80 years to the Battle of Moscow!!!

No it is not.

Don`t be so infantile. :)

She lived in a small village. Her grandparent had been killed by the Bolsheviks just because he was an Orthodox priest. Try to survive in those times if you was not shouting slogans about Stalin at the very top of your lungs. In any case, what is wrong with any kind of political views, if these views don't asume using violence against an innocent people. Do you believe she was that bad? Some Catholics did crusades. Some were pacifist.


It may not be principal was she a hero (in this definition) or not. The most important - she became a MARTYR. Basically - an innocent one.

The only thing that is simple here is you.
For equating my hatred of communists as a sign that I am a nazi lover.
I hate them both equally.
They are as bad as each other.

I don't say she was bad. I said that ideolgy that make a martyr out of her is and was bad.

Patriotism?

Recently passions arond Zoya sparked once again as her monument have been desecrated in Kiev.
newcoldwar.org/desecration-kyiv-monument-teenage-ww2-heroine-zoya-kosmodemyanskaya/
City govt. in Kiev hezitates between deporting her monument to the communism musium and keeping it at the old place. Mayor of Kiev Klychko (a former box champion) had to deel with this question in the past.

They should try the Singapore method to prevent future vandalism cases. It works.
Or mine.

From Wikipedia:

After being arrested, Kosmodemyanskaya was stripped, beaten, interrogated and tortured with 200 lashes and her body burnt,[11] but refused to give any information.

From Novichok: I wish the Soviets had nukes in 1945. Especially that mother of all nukes the USSR exploded in 1961. Quoting:

On October 30, 1961, the Soviet Union tested the largest nuclear device ever created. The "Tsar Bomba," as it became known, was 10 times more powerful than all the munitions used during World War II.

Dropping it on Berlin in 1945 would be such a cool way to remind Germans how they mistreated that girl.

Unfortunately, she was just one of many. In many cases tortures were really severe and sexual violense was used. Some of these girls lost there virginity in this manner...

If Soviets wanted to do something like this there would be no need for nuclear bomb. They could just bobm Berlin and other German cities with fire bombs, like Americans did it to Hamburg and Dresden. Or use chemical weapon. Or engineer artificial floods in the cities by destroing dumbs on the rivers. But instead Soviets prefered to sacrifice lives of hundreds of thousands of their soldiers, to save life to millions of German civilians. In 1945 the Alies had total superiority in the air. They could bomb and flatten to the grownd whatever they wanted to.

That is why I never want to hear the crap how bad the Soviets were to the German women in Berlin.


After losing 20 to 30 million of their own? Insanity or part of the conquest?

They believed they could turn Germans into a real friendly comrades. But instead they could organize mass immigration to Germany from USSR... And just replace Germans.


It wasn't an organized genocide or perhaps even war crimes because the later assumes some plan and organization, usually.

But you will. From me, for example.


Those mass rapes were war crimes.

britannica.com/topic/rape-crime/Rape-as-a-weapon-of-war

And rapes were perpetrated by Soviet soldiers not only in Germany, but also in Poland, including in my region.

I'm not an expert in juridical language, but in my understandng it were just a common crimes. I'm not sure that every crime commited during a war should be counted as a war crime. The later term usually is reserved for an organized genocide.

@Vlad1234, not every war crime is a "genocide":

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crime

For example, intentionally killing civillians and prisoners of war is a war crime.


Those mass rapes on German women were tolerated by the Soviet command which, in my opinion, definitely makes them not common crimes, but war crimes. Besides, any rape committed by soldiers during an armed conflict is considered a war crime, just like any intentional killing of an unarmed civillian by a soldier during war is considered a war crime. In the times of peace such murder would be considered a common crime, but during an armed conflict when done by a soldier or some armed militia - it's a war crime. The same with rape.

In Kiev situation is more complicated, because according to recent de-communisation law, all the monuments which are connected to Soviet propaganda has to be demolished. Likely it were ultra-right wing guys who desecrated it.

Of course, they were. It's actually very simple. When Country A invades County B and causes 20 to 30 million deaths, Country A waves all rights to humane treatment after it loses to Country B.

Thus, the USSR acquired the moral right to kill, rape, and harm an equal number of Germans with the same degree of selectivity as Germans applied to them. In this respect, the Soviets displayed extraordinary restrain for the tactical reasons Vlad explained.

Very good. Are you defending Soviet monuments?


the USSR acuired the right to rot in hell for enternity with their scummy apologists on the bottum of the pile.
Got it?
Moral? lol! It was inmoral hell on earth.

Not always. Some soldiers been executed for this. But commandment couldn't fight with their own soldiers when they had to fight with an enemy. I don't believe Soviet commandment was interested to enrage civilians. They expected to make them a friendly comrades in the future.

This is beyond insane. I don't need proof to claim that there were heroes who happened to be members of the communist party. Just like that girl.

In those days, everything was "Soviet", including garbage collectors and coalminers.

Fortunately monuments to soliers who fought in WW II do not fall in the demolished category. Therefore it is troubling what happened to Zoya's monument.

Why not? If that is about Red Army their monuments should be gone, unless Russia like to keep it. Outside Russia they should go!

Ukraine lost at least 16% of its population in this war. Not to count those who could be born but had not. And permanently disabled.

Vlad, you are wasting your time on this clown.

I agree the monuments should stay as they symbolise winnders of the greatest land war human history ever fought - too bad ignorant polaks dont get real history books fro neutral authors like david glantz to read and learn about it and too few read anthony beevor's stalingrad. they choose instead to watch holywood ovies based on USA propaganda from the 60s like enemy at the gates and frauds like viktor suvorov.

Damn right! Good post, Strzelec.


...and hateful

its weird seeing an eastern country with so many institutions similar to russia like its entire education system being the same as it was 30 yrs ago believe american cold war propaganda that americans dont even read or watch anymore.

Who cares what you think? Only scum like you agree.


They lost even more from Stalin.

I'm not sure that more. But in any case soldiers fought to protect their nation, not only Stalin. The most common slogan they wrote on their tank was "For Motherland !". And only more rarely "For Stalin".


Where did you actually take it from it was tolerated? Some links? The most practical aspect when we are talking about war crime definition in my opinion is: "whether we could talk about collective or individual responsibility?" I don't see special reasons to talk about collective responsibility if: 1) It was a defensive war. 2) There was no orders of commandment to commit crimes agains civilians. 4) There is no signs of a deliberate genocide (ethnic, religious, etc.). 3) There was no plan and preplaned organization behind the crimes. 5)Crimes were committed for personal reasons.

Because she was a communist.No better than a nazi.

Some people on here have tried to defend her on the grounds that she was brainwashed.What a pathetic argument!
You could excuse most extremists with that....commies, nazis and islamic exremists......will you excuse the British Muslims that joined Al Queda on those grounds?

As for her age, yes, she was a young adult.
Most countries regard 18 year olds as adults and give them.adult status and adult freedoms.
She made her decisions of her own, adult, free will.
For me, all extremists,be they nazis, commies or islamists that are prepared to kill innocent people because of their faith or ideology are pigs.