Euro from below 4,40 zł to almost 4,50 zł. Didn't they have time to prepare a news material on that? They had still a few hours. And even without much preparation they could just say more than a single sentence.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
16 Jan 2016 #79
Look at Piotr Kraśko, until now the main face of Wiadomości

Not only the main face but (since 2012) a head of wiadomości, so basically one of several most important positions in the whole TVP therefore it's not surprising they decided to change him, the new guy will be changed by the next gov too, worry not about it.

I haven't been watching TV since years so can't say about details but:
1. The changes don't seem to be anything else than what previous govs were doing.
2. Looking at Europe, censorship in Germany, or that old clown in Italy that is both active in politics and owns half of TV channels, I don't think that Poland looks particularly bad in this area.

Therefore all the screaming of both domestic and european "democrats" has much more to do with Germany/EU trying to destroy independent states in the EU and local thieves trying to get back to business than with "defending democracy".

Luckily, there are still some that are not controlled by the state.

Yeah, "some" is 90% of them. Like I said before, the government making the public media too biased is just shooting itself in the foot. Personally I would just shut down that whole mess.
kpc21 1 | 763
16 Jan 2016 #80
Yeah, "some" is 90% of them.

And we live in times, when the flow of information is so easy that such methods will simply not work. In the PRL times people, to get any reliable information on what is happening in the country and in the world, had to listen to foreign radio stations (broadcasting also in Polish) on short waves, whose signal was deliberaty distorted by the govenrment using special transmitters. Now you have not only other TV and radio stations, but also the Internet, where you can simply find everything. But it will not be weird if the government wanted to censor everything possible in the near future... But still, especially Polish Internet users are especially sensitive about such things, and such things might simply become impossible to introduce without an outrage in the society.

But my impression is that previously the TVP news were much less biased than they are now. They were always showing all the sides of what is happening. Now - you can see what is up, simply watching the news report and comparing it to what is really happening. Or watching the news reports of TVP (Wiadomości - The News), Polsat (Wydarzenia - The Events) and TVN (Fakty - The Facts), and comparing them.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
16 Jan 2016 #81
But it will not be weird if the government wanted to censor everything possible in the near future...

But my impression is that previously the TVP news were much less biased than they are now.

I don't watch this mess but looking at the 2 quotes above, they likely were biased as hell, just in the direction that you personally approve.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,771
16 Jan 2016 #82
I don't watch this mess

So in other words, you haven't got a clue.

Spending 7 seconds reporting a huge slide in the currency and the downgrading of Poland's credit grading is about as biased as it gets.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
18 Jan 2016 #83
brutal attack against Poland.

Polonia the world over are outraged and incensed by the attack on Poland by the EU and S&P. True to form, always loyal and pro-Polish Polonia have reacted by staging protests outside the UN in New York as well as in Washington, DC, Chicago, Berlin, Paris, London and elsewhere. And coincidentally (?!), PF's anti-Polish expat wing support the KOD/PO/Petru Poland-bashers. Par for the course!
polishinvestor 1 | 362
18 Jan 2016 #84
After the downgrade the finance minister came out and said Polish economy is in good shape with strong funadamentals when only a few weeks ago the "audit" suggested that the previous govermnet had left Poland in terrible shape. So which is it?
Roger5 1 | 1,458
18 Jan 2016 #85
That's funny.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,771
18 Jan 2016 #86
After the downgrade the finance minister came out and said Polish economy is in good shape with strong funadamentals when only a few weeks ago the "audit" suggested that the previous govermnet had left Poland in terrible shape.

It's the usual story with PiS. You're supposed to believe the current line and forget what was said before. Meanwhile, they're taking away attention from the fact that PiS intend to ruin Poland by running up huge debts.

True to form, always loyal and pro-Polish Polonia have reacted by staging protests outside the UN in New York as well as in Washington, DC, Chicago, Berlin, Paris, London and elsewhere.

What Polonius is again failing to mention was that these were organised by the "Gazeta Polska Clubs", which of course is controlled directly by PiS. Strange how he tends to leave out the facts, isn't it?
G (undercover)
18 Jan 2016 #87
Poland by running up huge debts.

You mean 3% of GDP vs 7.9% during POlsheviks ?
polishinvestor 1 | 362
18 Jan 2016 #88
After the post crisis years the deficit has been coming down slowly to around the 3% target. Lets see what happens over the next few years.

The level of intelligence on this forum is truely shocking, but this is nothing compared to the blinkered outdated and thoroughly incorrect views of a number of individuals.
Harry
18 Jan 2016 #89
What Polonius is again failing to mention was that these were organised by the "Gazeta Polska Clubs", which of course is controlled directly by PiS. Strange how he tends to leave out the facts, isn't it?

Most strange how he does that. I keep reading pieces in a certain Polonia publication where the author (one can't really use the word journalist, given what is written in the pieces) leaves out key facts and simply lies about others; such terrible pieces may well explain why the opinions of Polonia are quite often very much out of step with the opinions of Poles. On the plus side, I do see repeated letters to the editor from members of Polonia about the author in question being "guilty of misrepresenting truth" and letter from other readers about how they "truly appreciated" the letters pointing out the errors of letting a fiction writer write news stories.
NocyMrok
18 Jan 2016 #90
Polonia are quite often very much out of step with the opinions of Poles.

Even more so are the foreigners.


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